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Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

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  • #6752
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,198 ✭✭✭PressRun


    ammc wrote: »
    It makes you wonder though if Horan seen the storm coming down the road and decided the time was right to step aside. And for the players(or a cohort) to blame Horan for their failings definitely says alot about the players that Horan put his trust in

    Horan stepped aside because of actions by members of the county board. This is well known.

    I know for a fact that Horan is very well-liked and is still on very good terms with players he brought on under his time in charge. He was missed when he left. He didn't get everything right clearly, and anyone can see that. But I would seriously question the notion that players sought to blame him or throw him under the bus, and it's bad form to drag him into it in order to settle some score. Even if there was some major issue with Horan, that's between Horan and the players. It's not for Holmes and Connelly to tell some journalist in a national newspaper just because they want to get a dig in. That's not their story to tell.


  • #6753
    TCDStudent1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭TCDStudent1


    PressRun wrote: »
    Horan stepped aside because of actions by members of the county board. This is well known.

    I know for a fact that Horan is very well-liked and is still on very good terms with players he brought on under his time in charge. He was missed when he left. He didn't get everything right clearly, and anyone can see that. But I would seriously question the notion that players sought to blame him or throw him under the bus, and it's bad form to drag him into it in order to settle some score. Even if there was some major issue with Horan, that's between Horan and the players. It's not for Holmes and Connelly to tell some journalist in a national newspaper just because they want to get a dig in. That's not their story to tell.

    No manager gets everything right but Horan not doing anything to combat Donaghy in 2014 is a huge blot on his tenure.

    2015 Mayo v 2016 Mayo - who would win? I still think the 2015 team were better. That might not be down to management though.

    Interestingly, nobody is really saying that it wasn't tom cunniffe's place to say what he did like they are saying about H&C.


  • #6754
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,198 ✭✭✭PressRun


    TCDStudent1 wrote: »
    No manager gets everything right but Horan not doing anything to combat Donaghy in 2014 is a huge blot on his tenure.

    2015 Mayo v 2016 Mayo - who would win? I still think the 2015 team were better. That might not be down to management though.

    Interestingly, nobody is really saying that it wasn't tom cunniffe's place to say what he did like they are saying about H&C.

    Tom Cunniffe wasn't right to do what he did and plenty of people did say that at the time. Tom Cunniffe will likely never play for Mayo again.

    Like I said, Horan wasn't perfect, but he was liked and was missed, and to insinuate that the players blamed him for their own failures is, in my opinion, out of line. Regardless of what was or wasn't said about Horan, Holmes and Connelly were not involved in his set-up and it's not for them to pass comment on how players felt about his management, especially since it was Horan who laid the foundations that they wanted to capitalise on. That's something to be resolved between individuals and Horan himself. In any case, I would have reservations about the context of that aspect of the story.

    We are better defensively than we were in 2015 and spent much of the last year adjusting to a new style of play and still got further than 2015. Rochford is trying something new, which is obviously going to take time to come together. And as always we're missing a dynamic forward. Which is the one constant ongoing issue.


  • #6755
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    You see the thing about all of this is it would be far more relevant if it were 19/12/2015 and not 19/12/2016.

    IMO the Mayo players performances in 2016 showed us that egos in the camp are far less of a problem than people make them out to be.

    If egos were a problem this team would have not got past Fermanagh, and there is no way they would have beaten the footballing powerhouse and managerial genius that is Tyrone and Mickie Hearte.

    As another poster said all this will just make them more determined next year.

    I see the Indo had a few lines saying that the Mayo camp were not commenting on all of this, no s**t Sherlock.

    The sad fact for all who deny the existence of the "egos" is that no all ireland was won in 2016. They can huff and puff all they like about this team and how great they are but they did not win an all ireland.

    If the "egos" in the panel next year we can write off 2017 as well. Interesting that among Mayo all stars this year there are no "egos"


  • #6756
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    I would 100% claim that 'we couldn't know for sure' - simply because that is the nonsense logic you use to dismiss perfectly reasonable points. Im just giving you your own back. If you don't like it then maybe you should consider your own posting style?

    As for the reason we haven't won an all Ireland - we have yet to be seen as the favourite for a final, so straight away we are fighting uphill. We have yet to get a single break from a ref in a final (something I accredit to refs being very clearly swayed by public perception and media in the gaa, but that is for another day). We got tactics wrong too on occasion (which players were lambasted for acknowledging, even though the likes of breheny stated the very same in the past), but more often than not, we were just not as good as the other team, which will generally happen when you aren't the best team in the country at that time...

    And yet, we are getting closer and closer to overthrowing these teams. I think we could do it this year coming to be honest. Sometimes it seems we the mayo fans need to be dragged kicking and screaming into reality.

    Truth be told, in this article, all the two lads have done is show how out of touch they were with managing teams of that nature. They come across quite 'stoneage' and headmaster-ish in their approach, and it is clear to me that they were not the right men for this role.

    Ah the referees have not been mentioned for a while. I had forgotton that they were against us in all the various finals \ semis we lost.

    Ah the media they are always against us as well.

    Tactics at least are our own responsibility. Managers generally decide them and players execute them. Always hard to know with a loss if problem was tactics or execution of them.

    H & C stoneage !! Patrick Holmes and Seamus only managers to win national titles with Mayo seniors in last 65 years. Another inconvenient truth to go along with fact that current team have won no national title. Maybe the "egos" should show us what a wonderful bunch they are by winning league next year. Expect that majority will not be arsed as beneath them. The non egos will as usual be busting their guts in the spring.


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  • #6757
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    Bambi wrote: »
    The last Mayo team that deserved an all Ireland is the last mayo team that won an all Ireland.

    This is the best and most incisive post on this thread ever. I agree 100%


  • #6758
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    That's a stretch in my opinion.

    If the "egos" were that powerful why did Clarke start the 6 games between Galway and the replay ?

    Simple really the egos wanted to get to the final.


  • #6759
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    Oldtree wrote: »
    gonna get that put on a t-shirt :D

    T shirt a good idea.On mine I will put

    "Egos" 4 Road"

    Mayo 4 Sam

    Maybe needs a bit more work. Any better ideas out there


  • #6760
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    Interesting that no one has mentioned a Connaught Title as an achievement.

    Either to counter a claim that Mayo has won nothing for years, or to point out that they failed to win it this year under Rochford.

    Is that title really so insignificant?

    And the league, seems like it's just a series of practice matches for the championship, (until the specter if relegation looms.)

    And then look at Dublin taking serious pride in winning EVERY match they play.

    Are Mayo just banking everything on the last 2 or 3 matches in Croke Park?


  • #6761
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    Robeman wrote: »
    T shirt a good idea.On mine I will put

    "Egos" 4 Road"

    Mayo 4 Sam

    Maybe needs a bit more work. Any better ideas out there

    How about:

    "Just Play Football."


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  • #6762
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    PressRun wrote: »
    One of the major issues with the article is the way in which Holmes and Connelly make thinly veiled suggestions and insinuations to cast aspersions on Rochford's ability to manage. The Hennelly stuff is a prime example. This along with the comments about Horan are well below the belt. It's not for them to reveal how players felt about Horan (information which was presumably told to them in confidence) or to make suggestions about what's going on in Stephen Rochford's dressing room. Suggestions of this kind undermines the management. Just because they were incapable of managing doesn't mean everyone is. As I said before, things were under control under Horan. It's not a coincidence that the players suddenly became "unmanagable" under Holmes and Connelly.

    As said in one of the newspaper articles you need to read between the lines. Every name in the articles is there for a reason. The question is what is the reason.

    In your last two lines above you have gone as close as anyone on this site to revealing the whole truth of the coup. It may not be intentional but in the last two lines you are really close to hitting the nail on the head.

    I agree with you 100% "its not a coincidence"


  • #6763
    Robeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭Robeman


    PressRun wrote: »
    Horan stepped aside because of actions by members of the county board. This is well known.

    I know for a fact that Horan is very well-liked and is still on very good terms with players he brought on under his time in charge. He was missed when he left. He didn't get everything right clearly, and anyone can see that. But I would seriously question the notion that players sought to blame him or throw him under the bus, and it's bad form to drag him into it in order to settle some score. Even if there was some major issue with Horan, that's between Horan and the players. It's not for Holmes and Connelly to tell some journalist in a national newspaper just because they want to get a dig in. That's not their story to tell.

    I like this post as once again you are getting very close.

    In many great detective stories sometimes the detective wastes a lot of time trying to find a motive for why someone wanted to kill the victim. What is not seen until much later in the plot in that the murder was not comitted to get rid of the victim but was rather done to create an opening to bring in or back someone else. The victim being an innocent bystander to a certain extent.

    I am a writer in my spare time and I thought I would share this insight with you all to take your minds off football and encourage you to buy more detective novels (my favourite genre) this Christmas.


  • #6764
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,232 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    StewartGriffin wrote: »
    Interesting that no one has mentioned a Connaught Title as an achievement.

    Either to counter a claim that Mayo has won nothing for years, or to point out that they failed to win it this year under Rochford.

    Is that title really so insignificant?

    And the league, seems like it's just a series of practice matches for the championship, (until the specter if relegation looms.)

    And then look at Dublin taking serious pride in winning EVERY match they play.

    Are Mayo just banking everything on the last 2 or 3 matches in Croke Park?

    Connacht titles are very significant, all provincial titles are, they give teams a very good platform to advance in the All Ireland series, far better than going through the qualifiers.

    Mayo were lucky in 2016 that they got home draws and avoided Dublin in the QF.

    As for the league I'd like to see Mayo make a good go of it sometime, winning something would do no harm, but the counter is that they need to rest some guys and blood others.

    Dublin have the squad depth to be competitive in the league and blood players at the same time.


  • #6765
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Bambi wrote: »
    Cartman78 wrote: »
    The squad deserves to win an All-Ireland, regardless of who's managing them or how many egos are in the dressing room

    The last Mayo team that deserved an all Ireland is the last mayo team that won an all Ireland.
    I can see what you mean there but I think anyone that watches GAA (or any sport) knows that the most deserving team don't necessarily always win.
    Who knows - maybe the Mayo team in 1951 got every bounce of the ball and every 50/50 referring decision going their way and robbed the title of an unlucky Meath team.


  • #6766
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Bambi wrote: »
    Cartman78 wrote: »
    The squad deserves to win an All-Ireland, regardless of who's managing them or how many egos are in the dressing room

    The last Mayo team that deserved an all Ireland is the last mayo team that won an all Ireland.
    I can see what you mean there but I think anyone that watches GAA (or any sport) knows that the most deserving team don't necessarily always win.
    Who knows - maybe the Mayo team in 1951 got every bounce of the ball and every 50/50 referring decision going their way and robbed the title off an unlucky Meath team?


  • #6767
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Robeman wrote: »
    Ah the referees have not been mentioned for a while. I had forgotton that they were against us in all the various finals \ semis we lost.

    Ah the media they are always against us as well.

    Tactics at least are our own responsibility. Managers generally decide them and players execute them. Always hard to know with a loss if problem was tactics or execution of them.

    H & C stoneage !! Patrick Holmes and Seamus only managers to win national titles with Mayo seniors in last 65 years. Another inconvenient truth to go along with fact that current team have won no national title. Maybe the "egos" should show us what a wonderful bunch they are by winning league next year. Expect that majority will not be arsed as beneath them. The non egos will as usual be busting their guts in the spring.

    Patrick Holmes... What I have suspected for a while on this thread has
    become clear - you are his mother aren't you?

    It is hard to execute a plan poorly, when you don't have one... Except lump every ball in on top of AOS (the guy we have so many issues with). Maybe if you done less grandstanding and examined more actual details, I could take you some ways seriously?

    They were completely stoneage - that is apparent in even their own version of events -if you cant see that it isn't my problem. As for their managing prowess, is that the 'Patrick' Holmes who let Diarmuid Connolly run rampant for the entire club final? Or the same Connelly who couldn't get hollymount - the head and shoulders standout team in intermediate throughout his tenure, over the line? (they have managed it since he left). Maybe it isn't only the players '''''egos''''', that were the problem?

    As for the media, if you cant see that, again, that is your issue. Keegan is the best all round player in the game, the papers paint him as ryan mcmenamin on steroids. Did they ever do that with markers like marc o'se or tom o'sullivan? In the build up to the first final, the same pundits were laughing off what McMahon was going to do with AOS. 'Aidan will need to keep his concentration because Philly wont give him anything soft'. That is a guy who gouged donaghy's eye, headbutted AOS, and dragged his boot across the gooch's head... If you cant see the difference in attitude there, you are blind.

    But look, there is a solution to this. Stay away from mayo matches until the guys you have an issue with are gone. Nobody is forcing you to support them.


  • #6768
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    It is comical that people are now saying the players turned on horan, for stating what every single fan and pundit, including themselves, have been non-stop stating since the 2012 final, the 2013 final and the 2014 semi final - horan got matchups wrong and lacked a defensive plan...

    Id actually consider their ability to see what went wrong as a good thing - it shows they can think for themselves and learn from their mistakes.


  • #6769
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,198 ✭✭✭PressRun


    The players didn't turn on Horan and I have a serious problem with that insinuation in the interview (among other things mentioned) and it casts doubt on many of the other claims. They knew what the problems were and I'm sure said so honestly to Horan himself too. He's not a stranger to them.


  • #6770
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    PressRun wrote: »
    The players didn't turn on Horan and I have a serious problem with that insinuation in the interview (among other things mentioned) and it casts doubt on many of the other claims. They knew what the problems were and I'm sure said so honestly to Horan himself too. He's not a stranger to them.

    Does it not beg the question that if tactics and player match up were such a problem for the players under H&C why they didn`t appear to be a problem under Horan to the same extent ?
    It`s not as if Horan was blameless in either during his reign.


  • #6771
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    The question that hasn't been answered on here is who changed the goalie for the replay?
    If Rochford was forced into it then he has no business being mayo manager in my view. He should resign immediately.


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  • #6772
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Cartman78 wrote: »
    I can see what you mean there but I think anyone that watches GAA (or any sport) knows that the most deserving team don't necessarily always win.

    It seems a lot of mayo folk take one marginal call and go "only for that" while ignoring every other call that went their way. If you relying on everything going your way to win then good luck.

    A team deserves an all ireland when they win one. Hunger and hurt and all that guff means nothing


  • #6773
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    The question that hasn't been answered on here is who changed the goalie for the replay?
    If Rochford was forced into it then he has no business being mayo manager in my view. He should resign immediately.

    Ah come off it ffs. Do you honestly believe that all these fellas who are dedicating their lives to this pursuit, would stay quiet and say nothing if that happened? Do you think McEntee would be driving from Armagh or Buckley from Clare numerous times a week with something like that going on? Do you think that Rochford - an all Ireland winner - would allow one player to tell him who to pick in goals?

    Has it not occurred to you that hennelly has a more suitable skillset to the modern style of goalkeeping? The same way barry moran is probably a style of midfielder who is now out of fashion?

    Obviously it is a tight call between the two. Rochford tried to catch Dublin unawares by switching gk in the hope that it would upset Dublin's attacking plan. He pre-empted that they would push up hard on Clarke after the semi, and so tried to do a jimmy mcguinness by going over the top of their press and getting at their defence on the counter. Keegan had been bombing on constantly for the second ball for this very reason - we scored a goal from this very move. It was a tactical decision - one that was exactly in line with the ones rochford had been making all year.

    But that probably makes too much sense for the conspiracy theorists around here


  • #6774
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,232 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    The question that hasn't been answered on here is who changed the goalie for the replay?
    If Rochford was forced into it then he has no business being mayo manager in my view. He should resign immediately.


    The article said that the O'Sheas lobbied for Hennelly to be the goalkeeper back in spring 2015 because they preferred his kickouts.

    We have no idea if that is even true, all we have are the words of two ousted managers.

    Now people are jumping to the conclusion that the O'Sheas were responsible for the keeper change in the final.

    If I recall the talk some time after the final was that it was Tony McEntee that was the originator of the keeper change idea, that theory is far more believable than the O'Sheas theory.

    That's what selectors are for after all.


  • #6775
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Robeman wrote: »
    Bambi wrote: »
    The last Mayo team that deserved an all Ireland is the last mayo team that won an all Ireland.

    This is the best and most incisive post on this thread ever. I agree 100%
    Really?? It sounds like something Donald Trump would come out with - a populist soundbite that makes sense until you think about it for more than 5 seconds


  • #6776
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Bambi wrote: »
    Cartman78 wrote: »
    I can see what you mean there but I think anyone that watches GAA (or any sport) knows that the most deserving team don't necessarily always win.

    It seems a lot of mayo folk take one marginal call and go "only for that" while ignoring every other call that went their way. If you relying on everything going your way to win then good luck.

    A team deserves an all ireland when they win one. Hunger and hurt and all that guff means nothing
    We're probably veering towards the murky area of pedantry at this stage but surely you can understand the concept of a team deserving to win something but not actually winning it for whatever reason?


  • #6777
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Cartman78 wrote: »
    Really?? It sounds like something Donald Trump would come out with - a populist soundbite that makes sense until you think about it for more than 5 seconds

    Mayo have the best soundbites, a lot of people say that. Soundbites like you won't believe. Believe me. bIGLY


  • #6778
    Cartman78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,101 ✭✭✭✭Cartman78


    Bambi wrote: »
    Cartman78 wrote: »
    Really?? It sounds like something Donald Trump would come out with - a populist soundbite that makes sense until you think about it for more than 5 seconds

    Mayo have the best soundbites, a lot of people say that. Soundbites like you won't believe. Believe me. bIGLY
    haha....maybe we should build a wall around the dressing room and keep all the egos out :D


  • #6779
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Bambi wrote: »
    It seems a lot of mayo folk take one marginal call and go "only for that" while ignoring every other call that went their way. If you relying on everything going your way to win then good luck.

    A team deserves an all ireland when they win one. Hunger and hurt and all that guff means nothing

    What calls went their way though? The AOS penalty? The guy was being fouled before the ball was kicked anyway, plus they won by more than 3 points anyway. So, what are these calls? Because I can rattle off some genuine calls that were the difference in winning and losing, that were wrong and went against mayo.


  • #6780
    charlie1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭charlie1980


    The Mayo boys washing their dirty linen out in public again.Will they ever learn?

    If Clarke has any self respect, he should f**k off and have nothing to do with that outfit.


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  • #6781
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Ah come off it ffs. Do you honestly believe that all these fellas who are dedicating their lives to this pursuit, would stay quiet and say nothing if that happened? Do you think McEntee would be driving from Armagh or Buckley from Clare numerous times a week with something like that going on? Do you think that Rochford - an all Ireland winner - would allow one player to tell him who to pick in goals?

    Has it not occurred to you that hennelly has a more suitable skillset to the modern style of goalkeeping? The same way barry moran is probably a style of midfielder who is now out of fashion?

    Obviously it is a tight call between the two. Rochford tried to catch Dublin unawares by switching gk in the hope that it would upset Dublin's attacking plan. He pre-empted that they would push up hard on Clarke after the semi, and so tried to do a jimmy mcguinness by going over the top of their press and getting at their defence on the counter. Keegan had been bombing on constantly for the second ball for this very reason - we scored a goal from this very move. It was a tactical decision - one that was exactly in line with the ones rochford had been making all year.

    But that probably makes too much sense for the conspiracy theorists around here

    "Hennely has the more suitable skill set to the modern style of goalkeeping"
    He really proved that in the replay
    Please tell me ur having a laugh!


This discussion has been closed.
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