Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Ben Gadot · 24-12-2016 06:38AM

Maguined wrote: »

Wait for it to die down and then both will be back public to continue the struggle against angry white men.

Angry? I think there are better words that could be used for this subject.

Perplexed white men.

Bemused white men.

Amused white men?

I mean I don't know what I could have done to be called angry. :pac: For some weird reason this is one of those fierce debates that only seems prevalent online. I work in an office with a roughly 50:50 ratio between men and women. I go to the gym occasionally. I've an extended line of family and friends of the female variety.....and this hardly ever comes up.

I'm not having a dig at anyone specifically, but some of these people on twitter I'd imagine would have a mini meltdown and fall into an incoherent tantrum if you ever met them in real life and innocently questioned them.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-12-2016 07:52AM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Joe's a bit hit and miss but I love the following clip from eight or nine years ago where Lydia Lunch (the once cute 80's punk feminist) starts shit with him back stage and asks him (about 1m 30s in) to look her in the eye when he is speaking to her... ouch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXUd7VxuSA

She's crazy-seriously crazy. Threatening him and then being all like 'it was a joke' shows a crazy mentality.

Also, she did shoot quite a few porno videos-under the title 'art'. Cos they were black and white.

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 08:19AM

Widdershins wrote: »

I know everyone's different but for me at least, dwelling on things never helps. I cannot see that it is helping LON either.

Absolutely. I personally squashed things down for a long time and I did minimise it, but there's a balance to be struck. You do have to move on.

This thing of "it's the worse possible thing to happen to you EVER" isn't actually very helpful. It feeds into the paranoia women are encouraged to feel when out walking alone etc and as the stats show, those attacks are very rare. It also leads to people treating you with kid gloves, which is beyond frustrating. Of course it's a **** thing, but I'd put my own experience on level with a very bad bereavement- you learn to live with it. Of course, there are people who have had worse experiences than me, I'm only speaking from my own point of view.

I actually think that the current debate may hinder some people from speaking out. If you don't fit the conventional box of a victim why would you draw the ire of all down on top of you?

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 08:28AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I agree. Though for her, she stated she was 'told' she was assaulted-and for me, that's a bit odd. My reason for saying that iswhy didn't she 'know' she was assaulted-she was there, she would know.
Not the therapist, who instilled feminism in her (which to me, is like instilling scientology in someone who is suffering from a mental illness). So I've no doubt she's got her own mental health issues, but I'd question the type of therapist she was frequenting.

To be fair.... I don't know her experience but minimising stuff is very common for victims. It's very easy to feel you're making a big deal out of nothing, especially in a binge drinking culture like Ireland. You also don't want to make a fuss, or draw people on top of you. a good therapist will give you permission to name it as what it is, when you might feel as though you're being hyperbolic about an incident.

A good therapist however will challenge you when you blame half of the population for an incident. A good therapist will also enable you to see that it's not always- or really ever- possible to get other people to do what we want them to.

midnight city · 24-12-2016 08:51AM

I'll give that 20 year old girl the benefit of the doubt for being young and foolish. But if she is going to be tweeting racist nonsense then she needs to accept it won't go unchallenged.

mzungu · 24-12-2016 10:57AM

Widdershins wrote: »

Hardly gender neutral though. Or can you be neutral by wearing so many conflictingly gendered garments, and changing your name, that you cancel out all the genders..

That's Santa for ya though, innit? A symbol of the engrained cisnormative and heteronormative (and anything else yer having) attitudes in society. There is just no way to gender neutralise him

me_right_one · 24-12-2016 11:00AM

20 years old is still way too old to be that immature.

I often wonder if there is a specific mental illness associated with the LON worldview? In medieval times, herself and that Courtney one would have prided themselves on being a "witch". I'm sure LON and courtney have never met each other, and I'm doubly sure neither have ever met a medieval witch, but the similarities in their behaviour is striking.

And its not just them, you see this group of "repeal" wearing, SJW-without-the-actual-compassion-for-others, entitled "victims" everywhere. Usually female, but of all ages, all over parts of the world where Europeans have had an influence.

Makes me wonder - is there a genetic mental deficiency going on here? And if so, should these people be entitled to vote, seeing as they're not of sound judgement?

mzungu · 24-12-2016 11:35AM

me_right_one wrote: »

20 years old is still way too old to be that immature.

I often wonder if there is a specific mental illness associated with the LON worldview? In medieval times, herself and that Courtney one would have prided themselves on being a "witch". I'm sure LON and courtney have never met each other, and I'm doubly sure neither have ever met a medieval witch, but the similarities in their behaviour is striking.

And its not just them, you see this group of "repeal" wearing, SJW-without-the-actual-compassion-for-others, entitled "victims" everywhere. Usually female, but of all ages, all over parts of the world where Europeans have had an influence.

Makes me wonder - is there a genetic mental deficiency going on here? And if so, should these people be entitled to vote, seeing as they're not of sound judgement?

The above is extremely unfair. The content of the articles/opinion pieces should be the only thing up for discussion. Calling into question the mental health of the individuals involved is out of order. Peoples private affairs should have no place in any conversation.

me_right_one · 24-12-2016 11:47AM

mzungu wrote: »

The above is extremely unfair. The content of the articles/opinion pieces should be the only thing up for discussion. Calling into question the mental health of the individuals involved is out of order. Peoples private affairs should have no place in any conversation.

Firstly, I'm not the one who brought it up. Secondly, LON and courtney have spoken publicly about it themselves. Thirdly, their mental condition is directly relevant to their discussions/ opinion pieces, which in turn are the very things which ARE up for discussion.

Now, I didnt single out a mis-judged action by LON, or anyone, based on their illnesses. I merely hypothesized whether or not there is a link between all the similar mental illnesses which seem prevalent in European influenced parts of the world. YOU projected the rest.

Its like me saying "should blind people be allowed to drive?" And you saying "You're being unfair to Stevie Wonder!"

Widdershins · 24-12-2016 11:50AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I agree. Though for her, she stated she was 'told' she was assaulted-and for me, that's a bit odd. My reason for saying that iswhy didn't she 'know' she was assaulted-she was there, she would know.
Not the therapist, who instilled feminism in her (which to me, is like instilling scientology in someone who is suffering from a mental illness). So I've no doubt she's got her own mental health issues, but I'd question the type of therapist she was frequenting.

That struck me, too. It seems weird. Although IvyTwines later explanation makes sense too.

deaddonkey15 · 24-12-2016 11:52AM

mzungu wrote: »

The above is extremely unfair. The content of the articles/opinion pieces should be the only thing up for discussion. Calling into question the mental health of the individuals involved is out of order. Peoples private affairs should have no place in any conversation.

The girl has made a number of public references to her mental illness. What that mental illness actually is, I don't know.

me_right_one · 24-12-2016 11:54AM

So what abuse did she actually suffer? If she didnt realise it was sexual abuse, then either she was 3 years old, or at least partly consented, albeit with diminished capacity (not that thats ok, just trying to understand this).

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 11:55AM

me_right_one wrote: »

20 years old is still way too old to be that immature.

I often wonder if there is a specific mental illness associated with the LON worldview? In medieval times, herself and that Courtney one would have prided themselves on being a "witch". I'm sure LON and courtney have never met each other, and I'm doubly sure neither have ever met a medieval witch, but the similarities in their behaviour is striking.

And its not just them, you see this group of "repeal" wearing, SJW-without-the-actual-compassion-for-others, entitled "victims" everywhere. Usually female, but of all ages, all over parts of the world where Europeans have had an influence.

Makes me wonder - is there a genetic mental deficiency going on here? And if so, should these people be entitled to vote, seeing as they're not of sound judgement?

Ehhhhh bit of a stretch. Not all Repeal campaigners are proponents of this. It's actually a very diverse group, and as I saw on the march there were all sorts there, including people you really wouldn't expect. Plenty of medical professionals and lawyers want the 8th repealed too. Anyway it's a different issue entirely.

And denying young 'hysterical' women the vote is pretty much how feminism got started :P

Your witch theory is interesting but doesn't really stack up. While there were young attractive women accused, the vast vast majority of the trial victims in Western Europe were old women, unattractive, extremely poor. Often they lived by begging. Probably a fair amount of them suffered from dementia as we know it today. Men were accused too, though not as often in Western Europe. In Russia it was mostly men, because Russia had a shamanic tradition. And in Ireland we had a very limited tradition of witchcraft, due to our belief in fairies. There were hags and butter witches, but they were a mere nuisance. If you look at the few witch trials that happened in Ireland, you'll see the vast majority concerned Anglo-Normans or Scottish planters.

My unproven theory is that America is so much worse for this stuff because it was founded on Christianity, all European societies have pagan roots and often had more complex interpretations of gender roles pre-Christianisation.

And as for the SJWs... well it's what happens when you have a movement so totally focussed in academia and out of touch with anyone who doesn't go to university (even the consent classes must take place in college, if you go straight into the workplace from school you don't count apparently) and a generation which was taught it was special and could achieve anything, only to find their prospects are actually worse than the generation before. You can see this flip side with MRAs, alt-right etc. It's what happens when entitlement and frustrated dreams go sour.

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 12:01PM

Widdershins wrote: »

That struck me, too. It seems weird. Although IvyTwines later explanation makes sense too.

It's just my personal experience. I felt that as I was able to get up, go to work, eat, sleep (albeit all in a daze) that I was being a bit of an idiot for focusing on this incident. You have a picture in your head of a victim endlessly sobbing and you don't fit that so maybe you're not one.

You can also blame yourself, so again, you minimise it.

To go back to the bereavement analogy, delayed reactions are very common. I'm sure many of us can think of relatives (or ourselves) who held it together for the funeral and then a month later broke down completely.

me_right_one · 24-12-2016 12:06PM

ivytwine wrote: »

Ehhhhh bit of a stretch. Not all Repeal campaigners are proponents of this.

Yes, but I'm saying all LON types seem to be repeal campaigners.

ivytwine wrote: »

And denying young 'hysterical' women the vote is pretty much how feminism got started

I'd argue that we should deny *anyone* who is hysterical the right to vote. Isis supporters and KKK members, for example. Anyone who is unhinged or mentally challenged should not be making decisions. LON included.

ivytwine wrote: »

And as for the SJWs... well it's what happens when you have a movement so totally focussed in academia and out of touch with anyone who doesn't go to university (even the consent classes must take place in college, if you go straight into the workplace from school you don't count apparently) and a generation which was taught it was special and could achieve anything, only to find their prospects are actually worse than the generation before. You can see this flip side with MRAs, alt-right etc. It's what happens when entitlement and frustrated dreams go sour.

I fully agree. But its not just an academia thing. There are SJW's out there who havent two brain cells to rub together. In fact, I'd say they're the majority!

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 12:22PM

me_right_one wrote: »

Yes, but I'm saying all LON types seem to be repeal campaigners.

Oh of course. It's quite a bandwagon. Unfortunately outside Twitter being pro-choice is neither glamorous nor profitable.

Edit to add: I don't have a jumper, but I'm perfectly happy to wear a badge... in Dublin. I'd have reservations about wearing it in my hometown because it's VERY conservative.

me_right_one wrote: »

I'd argue that we should deny *anyone* who is hysterical the right to vote. Isis supporters and KKK members, for example. Anyone who is unhinged or mentally challenged should not be making decisions. LON included.

That's a very very slippery slope. Where would it stop? And honestly these people have a negligible influence politically... for example the 8th still hasn't been repealed. The US election was a prime example of how little influence they really have. People really tend to forget that the internet isn't a factor in many people's lives, beyond online shopping and liking baby pictures on Facebook.

Well just cos you go to college doesn't mean you're smart!

Wibbs · 24-12-2016 12:50PM

ivytwine wrote: »

My unproven theory is that America is so much worse for this stuff because it was founded on Christianity,

It's much more because it was founded by various Protestant sects. Contrary to popular(and reformation propaganda) Catholics weren't nearly so big on burning witches. Offing heretics in general was more a Protestant thing and from pretty early on and also hence how you noted that most such trials in Ireland were brought by the later Protestant culture.

mzungu wrote:

The above is extremely unfair. The content of the articles/opinion pieces should be the only thing up for discussion. Calling into question the mental health of the individuals involved is out of order. Peoples private affairs should have no place in any conversation.

I do see where you're coming from M, however underlying mental illness is likely to form part of that conversation. EG someone suffering from agoraphobia or paranoia wouldn't be the best guide to learn about "walking home at night in an Irish town or city" and one wouldn't take dieting advice from an untreated anorexic.

Plus as was also noted LON and indeed this new woman push their mental illnesses front and centre. IMHO much of the time they wear them as a badge of honour and a defence/excuse. This has become extremely common of late with such commentators.

Widdershins · 24-12-2016 12:56PM

Wibbs wrote: »

It's much more because it was founded by various Protestant sects. Contrary to popular(and reformation propaganda) Catholics weren't nearly so big on burning witches. Offing heretics in general was more a Protestant thing and from pretty early on and also hence how you noted that most such trials in Ireland were brought by the later Protestant culture.

I do see where you're coming from M, however underlying mental illness is likely to form part of that conversation. EG someone suffering from agoraphobia or paranoia wouldn't be the best guide to learn about "walking home at night in an Irish town or city" and one wouldn't take dieting advice from an untreated anorexic.

Plus as was also noted LON and indeed this new woman push their mental illnesses front and centre. IMHO much of the time they wear them as a badge of honour and a defence/excuse. This has become extremely common of late with such commentators.

Yes that's what I find strange. They are aware that they're not well, but not aware enough to be careful about posting inflammatory stuff online. Being unwell isn't a magical shield that grants you invincibility. You don't get to tread on others because you're hurt. Yes we should make allowances but I think they are too used to having allowances made, and being indulged, and it's coming as a shock to be challenged despite their protestations of mental illness.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, for your own wellbeing..

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 01:08PM

Wibbs wrote: »

It's much more because it was founded by various Protestant sects. Contrary to popular(and reformation propaganda) Catholics weren't nearly so big on burning witches. Offing heretics in general was more a Protestant thing and from pretty early on and also hence how you noted that most such trials in Ireland were brought by the later Protestant culture.

I do see where you're coming from M, however underlying mental illness is likely to form part of that conversation. EG someone suffering from agoraphobia or paranoia wouldn't be the best guide to learn about "walking home at night in an Irish town or city" and one wouldn't take dieting advice from an untreated anorexic.

Plus as was also noted LON and indeed this new woman push their mental illnesses front and centre. IMHO much of the time they wear them as a badge of honour and a defence/excuse. This has become extremely common of late with such commentators.

It's also not helpful to a lot of people with mental health issues. I think my main issue with the whole thing is the glamourization of victimhood, whether it's intentional or not. The reality is that rape or depression are the opposite of glamorous. There's no dark beauty in any of it. It's completely and utterly crap. I won't say I'm glad it happened to me because I'm stronger now or some rubbish. I was unlucky and I wish it hadn't happened.

I also feel that while intentions may be good, practical help like lobbying for increased spending in these areas to support victims etc would be far more useful. Middle class people can afford treatment, but what help is there for the poor? I had untreated depression as a teenager and honestly, not having a family able to afford therapy was definitely a factor in my keeping it to myself.

Absolutely with you on the historical perspective. The rivalry between sects, the fear of native Americans, the landscape and later on, African Americans leads into the deep clinging onto personal freedoms, in constant tension with the need to conform, that seems so strong in the American psyche.

Oh and witchcraft was treated as a civil crime in the States, same as England. That was why they were hanged, not burned. Interesting to think that the offence was against society, rather than God, in these two countries.

RabbleRouser2k · 24-12-2016 10:01PM

me_right_one wrote: »

So what abuse did she actually suffer? If she didnt realise it was sexual abuse, then either she was 3 years old, or at least partly consented, albeit with diminished capacity (not that thats ok, just trying to understand this).

It wasn't sexual abuse-it was a sexual encounter with a former boyfriend that she claims a/ her therapist told her was 'non-consensual'. I'd link the article, but in typical Indo fashion, it's more like a fashion catalogue (with Louise all decked out in 'glam' outfits) than an actual article. The Indo, atrocious in every sense.

So that's what I mean- like, how could one not know if they have been there.

Like, it's similar to how Lena Dunham cried rape against someone, but her entire tale of it didn't add up-she talked dirty to him during it, she laughed with her roommate when she (roommate)said 'I think you were raped'... and then tried to paint him as a horrible human being, besides all the rape, by describing him as 'a republican'. From her description, he'd had a bit to drink too, so yeah, that doesn't add up.
And then her book discussing it had to be recalled with a retraction, as it described a person who had been in that college at the time, but due to circumstances at the time, he had either been abroad, or on holidays during the time she described, so despite him matching the description, he wasn't there nor did her know Dunham. Yeah, she very swiftly recalled it cos she knew she'd get sued.

ivytwine · 24-12-2016 10:26PM

Part of me really hopes Lena Dunham is a plant to discredit feminism.

mzungu · 24-12-2016 10:34PM

me_right_one wrote:

Thirdly, their mental condition is directly relevant to their discussions/ opinion pieces, which in turn are the very things which ARE up for discussion.

LON may have spoken about it publicly, but if a discussion is focussing on the tenets of the third/fourth/Tumblr wave, then to ponder whether its followers are suffering a mental illness is a step off track. A persons mental health background matters not in the grand scheme of what is being discussed.

me_right_one wrote:

Now, I didnt single out a mis-judged action by LON, or anyone, based on their illnesses. I merely hypothesized whether or not there is a link between all the similar mental illnesses which seem prevalent in European influenced parts of the world. YOU projected the rest.

Your post was about LON and contained:

me_right_one wrote:

I often wonder if there is a specific mental illness associated with the LON worldview?

me_right_one wrote:

herself and that Courtney one would have prided themselves on being a "witch". I'm sure LON and courtney have never met each other, and I'm doubly sure neither have ever met a medieval witch, but the similarities in their behaviour is striking.

me_right_one wrote:

Makes me wonder - is there a genetic mental deficiency going on here? And if so, should these people be entitled to vote, seeing as they're not of sound judgement?

I wasn’t trying to project at all. There was multiple mentions of LON peppered throughout your post alongside references to mental illness. If it was just your thoughts on the third wave in general and not on any individual(s), why bother mentioning them by name in there?

However, if you say you were not speaking directly about the difficulties of either party, then that’s fine. Stuff can, and frequently does, get lost in translation online.

But, you have since gone on to say…

me_right_one wrote:

Anyone who is unhinged or mentally challenged should not be making decisions. LON included.

You see what I mean? You're sticking the boot in there.

mzungu · 24-12-2016 10:37PM

ivytwine wrote: »

Part of me really hopes Lena Dunham is a plant to discredit feminism.

That would explain a few things alright!

RabbleRouser2k · 24-12-2016 10:37PM

ivytwine wrote: »

Part of me really hopes Lena Dunham is a plant to discredit feminism.

Sensual red pantsuit made me lose my sanity-and possibly helped Hillary lose the election.

Be warned, if you haven't seen it, prepare to go insane-and realise why Hillary lost.

Ulysses Gaze · 24-12-2016 10:48PM

ivytwine wrote: »

Part of me really hopes Lena Dunham is a plant to discredit feminism.

She's like a parody Feminist Meme at this stage.

And that ****ing video above.......good Christ.....

RabbleRouser2k · 24-12-2016 11:00PM

You think that's bad-this is real...THIS IS REAL PEOPLE!!!

'Crafting with feminism'...oh my God...

Includes 'Tampon buddies'....

Seriously, who the in God's name would even buy this crud, or make this crud-it literally reads like a childrens cruddy book.
Like, Make and Do with MAry, but with less intelligence.

And my friend sent me this-and it's not far off, tbh.

Ulysses Gaze · 24-12-2016 11:30PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

You think that's bad-this is real...THIS IS REAL PEOPLE!!!

'Crafting with feminism'...oh my God...

Includes 'Tampon buddies'....

Seriously, who the in God's name would even buy this crud, or make this crud-it literally reads like a childrens cruddy book.
Like, Make and Do with MAry, but with less intelligence.

And my friend sent me this-and it's not far off, tbh.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34600000/Dave-megadeth-34668987-182-232.gif

mzungu · 25-12-2016 12:30AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I do see where you're coming from M, however underlying mental illness is likely to form part of that conversation. EG someone suffering from agoraphobia or paranoia wouldn't be the best guide to learn about "walking home at night in an Irish town or city" and one wouldn't take dieting advice from an untreated anorexic.

I agree to an extent Wibbs. Using agoraphobia as an example, I think the agoraphobic should still be debunked purely on the basis of facts about the comparatively low levels of assaults in Irish towns etc. If what is being said has any validity then it shouldn’t matter if they are a Clinton loving depressed hermit living in abject poverty in a yurt in rural Tajikistan, or a high flying studio exec with a mansion in Beverly Hills who wants to "make America great again" :P As always though, success or failure should depend on the merits of what they say, and that alone.

I do get that what she wrote about her mental health in her articles will always be out there in the public domain, such is the nature of the media beast. My view is, that I find it irrelevant to the other stuff she writes about being discussed in this thread.

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus as was also noted LON and indeed this new woman push their mental illnesses front and centre. IMHO much of the time they wear them as a badge of honour and a defence/excuse. This has become extremely common of late with such commentators.

TBH, I wouldn’t have any issue with her writing about her mental health experiences as she has a young fan base. It could do a lot to remove stigma among that younger age group. That has pretty much always been my view on quite a few taboo subjects. But, there has been some interesting insights from other posters in this thread, namely this one that gave me pause for thought:

ivytwine wrote:

It's also not helpful to a lot of people with mental health issues. I think my main issue with the whole thing is the glamourization of victimhood, whether it's intentional or not. The reality is that rape or depression are the opposite of glamorous. There's no dark beauty in any of it. It's completely and utterly crap.

Point well made. While I am still of the mindset that it is good to get these things mainstream and have national discussions on these matters, I do accept there is a danger that glamming them up can end up causing the opposite effect of what they are intended to do. I would hope that all concerned parties that are involved are mindful of this.

RabbleRouser2k · 25-12-2016 02:59AM

mzungu wrote: »

Point well made. While I am still of the mindset that it is good to get these things mainstream and have national discussions on these matters, I do accept there is a danger that glamming them up can end up causing the opposite effect of what they are intended to do. I would hope that all concerned parties that are involved are mindful of this.

I actually, also, agree with you there. You hear a great deal of misinformation regarding mental health, as you did at one point regarding dyslexia, and ADD, or Aspergers. People were self diagnosing themselves, then stating they had it. Once heard a 40 year old woman diagnose herself as 'verbally dyslexic' cos she mixed up words, or had trouble pronouncing words. I had to roll my eyes.
The reason she couldn't pronounce words was because of her frequent smoking of weed and drinking of wine, and other stuff. Not pronounciation stuff. (She told me she smoked weed, no presuming). A speech impediment would be the most one could even diagnose themselves with.

But mental illness-it's glamourised. Completely. As is the whole 'dying young' when all you do is sit there and think 'no, dying young is horrible-we all have so much great things we can do'. Even Tony Bennett, at 90, is still producing some really great work, some of it eclipsing his older work. Imagine the great work Amy Winehouse and Kurt Kobain, or Elvis, could be doing if they had lived. It's seen as 'oh so fashionable' to hear someone say 'I'm so OCD about this'...but try meeting or living as someone with OCD, you won't be happy, at all. It's awful.

RabbleRouser2k · 25-12-2016 03:36AM

ivytwine wrote: »

Oh of course. It's quite a bandwagon. Unfortunately outside Twitter being pro-choice is neither glamorous nor profitable.

Edit to add: I don't have a jumper, but I'm perfectly happy to wear a badge... in Dublin. I'd have reservations about wearing it in my hometown because it's VERY conservative.

That's a very very slippery slope. Where would it stop? And honestly these people have a negligible influence politically... for example the 8th still hasn't been repealed. The US election was a prime example of how little influence they really have. People really tend to forget that the internet isn't a factor in many people's lives, beyond online shopping and liking baby pictures on Facebook.

Well just cos you go to college doesn't mean you're smart!

These type of people (the Repealers) have limited experience outside of college, tbh.

And the Repeal the 8th Campaign has become an absolute joke, at this stage-as one journalist noted, it's similar to Hillary's losing campaign. Not bringing people in, but instead shunning them-and no amount of red badges will do anything to convince people. You have to, in some way, shape or form, reach out, answer questions, and quell any fears.

Colleges seem to convince people they have a lifetime of experience within 4 years-but in practicalities, they have only learned things from books. To quote the Marquis de Sade, 'I've been to hell, you've only read about it.'
They have no life experience. You see doctors out there who are highly skilled when graduating, but couldn't hold a conversation with a patient to save their lives- they lack any kind of social interaction.

Don't get me wrong, living life, and reading about life, is the only way to essentially better ones self and to understand the human condition.

Some practically live in college too (look at how many members of the Student Union in college since they were 19/20, are now pushing towards 30 and don't wanna leave. Even if they graduate, they then go back to work in the Student Union-I mean, come on, move on. Don't just hang around the same place over and over.)

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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