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Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

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Comments

  • #9992
    dropping_bombs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭dropping_bombs


    Who would be top of the list to resign for next season after this wave of extensions?


  • #9993
    BrokenMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭BrokenMan


    dropping_bombs wrote: »
    Who would be top of the list to resign for next season after this wave of extensions?
    Cooney for me


  • #9994
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    BrokenMan wrote: »
    Cooney for me

    Yeah I agree. The only thing is we have a lot of promising talent at 9 with Blade and Kerins coming through. Be tough to keep Cooney with Pienaar leaving Ulster but thought the same last season I suppose.

    Eoghan Masterson is another important player to keep but I doubt he would have much interest in moving.


  • #9995
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    Yeah I agree. The only thing is we have a lot of promising talent at 9 with Blade and Kerins coming through. Be tough to keep Cooney with Pienaar leaving Ulster but thought the same last season I suppose.

    Eoghan Masterson is another important player to keep but I doubt he would have much interest in moving.

    Maybe he likes it in Galway, or has no interest in moving to NI?

    Personally I think if Connacht offer Cooney a contract he'll sign it.


  • #9996
    Bazzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    I would love to retain Cooney but I'd have Muldoon, Masterson, McKeon, Fox-Matamua and Heffernan ahead of him as must retains.


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  • #9997
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    awec wrote: »
    Maybe he likes it in Galway, or has no interest in moving to NI?

    Maybe but with the form Marmion is in it's hard to see him becoming first choice here and he is good enough to be first choice somewhere, if he could catch a break with fitness.

    Signing a year extension last year struck as me as a bit unusual too as if moving to Ulster had been suggested somewhere along the line but might as well wait until Pienaar moves on.


  • #9998
    ClanofLams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Bazzo wrote: »
    I would love to retain Cooney but I'd have Muldoon, Masterson, McKeon, Fox-Matamua and Heffernan ahead of him as must retains.

    It's a fair point. I didn't think many of those were likely to leave but I suppose can never be sure.


  • #9999
    case885
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭case885


    awec wrote:
    Maybe he likes it in Galway, or has no interest in moving to NI?

    awec wrote:
    Personally I think if Connacht offer Cooney a contract he'll sign it.


    Anytime a player from another province is mentioned about joining Ulster you seem to bring this up, Belfast isn't the other side of the world its a nice city.
    If Cooney has ambitions of being no 2 scrumhalf for Ireland then he should definitely move to Ulster. Cooney had no trouble swapping Dublin for Galway so Belfast isn't that much different.


  • #10000
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    Maybe he likes it in Galway, or has no interest in moving to NI?

    Personally I think if Connacht offer Cooney a contract he'll sign it.

    Maybe, but Ulster should still be trying to tempt him up. With the lure of regular first team rugby he'd want to have a damn fine reason to pass that up. I'm not at all convinced that he would. He moved for more game time and to further his career. He'd surely move again for the same reason.


  • #10001
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    case885 wrote: »
    Anytime a player from another province is mentioned about joining Ulster you seem to bring this up, Belfast isn't the other side of the world its a nice city.
    If Cooney has ambitions of being no 2 scrumhalf for Ireland then he should definitely move to Ulster. Cooney had no trouble swapping Dublin for Galway so Belfast isn't that much different.

    Well it's pretty different in fairness, politics aside you are moving to a different country. People keep thinking that Ulster just have to come calling and these guys will jump at the chance, but that does not tally with reality. Ulster have been turned down before by players, players who are not regulars at other provinces and would be at Ulster.

    The only moves to NI that have happened in recent times have been players who couldn't get deals elsewhere. Ross, Shanahan, Lloyd, O'Connor, all guys rejected by their own province or picked up from club rugby. Ah You moved, but he is not Irish and has already moved to the other side of the world anyway.


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  • #10002
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    case885 wrote: »
    Anytime a player from another province is mentioned about joining Ulster you seem to bring this up, Belfast isn't the other side of the world its a nice city.
    If Cooney has ambitions of being no 2 scrumhalf for Ireland then he should definitely move to Ulster. Cooney had no trouble swapping Dublin for Galway so Belfast isn't that much different.

    It's a handy cop out that allows him to continue to blame the IRFU and Nucifora in particular for Ulsters woes while also throwing stuff people here have said to him back at them. He has said in the past that the IRFU should be forcing players to move and we pointed out that they can't force people to do that. So now that's his cast iron excuse for why Ulster haven't signed someone like Cooney.

    My big concern for Ulster is that they aren't making any effort to target Cooney (or someone like him) and it will come back to haunt them while they moan and whinge about what might have been if only the blessed Peinaar was there.


  • #10003
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    molloyjh wrote: »
    It's a handy cop out that allows him to continue to blame the IRFU and Nucifora in particular for Ulsters woes while also throwing stuff people here have said to him back at them. He has said in the past that the IRFU should be forcing players to move and we pointed out that they can't force people to do that. So now that's his cast iron excuse for why Ulster haven't signed someone like Cooney.

    My big concern for Ulster is that they aren't making any effort to target Cooney (or someone like him) and it will come back to haunt them while they moan and whinge about what might have been if only the blessed Peinaar was there.

    It's not really a cop out, it's based on facts.

    People love throwing these names out. Robin Copeland is another cracking example, people saying Ulster should be targetting him. Copeland has turned Ulster down on multiple ocassions, despite what some might think Ulster don't just come knocking and players come running. "Oh but you'll play for us more often" doesn't really cut it.

    People assume that when Ulster don't sign these guys it's because they didn't speak to them. 100% total and absolute rubbish.


  • #10004
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    People keep thinking that Ulster just have to come calling and these guys will jump at the chance

    No they don't, no matter how many times you keep saying they do.


  • #10005
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    It's not really a cop out, it's based on facts.

    There wasn't a single fact in your initial post.


  • #10006
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    molloyjh wrote: »
    There wasn't a single fact in your initial post.
    awec wrote: »
    The only moves to NI that have happened in recent times have been players who couldn't get deals elsewhere. Ross, Shanahan, Lloyd, O'Connor, all guys rejected by their own province or picked up from club rugby. Ah You moved, but he is not Irish and has already moved to the other side of the world anyway.

    Can you disprove this? Happy to be proven wrong if you can name me some under-used, semi-established Irish players who have moved from other provinces to NI for game time.


  • #10007
    case885
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭case885


    awec wrote:
    Well it's pretty different in fairness, politics aside you are moving to a different country. People keep thinking that Ulster just have to come calling and these guys will jump at the chance, but that does not tally with reality. Ulster have been turned down before by players, players who are not regulars at other provinces and would be at Ulster.


    Well if a player is looking to leave for more game time then it will involve leaving the country anyway to England or France, moving to Ulster would mean there available for Irish selection which can play a big part in the players decision. JJ and Chris Farrell are reportedly joining Munster to get back into Irish contention.
    Nucifora could play a big part in getting players to switch to Ulster.


  • #10008
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I know we are not great, but do people honestly believe ulster haven't spoken to John cooney?

    Sorry, but that's just insane. If he doesn't sign for us it will not be because ulster didn't bother speaking to him.


  • #10009
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    awec wrote: »
    I know we are not great, but do people honestly believe ulster haven't spoken to John cooney?

    Sorry, but that's just insane. If he doesn't sign for us it will not be because ulster didn't bother speaking to him.

    Stranger things have happened


  • #10010
    case885
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭case885


    awec wrote:
    Sorry, but that's just insane. If he doesn't sign for us it will not be because ulster didn't bother speaking to him.


    Well if his reasoning is because he has to move country up to Belfast then there has to be serious questions asked of him which I'm sure will be nuciforas job. It's not just for the benefit of Ulster, Ireland need more quality at scrumhalf and Cooney starting regularly for Ulster will help that.
    I really don't see the negatives of joining Ulster that your saying all these players see.


  • #10011
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    oneofakind32 wrote: »
    Lads, we have to get John Cooney playing at 10 ASAP. Carty just isn't at Champions Cup standard.... 
    Oh no, wait, sorry! That was last week. On boards.ie, as at the Sportsground, the wind can change very quickly. ;)

    While he did make two hard kicks, he missed an equally easier one.

    It buys him another opportunity but an out half is paid to make those hard kicks.. thats why they're supposed to be elite, sure they're not expected to nail every single one but you're expecting a decent return.

    However nailing the 80% ones is a neccessity and he still misses at least one of them per game.

    Let's just see how he goes forward, I have nothing personal against him and if his kicking has dramatically improved since the game then that's great but I just don't see how much better you can get at that when you're 24 and playing professionally for so long.

    If he kicks poorly, he's a pro, he should be called on it.
    If he kicks well, he deserves credit.
    No point using that retrospectively when the conversion figures spoke for themselves pre-game.


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  • #10012
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,001 ✭✭✭connachta


    10000 posts past!
    I did the preview for part IV
    Here you are gents!

    https://www.boards.ie/b/thread/2057684211?fuid=0


  • #10013
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,779 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    Can you disprove this? Happy to be proven wrong if you can name me some under-used, semi-established Irish players who have moved from other provinces to NI for game time.

    That wasn't your initial post.
    awec wrote: »
    I know we are not great, but do people honestly believe ulster haven't spoken to John cooney?

    Sorry, but that's just insane. If he doesn't sign for us it will not be because ulster didn't bother speaking to him.

    You see this is exactly why people take issue with your posts. At no time have I ever made a definitive statement about what Ulster have or have not done. I have said they should talk to Cooney and I'd be surprised if they couldn't tempt him up. In the past I've said that I've seen no indication that Ulster have looked to approach the kind of guys we're all saying that they should. I've also said that it's possible that they have though.

    The only one making definitive statements that they can't in any way back up is you.

    Ulster is not feckin' Mordor. If no players are going up there, but are going elsewhere, then at some point you've got to ask are enough players being asked or is Ulster being sold well enough. There's simply no way that every single Irish player of any use that Ulster should be looking at are all going to say no. By dint of sheer numbers at least 1 should have gone up at this stage. After all, the failures you're talking about did. So why are they the only ones saying yes to Ulster?

    You can't force players to move, but you can convince and motivate them to. If the other provinces are able to do that and Ulster are not you have to question whether that's an issue with Belfast or an issue with Ulster Rugby. There are certainly additional factors to consider over Galway, Limerick or Dublin. But like I said, the place isn't Mordor either.

    Anywa, this is the Connacht thread so.....


  • #10014
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,887 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Part 4 of thread here; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057684211


This discussion has been closed.
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