How do people feel about this? 84 taximen to be asked for DNA samples in rapist hunt

GingerLily · 27-12-2016 02:31PM

I'd want to help the victim, and if that means making the investigation shorter by cooperating and providing DNA evidence then I would.

I respect though that it is a personal choice

Sand · 27-12-2016 02:32PM

RobertKK wrote: »

DNA tells so much about a person, it can be used to show that at least 83 taxi men are innocent.

In the words of Little Bill Daggett, innocent of what?

They're already presumed innocent. It is up to the state to put a case together. It is an important freedom, hard earned and not one to be given away lightly.

Kirby · 27-12-2016 02:33PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Me. Me. Me. Me.

Are you forgetting they are trying to catch a rapist? That's the whole point. They couldn't give a fiddlers about Joe Random.

If you are ever accused of a crime, I hope you will look back on this post and shake your head at your own naivety.

Avatar MIA · 27-12-2016 02:35PM

Kirby wrote: »

If you are ever accused of a crime, I hope you will look back on this post and shake your head at your own naivety.

Have you personally been a victim of a miscarriage of justice?

Of course it has happened, but car crashes don't stop me getting behind the wheel of a car.

If there is something I could do to narrow down a suspect for rape I would do it.

Sand · 27-12-2016 02:35PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Me. Me. Me. Me.

Are you forgetting they are trying to catch a rapist? That's the whole point. They couldn't give a fiddlers about Joe Random.

Then maybe they should be out trying to catch the rapist rather than bothering Joe Random for their DNA.

27-12-2016 02:36PM

And can you, can you imagine 84 Taximen a day, I said 84 Taximen a day
walking in singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

Nomis21 · 27-12-2016 02:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's what I thought, but if you look at the linked article, it's very clear that no such permanent database is going to be created here. The UK has entirely jumped the shark in terms of becoming an Orwellian nightmare in recent years, I can't see Ireland ever following them down the hellish rabbit hole the Tories have pulled their country into.

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately Ireland is already going down that road. Ireland seems to follow many UK enforcement policies, albeit some years after implementation in UK. Brexit will increase this as there will be many requirements by UK forced on Ireland to preserve the Common Travel area.

For example UK has put pressure on Ireland to increase immigration controls in order to preserve the rights of Irish citizens living in UK after Brexit. This has resulted in increased harassment on entry to Ireland of visitors from countries such as Canada and Australia and refusal of entry in some cases. Something that was unforeseeable a few years ago.

Avatar MIA · 27-12-2016 02:39PM

Sand wrote: »

Then maybe they should be out trying to catch the rapist rather than bothering Joe Random for their DNA.

You see, there are lots of people in the world and those charged with finding culprits don't necessarily know who the alleged rapist might be.

If they did, they wouldn't need to bother Joe Random.

Minority Report was not real. It was a movie with paid actors.

pablo128 · 27-12-2016 02:43PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

You see, there are lots of people in the world and those charged with finding culprits don't necessarily know who the alleged rapist might be.

If they did, they wouldn't need to bother Joe Random.

Minority Report was not real. It was a movie with paid actors.

They have a database of taxis. That's 84 addresses that they, right now as we speak, should be knocking on the doors of.

Not giving suspects the chance to flee, or burn the car destroying evidence etc.

Avatar MIA · 27-12-2016 02:46PM

pablo128 wrote: »

They have a database of taxis. That's 84 addresses that they, right now as we speak, should be knocking on the doors of.

Not giving suspects the chance to flee, or burn the car destroying evidence etc.

If one of the taxidrivers was unfortunate enough to have a burned out car, then I think the Gardai's focus would be narrowed considerably.

27-12-2016 02:47PM

I'm all for it. As stated in other posts it's purely voluntary. Any of them can decline. No one's rights are being violated as far as I can see.
This sort of thing happens throughout the year for various cases. It's the slow news season & it would be unusual enough to ask for 80 voluntary samples for the one case but not unheard of.

pablo128 · 27-12-2016 02:48PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

If one of the taxidrivers was unfortunate enough to have a burned out car, then I think the Gardai's focus would be narrowed considerably.

....with the evidence up in smoke and the suspect after fleeing? Or maybe you think the guy will be overcome with guilt and hand himself in?

Avatar MIA · 27-12-2016 02:55PM

pablo128 wrote: »

....with the evidence up in smoke and the suspect after fleeing? Or maybe you think the guy will be overcome with guilt and hand himself in?

Evidence up in smoke? They have DNA. Is he going to cremate himself?

There's nothing stopping any suspect in any case from attempting to flee.

From the article 84 of nearly 100 taxi drivers have cooperated, that in itself narrows down the search to the approx 14 remaining that have not come forward so far. That alone, without processing the actual 84 samples, should free up man hours.

27-12-2016 02:56PM

The more i think about this story, the more it seems to be kite-flying by the gardai, perhaps to stimulate the alleged rapist to hand himself in.

Of the 84, I'm sure maybe 60 could be eliminated by other methods, description, location, alibi etc etc. Certainly if the Gardai contacted me and I could show them firm evidence that it couldnt be me, and they still asked for DNA test I would refuse.

And who si to say it actually was a taximan at all, his car could have been 'borrowed' while he was at a function, for example.

pablo128 · 27-12-2016 02:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The more i think about this story, the more it seems to be kite-flying by the gardai, perhaps to stimulate the alleged rapist to hand himself in.

Of the 84, I'm sure maybe 60 could be eliminated by other methods, description, location, alibi etc etc. Certainly if the Gardai contacted me and I could show them firm evidence that it couldnt be me, and they still asked for DNA test I would refuse.

And who si to say it actually was a taximan at all, his car could have been 'borrowed' while he was at a function, for example.

It could also be a Prius with taxi stickers, as opposed to a genuine taxi.

mikeoneilly · 27-12-2016 02:59PM

There was a famous case in the UK where all the men in a village were DNA tested

The murderer was eventually caught when a man let slip in a pub that he had taken the test for a work colleague.

Is this a common procedure to request mass DNA testing?

Sand · 27-12-2016 03:04PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Evidence up in smoke? They have DNA. Is he going to cremate himself?

There's nothing stopping any suspect in any case from attempting to flee.

From the article 84 of nearly 100 taxi drivers have cooperated, that in itself narrows down the search to the approx 14 remaining that have not come forward so far. That alone, without processing the actual 84 samples, should free up man hours.

Are you serious? They shouldn't even test the samples provided?

Avatar MIA · 27-12-2016 03:05PM

Sand wrote: »

Are you serious? They shouldn't even test the samples provided?

*sigh*

I'm on my holidays. Can't be bothered.

Grayson · 27-12-2016 03:06PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If they have the mobile phone numbers of the 84 drivers the mast data from the night in question would give them their man but I suppose the Gardai as always like to work harder not smarter.

Would they not need a warrant and to prove suspicion to access that information.

Whereas asking for information doesn't require a warrant.

Sand · 27-12-2016 03:06PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

*sigh*

I'm on my holidays. Can't be bothered.

Well, we can only hope the detective work is a hobby.

Kamili · 28-12-2016 01:13AM

What happens if the Gardai use their Gmail email accounts to share your DNA sample with whomever they deem fit?

osarusan · 28-12-2016 01:25AM

Doesn't Ireland already have a DNA database? One was scheduled to be created about a year ago.

And it has already helped in identifying criminals. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/new-dna-database-helps-garda-to-solve-more-than-200-crimes-34798698.html

The article is saying that the samples submitted by taxi drivers (the samples that are not a match at least) will not be retained as part of that database. The will be just be destroyed after being found not to be a match.

Damien360 · 28-12-2016 01:30AM

Kamili wrote: »

What happens if the Gardai use their Gmail email accounts to share your DNA sample with whomever they deem fit?

Not sure you understand DNA sequence. Gardai have access to the results of a search, not to the DNA sequence as it is meaningless to anyone but those with the correct software and its corresponding database. It currently has no use for mapping of you in a commercial world. It is too complex. We can read the sequence but have very little understanding of it.

Damien360 · 28-12-2016 01:33AM

osarusan wrote: »

Doesn't Ireland already have a DNA database? One was scheduled to be created about a year ago.

And it has already helped in identifying criminals. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/new-dna-database-helps-garda-to-solve-more-than-200-crimes-34798698.html

The article is saying that the samples submitted by taxi drivers (the samples that are not a match at least) will not be retained as part of that database. The will be just be destroyed after being found not to be a match.

There is an older database. Anyone who frequents the forensic labs in the last 5 years has had a sample of their DNA taken for elimination of possible contamination. Mine is on file years for that reason and it causes me no bother whatsoever.

Capt'n Midnight · 28-12-2016 01:43AM

mikeoneilly wrote: »

There was a famous case in the UK where all the men in a village were DNA tested

The murderer was eventually caught when a man let slip in a pub that he had taken the test for a work colleague.

Is this a common procedure to request mass DNA testing?

That was the first time DNA was used in the UK. Without DNA evidence another man would almost certainly been convicted in his stead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Pitchfork

Junkyard Tom · 28-12-2016 01:52AM

My natural disposition towards privacy, and bodily autonomy, would be thinking 'no' but I'd say I'd probably be okay with it because, a) I'd want the rapist caught and b) I'd want people to feel safe using a service I was providing.

uch · 28-12-2016 01:54AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sorry for the tabloidy thread title, character limits

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/84-dublin-taxi-drivers-dna-screened-after-passenger-alleges-rape-1.2918081

When I read the headline, my immediate reaction was to think of the Big Brotherish implications, but as it turns out the headline is quite misleading ("84 Dublin taxi drivers’ DNA screened after passenger alleges rape"). Under the law, nobody can be compelled to provide a DNA sample - it's entirely voluntary and merely makes it easier to be eliminated from the list of suspects for questioning, etc. And the DNA is deleted immediately after the specific investigation for which it was provided has been closed - so the Irish Times' characterisation of it as a "DNA database" is also pretty misleading.

All in all this seems to me to be a fantastic way of potentially proving one's innocence. Obviously if a DNA match is confirmed, then it would still have to go to trial, the issue of consent would have to be discussed and I presume if there are any doubts about the accuracy of DNA science (of which I know absolutely nothing, for all I know it could be 100% or like shooting pigeons in the dark) those would be brought up at trial as well.

In that context, it strikes me as odd that the law is still seen as contentious. Personally if I was accused of anything that I could be easily and quickly ruled out of by providing a DNA sample, I'd actually be quite relieved. It would be a totally different kettle of fish if the DNA was then stored in some sort of mass profiling database as the article's opening paragraphs erroneously suggest ("It is the first case of mass screening since the DNA database was introduced in the Republic in November 2015"), but this seems to be fairly clear cut (and I'd imagine if it was abused / this part of it was found to have been violated, it would be an EU law violation and could be taken up at the ECJ). Fears that the state may lie and actually build a database in secret would potentially be allayed by this - if such a database was ever used as evidence and therefore exposed to the public, I'd imagine the EU would come down on Ireland like a ton of bricks.

I would also imagine that its use would be restricted to cases of serious crime (rape, murder, assault causing harm) and wouldn't be allowed in the case of somebody allegedly stealing a packet of Tayto.

What do people think? Are the civil liberties fears well founded or is this a fantastic development both for victims and innocent suspects?

EDIT: On the issue of it being voluntary, one thing I don't know is whether refusing to provide a sample could be used as evidence of suspicion / having something to hide in court. We don't have an Irish mirror to the fifth amendment in Ireland as far as I know, so someone legally minded would have to chime in on this - is remaining silent regarded as something which can be used as evidence of hiding something?

I just read that, your a prick for makin me read that, took 25 mins

B.A._Baracus · 28-12-2016 02:11AM

Hmmm. If I was in that situation (being asked to provide a sample) don't know how I feel. Like if you are innocent then you would be eliminating yourself from the investigation. But then at the same time as Galway_Old_Man said:

Galway_Old_Man wrote: »

Don't trust the system or the people involved so no, I wouldn't willingly provide a sample.

It's up to the Gardai to prove my guilt, not up to me to prove my innocence.

He's right. It is up to them. Besides, and I know this might make me sound paranoid, but by giving your DNA you are putting your freedom in the hands of some lab tech to not mess up and accidentally mix samples or whatever.

corner of hells · 28-12-2016 02:18AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Hmmm. If I was in that situation (being asked to provide a sample) don't know how I feel. Like if you are innocent then you would be eliminating yourself from the investigation. But then at the same time as Galway_Old_Man said:

Galway_Old_Man wrote: »

Don't trust the system or the people involved so no, I wouldn't willingly provide a sample.

It's up to the Gardai to prove my guilt, not up to me to prove my innocence.

He's right. It is up to them. Besides, and I know this might make me sound paranoid, but by giving your DNA you are putting your freedom in the hands of some lab tech to not mess up and accidentally mix samples or whatever.

I would imagine with something so serious there would failsafes in place.Possibly your sample being split into an A and B sample.

If a result came back they may crosscheck and do it again.I would assume it wouldn't be just a single lab technician checking the samples.

Atlantic Dawn · 28-12-2016 02:27AM

Why did it take over a year to get to the stage where they would look for DNA testing when they would have known 84 drivers had dark coloured Prius within days of checking?

How do people feel about this? 84 taximen to be asked for DNA samples in rapist hunt

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