How do people feel about this? 84 taximen to be asked for DNA samples in rapist hunt

Pawwed Rig · 28-12-2016 02:28AM

If there is one thing that can be taken from the repeated data breaches in this country is that the State cannot be trusted to maintain your privacy. My general experience with the Gardai is that they are fairly technologically illiterate so I would have little faith that they would or could use the data in an appropriate manner.

Kamili · 28-12-2016 02:52AM

Damien360 wrote: »

Not sure you understand DNA sequence. Gardai have access to the results of a search, not to the DNA sequence as it is meaningless to anyone but those with the correct software and its corresponding database. It currently has no use for mapping of you in a commercial world. It is too complex. We can read the sequence but have very little understanding of it.

uhm, I'm not sure you got what I meant. If Gardaí are using free gmail accounts for Gardaí business, that information is then the property of google, whom can hand it over to whomever they please. I'm sure some of the agencies they could potentially hand it over to would be well versed in how to understand DNA

picturehangup · 28-12-2016 03:01AM

How I feel about this... is the original question.
As a taxidriver, I would not hesitate to fully co-operate in providing samples, etc.
If I have nothing to hide, why would I? As soon as the baxxxxtard is found, the better for society, and I will play whatever small part I can.

HellSquirrel · 28-12-2016 07:50AM

Kirby wrote: »

Absolutely 100% incorrect. It is not up to you to prove you are innocent. You have to answer no questions and if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is nearly always advisable to say nothing.

Well, yes, I see your reasoning, but how exactly do you propose crimes are solved without any public assistance? The Gardai (and any other police force) -are- civilians too. None of them have the benefit of being mind-readers.

Where this leads is "if you have an alibi, don't give it. Everyone must stand together against the enemy (the police). And then smack them around when criminals can't be caught."

It's not actually there yet, but we have imported the American distrust of the police too. I don't say that some of the Gardai aren't corrupt, nor do I say that the leadership isn't corrupt, but the sanest thing to do then is to work to eliminate corruption. Be cautious in the meantime, but remember that the police do actually have an important task to do and to block them completely from doing it is a poor excuse to kick them around for not being able to do it later on.

This is not America, even on the internet.

Roger_007 · 28-12-2016 08:54AM

I find some aspects of this story a bit odd.
Why is it only now, over a year after the event, that the Gardai are taking this action?
The victim, according to the article in the IT, alleges "that while being driven to Raheny, north Dublin, the driver raped her". It could be that the article is badly written, but it seems unlikely the she was raped while the taxi was being driven. It would have had to stop somewhere but there is no indication of where the alleged rape actually took place. If it did there might be witnesses who saw the car stopped somewhere unusual, but the Gardai do not appear to be looking for witnesses.
Also, there is no description of the alleged rapist. Surely they could eliminate most of the suspects from the description provided by the alleged victim?

lawred2 · 28-12-2016 09:00AM

Kirby wrote: »

Thats an awful attitude to have. People should be, and rightfully and lawfully are, assumed innocent. A person shouldn't have to prove they are innocent of a crime, or "eliminate themselves as a suspect".

If I was asked to provide a DNA sample I would refuse. You have no idea what will happen with that sample. Mistakes happen, and more often, misconduct happens.

That's toss anyway. If you happened to be at the scene of a crime and that can be shown to be the case then you very quickly have to eliminate yourself as a suspect...

arayess · 28-12-2016 10:01AM

i think this is a story floated by the gardai to smoke out their suspect or try to force them into a move that will incriminate themselves.

the dna sampel itself is probably a smokescreen and bare in mind we have a tiny fraction of the details the gardai will have

that said - I'd never give my DNA willingly.

suicide_circus · 28-12-2016 10:17AM

Keep the state at arms length where possible.

mattser · 28-12-2016 10:41AM

What would be the case, if it was a female relative of those on here who would not submit ? I'd hazard a guess that the Gardai would be hounded go get DNA.

28-12-2016 10:50AM

mattser wrote: »

What would be the case, if it was a female relative of those on here who would not submit ? I'd hazard a guess that the Gardai would be hounded go get DNA.

If, after a year, they hadn't managed to eliminate the vast majority of the 84 suspects, I'd certainly be hounding them alright...

If they got it down to four or five genuine suspects, then i'd be hounding them on DNA but not before they had done the proper police work first.

LordSutch · 28-12-2016 10:52AM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If someone has nothing to hide then I see no problem giving a sample.

I totally agree, I mean what else are the police going to do with my Taxi driver DNA, clone me?
Personally speaking I would have no issue with them taking a DNA swab, that way there would be one less Taxi driver to worry about in their hunt for the rapist.

Ineedaname · 28-12-2016 11:14AM

There have been cases around the world where innocent people have been convicted as a result of DNA evidence. Usually caused by cross contamination during examination.

Given the guards fairly nonchalant attitude to privacy and standards in this country I most certainly would not hand over my DNA willingly.

Oodoov · 28-12-2016 11:17AM

Wouldnt provide one myself as i in no way trust the Gardai or justice system in this country.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-12-2016 11:18AM

if it wasn't compulsory then I'd tell them to check everyone else and that would eliminate me -assuming I hadn't done anything.

DNA is great but it's no as reliable as people think and there could be false positives. I don't understand how these tests work so I wouldn't bet my freedom that these things can be explained to a jury of my peers In short, no-way Jose.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2016 01:23PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Besides, and I know this might make me sound paranoid, but by giving your DNA you are putting your freedom in the hands of some lab tech to not mess up and accidentally mix samples or whatever.

That could be corrected later on. And lots of people get off if there is any mess up there.

What could be more worrying is that commercial nuclease based DNA tests can be proprietary and may not be as specific as they sound. So very good at proving innocence. Tests with sequencing would be more authoritative, but would be more expensive, though the prices are tumbling.

Another problem is the CSI effect, where juries expect real life to match the bad fiction of black and white stories on TV where they always catch the guilty and there's never any mistakes. For example in most murder cases the witness is dead so circumstantial evidence is very, very important.

Pawwed Rig · 29-12-2016 06:27PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

That could be corrected later on. And lots of people get off if there is any mess up there.

In the meantime you are suspected of rape and that is something that will stick to you for possibly the rest of your life.

Rented Mule · 29-12-2016 07:02PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If someone has nothing to hide then I see no problem giving a sample.

You have two kidneys. I see no reason why you shouldn't donate one.

Now as insane as that statement may seem, I equate your 'If someone has nothing to hide then I see no problem giving a sample'.

You will never see me give a sample of anything without my consent. The fact that you feel that it is OK to profile anyone because of their job is disturbing.

Why not randomly stop people on the streets and frisk them?

Let's take that one step further, let's randomly round up people and fingerprint/process them to see if they come up for any ongoing investigations.

Why not create a DNA database of children when they start school? Surely they have nothing to worry about.

The Gardai/government/military will never, ever take a sample of anything from me without first charging me with a crime. I would fight this down to my last breath.

I would rather die standing than live on my knees - Zapata

Widdershins · 29-12-2016 07:27PM

I'm not into conspiracy theories but DNA is too important and serious to trust anyone with.

Your Face · 29-12-2016 07:41PM

A DNA sample should be given as part of the licence application.
Taxi drivers occupy a position of trust and safeguards need to put in place to make sure that trust isn't being abused.

_Whimsical_ · 29-12-2016 07:52PM

I think alot of people are nervous about putting their dna on file in any database anywhere in case at a later date wider powers for use of that dna might be granted, eg it could be used for profiling, for assessing genetic traits associated with criminality or mental illness for example, alll purposes that might be in the public interest but not necessarily in the individuals interest. I think it's a decision that I would not take lightly personally.

Galwayguy35 · 29-12-2016 07:56PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

You have two kidneys. I see no reason why you shouldn't donate one.

Now as insane as that statement may seem, I equate your 'If someone has nothing to hide then I see no problem giving a sample'.

You will never see me give a sample of anything without my consent. The fact that you feel that it is OK to profile anyone because of their job is disturbing.

Why not randomly stop people on the streets and frisk them?

Let's take that one step further, let's randomly round up people and fingerprint/process them to see if they come up for any ongoing investigations.

Why not create a DNA database of children when they start school? Surely they have nothing to worry about.

The Gardai/government/military will never, ever take a sample of anything from me without first charging me with a crime. I would fight this down to my last breath.

I would rather die standing than live on my knees - Zapata

Well I would willingly give a DNA sample to rule me out of an investigation so the cops don't waste time following up leads that would allow the culprit to escape.

You've been watching too many sci fi films, nobody is out to get you.

kleefarr · 29-12-2016 07:57PM

If you have nothing to hide then giving a DNA sample should not be an issue.

29-12-2016 08:01PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well I would willingly give a DNA sample to rule me out of an investigation so the cops don't waste time following up leads that would allow the culprit to escape.

It was a year ago ffs and the cops still have 84 suspects. What on earth have they been doing?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-12-2016 08:04PM

Your Face wrote: »

A DNA sample should be given as part of the licence application.
Taxi drivers occupy a position of trust and safeguards need to put in place to make sure that trust isn't being abused.

What? That's madness.

What about teachers? Bus drivers? Pilots? Chefs? Hairdressers? etc etc.

"If you have nothing to hide...." - That's an idiotic statement. Why are people so willing to offer up their freedom?

Your Face · 29-12-2016 08:07PM

Leonardo Uptight Rationalist wrote: »

What? That's madness.

What about teachers? Bus drivers? Pilots? Chefs? Hairdressers? etc etc.

"If you have nothing to hide...." - That's an idiotic statement. Why are people so willing to offer up their freedom?

Maybe edit your posts a bit better.
You're all confused there.

Rented Mule · 29-12-2016 08:08PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well I would willingly give a DNA sample to rule me out of an investigation so the cops don't waste time following up leads that would allow the culprit to escape.

You've been watching too many sci fi films, nobody is out to get you.

I would respect you making the choice to submit a sample. You are completely in your right here.

It has nothing about anyone 'being out to get you'.

My issue lies in 'a taxi man committed a crime, everyone who worked that night needs to submit a sample' is an invasion of their privacy.

Widdershins · 29-12-2016 08:12PM

I don't mind ordinary police investigations involving basic questions for those present or in the vicinity of a crime but dna is taking it too far, too much of an imposition. If they had narrowed it way down, and had other reasons to be suspicious, then maybe..

osarusan · 29-12-2016 08:20PM

Reluctance to give a sample for reasons of principle could lead to being under suspicion for this crime/being blamed for it not being solved more quickly.

Pawwed Rig · 29-12-2016 08:33PM

If you look at an average country anywhere in the world and look at what type of government they have had over a short period of history (say 100 years) then it is not beyond the realms of possibility to think a DNA database might be abused.
You never know what is around the corner.
Trump for example - would anyone think it beyond the realms of possibility that he would open up a DNA database to private business? Insurance company's for example?
It is a dangerous thing to take your liberties for granted as they are easily lost.

mulbot · 29-12-2016 08:36PM

Do the Bloodcards from the heel prick on infants get stored away? Could DNA be taken from these for any individual at any time?

How do people feel about this? 84 taximen to be asked for DNA samples in rapist hunt

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