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NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭HoggyRS


    Theres alot of work going on the Cork to Dublin motorway just outside Mitchelstown. Ducts being put down, chambers being built and rope being pulled through the ducts. Is this to do with one of the FTTH companies?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    HoggyRS wrote: »
    Theres alot of work going on the Cork to Dublin motorway just outside Mitchelstown. Ducts being put down, chambers being built and rope being pulled through the ducts. Is this to do with one of the FTTH companies?

    Which side of Mitchelstown was it? There's no ducting on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cashel, but there is from Mitchelstown to Cork.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    Which side of Mitchelstown was it? There's no ducting on the M8 between Mitchelstown and Cashel, but there is from Mitchelstown to Cork.


    North side, a couple of km of roadworks near Kilbeheny at present, wondered what they were up to

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭9726_9726


    North side, a couple of km of roadworks near Kilbeheny at present, wondered what they were up to

    Yeah, I spotted it in two locations on the M8. Purple 110mm ducting.

    I know the NRA (or whatever it's called this government) have a ducting product. Meant to be a disaster. Non-contiguous runs, priced too high to be of any commercial use.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭MajesticDonkey


    9726_9726 wrote: »
    North side, a couple of km of roadworks near Kilbeheny at present, wondered what they were up to

    Yeah, I spotted it in two locations on the M8. Purple 110mm ducting.

    I know the NRA (or whatever it's called this government)  have a ducting product. Meant to be a disaster. Non-contiguous runs, priced too high to be of any commercial use.
    Like I said, the NRA have no ducting between Mitchelstown and Cashel for whatever reason. It's interesting to see it's being done now.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.

    Minister Denis Naughten has written an opinion piece in response to Brian O'Donohoe. I'm not a member of independent.ie so can't read the whole article.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/nobody-will-be-left-behind-in-drive-to-tackle-the-digital-divide-35247866.html#


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Minister Denis Naughten has written an opinion piece in response to Brian O'Donohoe. I'm not a member of independent.ie so can't read the whole article.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/nobody-will-be-left-behind-in-drive-to-tackle-the-digital-divide-35247866.html#

    same here can only read first paragraph. Hopefully he has a go at that article from last week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Brian O'Donohoe's opinion piece in this newspaper last Sunday questioned the need to roll out high-speed broadband to rural Ireland that was capable of meeting the needs of users for 25 years and beyond.

    I feel compelled to respond as a rural TD and as Communications Minister. I want to reassure people in rural Ireland that high-speed broadband will be delivered to every premises in Ireland under the National Broadband Plan which I am driving. The plan will be one of the single biggest investments in rural Ireland for generations.

    The reality is there are provincial parts of this country that are significantly behind where they need to be in terms of modern communications infrastructure.

    Across the country, from inner cities to remote rural parishes, there are communities that are partly or sometimes wholly excluded from basic criteria of modern convenience and comfort, in terms of communications, energy efficiency and fuel poverty.

    It is exactly because of this that a top social, economic and political priority for me is delivering the National Broadband Plan in the shortest time that is humanly possible. This plan will revolutionise businesses and communities across provincial towns in rural Ireland. As a rural TD I know only too well the frustrations of people living in rural Ireland who cannot access online services - 1.8 million people. This is not acceptable and I am determined to deal with this head on.

    Over the last five years, the telecoms industry has invested €3.3bn. This is roughly equivalent to Ireland's annual public capital programme.

    As a result, 1.3 million homes and businesses in Ireland can now access high-speed broadband of at least 30mbps and 4G data services are available to more than 90pc of the population.

    The broadband plan will address this deficit. It may even reverse the urban-rural digital divide.

    So what is the plan? It will deliver a high-speed broadband network to more than 750,000 premises, covering 100,000km of road network and 96pc of the land area of Ireland.

    The current procurement process to build this network stipulates a minimum speed of 30mbps to all premises and an expansion path for a solution that will last for 25 years.

    When I look at the scale of this plan, I associate it with rural electrification. It is critical that we make the right intervention. We aim to do this once and do it right.

    Every home and business in Ireland will have access to high-speed broadband and be future proofed for advances in technology for decades to come.

    Bidders in the procurement process have indicated that they are proposing a predominantly fibre-to-the-home solution for rural Ireland. This is their choice and I welcome this news. It is good news for rural Ireland. So I was surprised to read in Brian O'Donohoe's article that some believe fibre-to-the-home may not be the optimal solution.

    It may be helpful to refer to the rhetoric around the Shannon Scheme in the 1920s. In Michael Shiel's story of rural electrification The Quiet Revolution: The Electrification of Rural Ireland, he notes that some media at the time "while not actually hostile expressed doubts about the size and timing of the venture". He quotes one newspaper as saying: "The present needs of Southern Ireland cannot be more than about 40 million units per annum… whereas the scheme provides for 140 million units. The Irish people…with such an excess of power…may all be electrocuted in their beds." Shiel notes that the figure of 150 million units was reached within 10 years of the signing of the contract for the Shannon Scheme and by 1970 "annual consumption of electricity from rural consumers alone exceeded 1,000 million units".

    The world of telecoms is strikingly similar. Data usage on mobile networks has increased by 500pc in the last five years and fixed-line internet traffic is set to double every two years.

    Commercial operators worldwide will make their investments based on the financial returns they can achieve and the technologies they choose reflect this reality. While this has driven very significant investment in parts of Ireland, that investment has not materialised in several other areas.

    For Government, the returns are not all about short to medium-term financial profit. They are about improving and supporting communities, businesses, our economy and people. Left to the market alone, parts of rural Ireland would never get high-speed broadband. The National Broadband Plan will address the gap between what commercial operators will provide and what we as a society aspire to and demand.

    Last week's article suggested difficulties with planning for a predominantly fibre-to-the-home network. All technologies bring planning and roll-out challenges, including both fixed line and wireless.

    In Ireland we are fortunate to have two national networks that are capable of delivering fixed-line services to homes and businesses in every corner of the country. In rural Ireland, much of this can be achieved through the use of existing overhead poles. Most countries have one national fixed-line telecoms operator, but Ireland also has the ability to use its electricity infrastructure, thanks to legislation introduced by the Oireachtas in 2014.

    Through the work of the Mobile Phone and Broadband Taskforce, which I established with Minister Heather Humphreys almost as soon as I took office, we are working with local authorities to improve planning. The appointment of a broadband officer as a single point of contact for telecoms operators in each local authority will be key to overcoming obstacles quickly.

    I am determined to deliver as Communications Minister a National Broadband Plan that will provide people in rural and urban Ireland with the quality connectivity they deserve, regardless of where they live. No premises will be left behind and the service will endure for generations to come.

    Denis Naughten is the Independent TD for Roscommon-Galway and Minister for Communications, Climate Action and the Environment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 380 ✭✭Strawberry HillBilly


    Only took a minute to sign up to read the full article.

    In summary, the government is pushing for completion of a long term fit for expansion solution, to last in long term.

    He equates the short term commentary associated with the Shannon electrification project of the 1920s where Michael Sheils ? bemoaned the over specification of the rural electrification plan only to find it had been fully utilised in 10 years.

    The speed of data consumption is running at an exponential rate and therefore the technology to deliver the solution and reverse the rural urban divide needs to be capable of delivering in the long term and we cannot have short term solutions which just about do for now. Well that's what I took from it ��


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Cheers KOR101.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭rob808


    Oops was beating to it using a iPad slower than laptop


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    Good news then that he isn't a pushover to Imagine's marketing strategy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    Brian's got form in this regard. Here he is in 2010 talking bollocks about his company's doomed Wimax rollout. Skip to 2m48 to avoid TV3s annoying tech guy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Brian O'Donohoe's opinion piece in this newspaper last Sunday questioned the need to roll out high-speed broadband to rural Ireland that was capable of meeting the needs of users for 25 years and beyond.

    I feel compelled to respond as a rural TD and as Communications Minister. I want to reassure people in rural Ireland that high-speed broadband will be delivered to every premises in Ireland under the National Broadband Plan which I am driving. The plan will be one of the single biggest investments in rural Ireland for generations.

    The reality is there are provincial parts of this country that are significantly behind where they need to be in terms of modern communications infrastructure.

    Across the country, from inner cities to remote rural parishes, there are communities that are partly or sometimes wholly excluded from basic criteria of modern convenience and comfort, in terms of communications, energy efficiency and fuel poverty.

    It is exactly because of this that a top social, economic and political priority for me is delivering the National Broadband Plan in the shortest time that is humanly possible. This plan will revolutionise businesses and communities across provincial towns in rural Ireland. As a rural TD I know only too well the frustrations of people living in rural Ireland who cannot access online services - 1.8 million people. This is not acceptable and I am determined to deal with this head on.

    Over the last five years, the telecoms industry has invested €3.3bn. This is roughly equivalent to Ireland's annual public capital programme.

    As a result, 1.3 million homes and businesses in Ireland can now access high-speed broadband of at least 30mbps and 4G data services are available to more than 90pc of the population.

    The broadband plan will address this deficit. It may even reverse the urban-rural digital divide.

    So what is the plan? It will deliver a high-speed broadband network to more than 750,000 premises, covering 100,000km of road network and 96pc of the land area of Ireland.

    The current procurement process to build this network stipulates a minimum speed of 30mbps to all premises and an expansion path for a solution that will last for 25 years.

    When I look at the scale of this plan, I associate it with rural electrification. It is critical that we make the right intervention. We aim to do this once and do it right.

    Every home and business in Ireland will have access to high-speed broadband and be future proofed for advances in technology for decades to come.

    Bidders in the procurement process have indicated that they are proposing a predominantly fibre-to-the-home solution for rural Ireland. This is their choice and I welcome this news. It is good news for rural Ireland. So I was surprised to read in Brian O'Donohoe's article that some believe fibre-to-the-home may not be the optimal solution.

    It may be helpful to refer to the rhetoric around the Shannon Scheme in the 1920s. In Michael Shiel's story of rural electrification The Quiet Revolution: The Electrification of Rural Ireland, he notes that some media at the time "while not actually hostile expressed doubts about the size and timing of the venture". He quotes one newspaper as saying: "The present needs of Southern Ireland cannot be more than about 40 million units per annum… whereas the scheme provides for 140 million units. The Irish people…with such an excess of power…may all be electrocuted in their beds." Shiel notes that the figure of 150 million units was reached within 10 years of the signing of the contract for the Shannon Scheme and by 1970 "annual consumption of electricity from rural consumers alone exceeded 1,000 million units".

    The world of telecoms is strikingly similar. Data usage on mobile networks has increased by 500pc in the last five years and fixed-line internet traffic is set to double every two years.

    Commercial operators worldwide will make their investments based on the financial returns they can achieve and the technologies they choose reflect this reality. While this has driven very significant investment in parts of Ireland, that investment has not materialised in several other areas.

    For Government, the returns are not all about short to medium-term financial profit. They are about improving and supporting communities, businesses, our economy and people. Left to the market alone, parts of rural Ireland would never get high-speed broadband. The National Broadband Plan will address the gap between what commercial operators will provide and what we as a society aspire to and demand.

    Last week's article suggested difficulties with planning for a predominantly fibre-to-the-home network. All technologies bring planning and roll-out challenges, including both fixed line and wireless.

    In Ireland we are fortunate to have two national networks that are capable of delivering fixed-line services to homes and businesses in every corner of the country. In rural Ireland, much of this can be achieved through the use of existing overhead poles. Most countries have one national fixed-line telecoms operator, but Ireland also has the ability to use its electricity infrastructure, thanks to legislation introduced by the Oireachtas in 2014.

    Through the work of the Mobile Phone and Broadband Taskforce, which I established with Minister Heather Humphreys almost as soon as I took office, we are working with local authorities to improve planning. The appointment of a broadband officer as a single point of contact for telecoms operators in each local authority will be key to overcoming obstacles quickly.

    I am determined to deliver as Communications Minister a National Broadband Plan that will provide people in rural and urban Ireland with the quality connectivity they deserve, regardless of where they live. No premises will be left behind and the service will endure for generations to come.

    Denis Naughten is the Independent TD for Roscommon-Galway and Minister for Communications, Climate Action and the Environment
    In summary, the plan is to finally deliver a worthwhile solution that is future proofed instead of the short term cheap option that doesn't really fulfill the objectives but is excellent at lining the pockets of the shareholders of a telecommuncations company.

    Delighted that Naughten took the time to reply to that heap of ****e "article" last week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Naughten is full of shíte, but its still better than the absolute lies that O'Donohoe spouts. Fair play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭garroff


    Again....thanks KOR101


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    It’s late when I meet Denis Naughten, and his earlier engagements that day have included a big telecoms industry lunch, full of Eir, Siro and Virgin people. In the manner of a new Minister not yet used to being a candidate for the stocks, he jokes that it was a chance for the big telcos to pelt him with tomatoes.

    “Oh, have they reason to?”

    “Actually, the exact opposite,” says the Independent TD for Roscommon-Galway and Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment. “I can’t talk about the elephant in the room when we’re having chit-chat, particularly when you have the three bidders [for the National Broadband Plan] at the table.”

    Alas, the National Broadband Plan is turning out to be less of a stampeding elephant than it is a large snail. Minutes before we meet, a passing Fianna Fáiler was compelled to share his tales of broadband woe with Naughten’s press adviser: “We can’t even watch Netflix, ” he said sorrowfully.

    “Look, we’re all hugely frustrated with the lack of broadband services in the periphery of many of our towns and rural areas,” says Naughten, having guided me to the office of absent colleague Paschal Donohoe across the hall from his own.

    Is it true that the latest delay is due to a fear that the contracts, once awarded, will be immediately subject to legal challenge? “There is always the potential for a legal challenge in this process – and it is a very complex process. A contract is 1,000 pages long,” he says.

    He promises to have “shovels in the ground” by 2018 and says he is focused on eradicating “bottlenecks” from the system before then, “rather than doing what most politicians do, go and whinge and say this is terrible and wringing your hands”.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/interview-denis-naughten-has-his-work-cut-out-with-tricky-portfolio-1.2887796


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭rob808


    It companies like Imagine causing delay to NBP with legal actions looking for ways to destroy NBP from ever happening to save there monopoly on rural Ireland.I hope we know the winning bidder(s) in 2017 with work starting in late 2017/early 2018.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    rob808 wrote: »
    It companies like Imagine causing delay to NBP with legal actions looking for ways to destroy NBP from ever happening to save there monopoly on rural Ireland.I hope we know the winning bidder(s) in 2017 with work starting in late 2017/early 2018.
    Rob -Where's the evidence of that? There was some talk here before about having technical systems in place to allow the WISPS to connect to the NBP fibre, but I haven't read any concrete about legal threats from them.

    The EU is quite clear about the 30mbit target, and just look at the Imagine thread now. There's no way they could make a case. Eir with it's blue line is another matter, but we are largely in the dark about what the precise legal issue are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭rob808


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Rob -Where's the evidence of that? There was some talk here before about having technical systems in place to allow the WISPS to connect to the NBP fibre, but I haven't read any concrete about legal threats from them.

    The EU is quite clear about the 30mbit target, and just look at the Imagine thread now. There's no way they could make a case. Eir with it's blue line is another matter, but we are largely in the dark about what the precise legal issue are.
    There no evidence but it wouldn't surprise me if they try I'm just hoping there no more delays.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,997 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I didn't now Virgin was interested in the NBP. That's good to have 3 large bidders interested, from a taxpayer's perspective hopefully that means we will get the best price possible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,406 ✭✭✭rob808


    murphaph wrote: »
    I didn't now Virgin was interested in the NBP. That's good to have 3 large bidders interested, from a taxpayer's perspective hopefully that means we will get the best price possible.
    I think that was a error it should had said Enet.I couldn't see virgin media being interest in rural Ireland.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,483 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    yep has to be a typo, Virgin Media have zero interest in rural Ireland and small to medium sized towns. They have stated many times before themselves that they only deal with large populated centers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Off topic, but related......

    Communications Minister Denis Naughten said that he plans to make Ireland the first European country to base mobile operator licenses on geographical coverage rather than population coverage.

    The move means that Vodafone, Three and Meteor will be required to cover more than cities or large towns to be granted new licenses, starting with the upcoming 5G mobile license auction in 2019.

    At present, Irish mobile operators' licenses only require them to cover between 70pc and 85pc of the country by population, meaning there is no obligation to extend 3G or 4G services into relatively unpopulated areas of the country or rural roads."We hope to be the first country in Europe to roll out 5G licenses on a geographical basis rather than a population basis," said Mr Naughten. "Based on our dispersed population, we need to do it this way."

    He said that 5G licence auctions are expected in Ireland in "late 2019 or early 2020" and that the relevant wireless spectrum for 5G is currently being freed up.

    "There are lots of reasons for geographic coverage instead of population coverage. If you take farmers, they need access to services on their phone when out and about. Farming and rural services are changing quickly and we need ubiquitous coverage for that."

    "We all talk about driverless cars coming down the line, but you can't have driverless cars without ubiquitous 5G," he said.

    However, the new geographic coverage requirements won't be applied to existing licences. Mr Naughten said that the government is launching new initiatives to increase mobile penetration around the country. He said that the use of equipment called 'mobile repeaters', aimed at boosting mobile signals in individual homes, will be allowed from next year.

    He also said that some planning and mast-building hurdles for operators are to be minimised, such as development levies collected from mobile operators by local councils. Operators will get also more access to state property for infrastructure. And mobile operators will now report to a joint government task force headed by Minister Naughten and Arts Minister Heather Humphries.

    Finally, a national mobile signal map is to be published by Comreg with input from the mobile operators' own data.

    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/news/mobile-phone-operators-required-to-cover-more-of-rural-ireland-under-new-licensing-conditions-35308868.html


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Most people who don't have mobile coverage aren't worried about "5G" speeds, they don't have basic access to a network. The next rollout should be about consolidating coverage across the country, and filling blackspots providing widespread coverage, especially when thinking of transport and accessing the Internet on the move.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    That's great. Nuke their ability to compete, hamstring them. Then you'll see everyone with coverage and nobody with a usable connection.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,092 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    marno21 wrote: »
    Most people who don't have mobile coverage aren't worried about "5G" speeds, they don't have basic access to a network. The next rollout should be about consolidating coverage across the country, and filling blackspots providing widespread coverage, especially when thinking of transport and accessing the Internet on the move.

    VoLTE, basic voice access combined with 5G 700 MHz coverage from 2020. Is it an option?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    The Cush wrote: »
    VoLTE, basic voice access combined with 5G 700 MHz coverage from 2020. Is it an option?

    Still scratching my head why three havent provisioned VOLTE.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    ED E wrote: »
    Still scratching my head why three havent provisioned VOLTE.

    Maybe because coverage is not quite there yet, and they have additional complications with respect to being able to handover calls from and tongue three and legacy o2 network.


This discussion has been closed.
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