El Presidente Trump

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 02:16PM

gosplan wrote:

I don't buy into the whole destabilising the world thing but can anyone explain or offer something?

In times of peace and stability people will push for the best deal possible. Shaking things up a bit means keeping body and soul in tact is a higher priority than in stable times. People are more likely to settle for less if they can get a bit of certainty from a deal.

Threatening to build the nuclear arsenal 'Until the world sees sense' is a great example. It's basically threatening nuclear war on America's enemies -so it's best to make sure you're one of America's friends.

Being critical helps destabilise things as it gets the message across but allows deniability

Without reading back through the thread, has anyone in this thread tried to justify that statement or even claim to know what 'Until the world sees sense' means?

Renegade Mechanic · 28-12-2016 02:18PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately our environmental issues and potential methods of dealing with it have been commandeered by our neoliberal and free market processes, effectively turning them into a profit making industries. this still doesnt give us the right to ignore it, this approach will eventually lead to the demise of our planet and our species. 'the polluter pays' principle shows that our environmental issues have been directed towards the individual, i.e. environmental issues are your problem and your problem alone, and you're gonna pay for it! this is why i believe we should also include 'a creator pays principle' along with the polluter pays, to include all aspects of our environmental issues and how to deal with them.

Or we could just all plonk metal pipes near enough to the earth's mantle to turn the water they're holding into steam without melting the pipes, and drive our turbines off that, powering the circulation system necessary to condense the steam and send it back down faster than ordinary convection, but where's the profit in that, eh!?

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 02:18PM

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Once he gets in he'll start using the press again I'd imagine. As mentioned above the tweet about nukes was pretty dumb, that stuff doesn't belong in the public eye.

What are you on about? That's part of his negotiation. He has nukes as part of his business empire so why not use them as a threat?

Why would you expect him to change when he becomes president? Because you bought the idea that he supports whatever you support?

gosplan · 28-12-2016 02:22PM

Whole scale revisionism of what climate change is, what it means and whether it can be fixed is very worrying.

I don't care if it's Trump calling it a Chinese hoax or someone on the internet just repeating something they read.

It's a big issue and the scientific community really need to be involved rather than dismissed.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 02:30PM

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Out of interest, are unaware and compliant voters low information too?

I'll answer of course but I'd like to know why you asked because it's not obvious to me.

Depends on why they're unaware , ignorance/apathy. If they're unaware and don't vote then they can't be classed as low information voters, can they?

Compliant voters (by which I assume you mean reliable rep/dem voters) are probably a half step more engaged than unaware voters so I'm not sure if they would accurately break down into the type of information they take in.

ebbsy · 28-12-2016 02:45PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Skiddylicker wrote:

Look at how smart the guy has been over the last 50 years too. Belittle him all you want but he has achieved more in his life that anyone on this forum ever has. I believe Trump will prove people wrong again just like he did at the election.

He's not a particularly smart man, not in my eyes, in fact I'd class him as an unintelligent, ignorant loathe. He managed to offend a large portion of society during his campaign, that's not the sign of a good leader in which encouraging social cohesion is a must in trying to rally a society to pull together. His attitude and behaviour has the potential to further divide American society, possibly causing more serious social problems in America and beyond

Social cohesion is **** all use when you can't put food on the table and meanwhile thousands of refugees are flooding in , savaging what resources there are left.

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 02:52PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Social cohesion is **** all use when you can't put food on the table and meanwhile thousands of refugees are flooding in , savaging what resources there are left.

oh god, this bull****, again! are you aware why so many are struggling to feed themselves?? things such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory may have something to do with it causing things such as debt peonage! are you aware that a large amount of global resources are under the control of large corporations and financial institutions? maybe this has something to do with the struggle of most! maybe these issues have not been caused by people from other nations or the unemployed or etc etc etc!!!!! :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 03:05PM

Wanderer78 wrote:

Are you aware why so many are struggling to feed themselves?? things such as neoliberalism and neoclassical theory may have something to do with it causing things such as debt peonage! are you aware that a large amount of global resources are under the control of large corporations and financial institutions? maybe this has something to do with the struggle of most! maybe these issues have not been caused by people from other nations or the unemployed or etc etc etc!!!!!

As far as we know, from trump's record in public life, he has never been opposed to neo-liberalism. I can't see he minimum wage going up any time soon. If trump brings the corporations home there will probably be more jobs available, each with lower wages

Christy42 · 28-12-2016 03:10PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Christy, if officials came out and said "yeah, sorry, we're basically ****ed. We don't need to worry about running out of fossil fuels, because we aren't going to get the chance to do so", what do you think would happen?

That all you have? For one thing the coal and oil companies would be delighted. Somehow they haven't even attempted that tactic.

You want it to be right buy have absolutely nothing outside of your imagination backing you up.

Skullface McGubbin · 28-12-2016 04:17PM

Judging by the reactions to his election victory, the Donald's presidency is going to be the the most besieged one in the 21st century so far.
I don't remember George W. Bush's election win having such a hostile reception from the press and democrat supporters compared to the response Trump has had. From Jill Stein's recount request to the "muh Putin" narrative to the protesters. They really don't want him in charge. And they will still be doing everything they can to undermine his term in office in 2017 and beyond.

2016 has been quite a year and I'll be looking forward to to see what's in store for 2017.

PopePalpatine · 28-12-2016 05:09PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Lol, real racists vote Democrat

Yep, that's why the Democrats came up with the Southern Strategy...oh wait, that was the GOP.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-12-2016 07:33PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sY5u4OnH6Y

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 08:02PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

As far as we know, from trump's record in public life, he has never been opposed to neo-liberalism. I can't see he minimum wage going up any time soon. If trump brings the corporations home there will probably be more jobs available, each with lower wages

id have to completely agree with somebody like fintan o'toole in whats very likely going to happen during trumps presidency, as ive been saying all along, trump probably isnt the danger here, but in fact its probably gonna come from his administration. its very likely gonna mean deregulation in financial matters, row back in environmental policies, etc etc. i think this debate sums it up very well:

https://soundcloud.com/irishtimes-politics/a-look-ahead-to-2017-with-fintan-otoole-una-mullally-pat-leahy

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 08:16PM

Wanderer78 wrote:

id have to completely agree with somebody like fintan o'toole in whats very likely going to happen during trumps presidency, as ive been saying all along, trump probably isnt the danger here, but in fact its probably gonna come from his administration. its very likely gonna mean deregulation in financial matters, row back in environmental policies, etc etc. i think this debate sums it up very well:

I'll listen to the debate later. Cheers.

If you got his cabinet in a room and asked what they wanted for their business, it would be easier access to money to invest and easier access to money for people to buy their products.

Also less restrictions on how and when they can do business. So absolutely less regulation. The Exon mobile guy Rex Tillerson, is like putting the leader of another major country as minister for foreign affairs. He has no time for government interfering in international affairs.

KingBrian2 · 28-12-2016 08:23PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'll listen to the debate later. Cheers.

If you got his cabinet in a room and asked what they wanted for their business, it would be easier access to money to invest and easier access to money for people to buy their products.

Also less restrictions on how and when they can do business. So absolutely less regulation. The Exon mobile guy Rex Tillerson, is like putting the leader of another major country as minister for foreign affairs. He has no time for government interfering in international affairs.

Deregulation is actually good for the poor. The laws are what the extremely rich can squirt around. Those loop holes and what Trump will do about the very wealthy in places like Connecticut and New York is to watch out for. Those discussions he had with Kanye & Gates.

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 08:31PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'll listen to the debate later. Cheers.

If you got his cabinet in a room and asked what they wanted for their business, it would be easier access to money to invest and easier access to money for people to buy their products.

Also less restrictions on how and when they can do business. So absolutely less regulation. The Exon mobile guy Rex Tillerson, is like putting the leader of another major country as minister for foreign affairs. He has no time for government interfering in international affairs.

one of the major causes of the 2008 crash was the decades of deregulation that occurred prior to it. some good measures have been put in place to prevent this from happening again, even though not enough, a row back on these regulations would be disastrous for america and the global economy.

sensible government regulation and intervention is required, we have to ditch this free for all, free market economic nonsense, whereby only a few financially gain but environmentally, everybody loses, amongst other things. i have no faith in his administration to do the right thing for the majority of americans, and also believe they could cause catastrophic damage environmentally not just in america but globally.

HelenV · 28-12-2016 08:35PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He very definitely did divide people

He most certainly did not. The people of the USA were divided long, long before the start of the presidential campaign courtesy of Barack Obama who is leaving behind a trail of destruction.

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 08:38PM

HelenV wrote: »

He most certainly did not. The people of the USA were divided long, long before the start of the presidential campaign courtesy of Barack Obama who is leaving behind a trail of destruction.

it goes way beyond obama, its been going on for decades. trump just made it worse and this will more than likely continue.

HelenV · 28-12-2016 08:50PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it goes way beyond obama, its been going on for decades. trump just made it worse and this will more than likely continue.

Silencing the people can no longer be tolerated in Western society.

Citizens are angry and that didn't occur to-day nor yesterday.

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 08:56PM

HelenV wrote: »

Silencing the people can no longer be tolerated in Western society.

Citizens are angry and that didn't occur to-day nor yesterday.

sadly i dont think people like trump are the solution to these problems, in fact i think he ll probably further exacerbate them. i suspect what fintan o'toole explains in the podcast above is reasonably likely what ll happen under his reign. i think the people of america have been fooled by a salesman, i.e. a con man.

the people have the right to be angry, decades of neoliberalism and globalisation have wrecked the planet.

Grayson · 28-12-2016 08:57PM

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

Judging by the reactions to his election victory, the Donald's presidency is going to be the the most besieged one in the 21st century so far.
I don't remember George W. Bush's election win having such a hostile reception from the press and democrat supporters compared to the response Trump has had. From Jill Stein's recount request to the "muh Putin" narrative to the protesters. They really don't want him in charge. And they will still be doing everything they can to undermine his term in office in 2017 and beyond.

2016 has been quite a year and I'll be looking forward to to see what's in store for 2017.

I think Trump has the lowest approval rating of any president elect in the last 100 years. He's got no popular support.

HelenV · 28-12-2016 09:11PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

sadly i dont think people like trump are the solution to these problems, in fact i think he ll probably further exacerbate them. i suspect what fintan o'toole explains in the podcast above is reasonably likely what ll happen under his reign. i think the people of america have been fooled by a salesman, i.e. a con man.

the people have the right to be angry, decades of neoliberalism and globalisation have wrecked the planet.

It's much more than globalism and neoliberalism. It's the constant bulology and the FEELINGS of the "delicate" and "offended" not to mention those "offended" on their behalf I'm sick to the teeth of.

Trump may not be the answer but at least he's rustling a few feathers and that is better than nothing so far as I'm concerned.

Wanderer78 · 28-12-2016 09:15PM

HelenV wrote: »

It's much more than globalism and neoliberalism. It's the constant bulology and the FEELINGS of the "delicate" and "offended" not to mention those "offended" on their behalf I'm sick to the teeth of.

Trump may not be the answer but at least he's rustling a few feathers and that is better than nothing so far as I'm concerned.

all rhetoric, it ll more than likely lead to little or nothing truly changing, particularly for the majority, in fact it may make things much worse. only time will tell i guess.

InTheTrees · 28-12-2016 09:32PM

HelenV wrote: »

Silencing the people can no longer be tolerated in Western society.

Silencing the people is easy. You flood the media with fake stories until the people have no idea whats real and what isnt.

ebbsy · 28-12-2016 09:34PM

It's not fair that the likes of Michael Moore are still walking the earth compared to the talented who have died this year.

HellSquirrel · 28-12-2016 09:40PM

Grayson wrote: »

I think Trump has the lowest approval rating of any president elect in the last 100 years. He's got no popular support.

He has a little bit. But this thread is actually probably a reasonable representation of it. It's a bit interesting to count how many loud anti-Trump people there are; (I am not actually usually this argumentative!), vs how many loud pro-Trump people there are (and there aren't actually that many), then the less extreme ones on both sides, and then how many lurkers there are who are partly paying attention and probably mostly wishing we'd all shut up about it already :pac:

Grayson · 28-12-2016 09:40PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/814110460761018368

Trump getting his burns from 1995.

Grayson · 28-12-2016 09:41PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

He has a little bit. But this thread is actually probably a reasonable representation of it. It's a bit interesting to count how many loud anti-Trump people there are; (I am not actually usually this argumentative!), vs how many loud pro-Trump people there are (and there aren't actually that many), then the less extreme ones on both sides, and then how many lurkers there are who are partly paying attention and probably mostly wishing we'd all shut up about it already :pac:

4 more years of it.

HellSquirrel · 28-12-2016 09:41PM

Grayson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/814110460761018368

Trump getting his burns from 1995.

Oh, if the poor petal thinks he's being blocked now, I can only imagine how he'd have coped with the sort of blocking Obama was getting for eight years!

He'd probably have tried to nuke Congress by now. Or at least fire them.

Grayson wrote: »

4 more years of it.

Maybe only two. Bearing in mind that the Congress elections will be in 2018, and things will get a lot harder for him if he continues to muck around as he is doing at the moment. He'll still be there, but if he gets a hostile Congress, I can imagine him retiring into a two-year sulk.

InTheTrees · 28-12-2016 09:44PM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Oh, if the poor petal thinks he's being blocked now, I can only imagine how he'd have coped with the sort of blocking Obama was getting for eight years!

Wtf does he mean "thought it would be a smooth transition"???

He's the most unpopular president elect in history and he thinks it should all be easy and smooth. Moron.

El Presidente Trump

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