El Presidente Trump

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 12:27PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I doubt any trump supporters would hold that against him. I'd say they would just call it a case of trump using his influence.

I don't think they will hold trump to the same standards as any other politician. In fact, I doubt trump supporters have any standards in mind because they're not used to being the core demographic. No politician in recent history has campaigned specifically to the poorly educated as their core demographic, so I think they'll let him away with almost anything in return.

Man! Ye lot just can't let go of that little bone, can ye. It's great.
I wonder if you analysed the actual college goer vote, how many "gender studies" tier courses voted Hillary or Trump vs how many actual useful courses in engineering, science or history voted Hillary or Trump.

It would be quite sweet to taste if a lot of the votes he did secure, came from courses with futures that don't include putting protest names on a Starbucks cup, or looking like this.
So educated they didn't even need to finish! :pac:

Galway_Old_Man · 20-12-2016 12:33PM

Wait so after all the sh!tehawking in the media about faithless electors, it's Hillary who ends up getting a record number of them voting against her (for the past 100 years)? Hahaha!

And I thought this election had given up all its hilarity already.

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 12:38PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

True in a way. I think Obama tried to solve these problems in the long term while it's easier to argue for containing the problem in the short term.

Right now it's in vogue to keep the dictator in power and use them to contain the people's frustration at being subjugated - solve the problem for today and click the can 20 years down the road.

A few years ago it was in vogue to ask why we kept dictators in power rather than toppling them -saddam in Iraq is an exsmle

Thank the media for that, as I'm sure you're aware. This little story here:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro

Is precisely why "the people needed to be freed from the evil dictator! WMDS!!!".

Although I'm sure there's a much longer, windier way of saying that, so it'll show on the radar of someone as highly educated and intelligent as your good self :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 01:00PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Man! Ye lot just can't let go of that little bone, can ye. It's great. I wonder if you analysed the actual college goer vote, how many "gender studies" tier courses voted Hillary or Trump vs how many actual useful courses in engineering, science or history voted Hillary or Trump.

I'm not sure where the vitriol is about. His core voters are clear. But you didn't address my pint at all.

His core demographic was poorly educated people. Obviously he picked up votes from people with specialist interests too -e.g. lower personal and corporate tax rates etc.

His rhetoric was aimed specifically at the poorly educated. He never made an argument in more than a sentence or 2. Never used complicated terms etc. Tabloids write to their demographics' reading age and interests, so did Trump campaign to his demographic in terms they would understand.

In return, they won't hold him to any normal standards in the way they hold other politicians to normal standards.

ebbsy · 20-12-2016 01:03PM

I thought he did well with the white college educated ?

Then again with the media spouting so much bull**** you would not know what to believe.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 01:08PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Thank the media for that, as I'm sure you're aware. This little story here:

You're talking past what I said. Not sure why you're quoting me to monologue about something tangentially related.

These things come in and go out of fashion. In the last few weeks there have been a lot of articles about how getting rid of Gaddafi, Saddam and Assad are terrible ideas.

In the recent past the narrative was more about questioning why we work with these dictators rather than toppling them. Both approaches have pros and cons in the short/long term.

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Although I'm sure there's a much longer, windier way of saying that, so it'll show on the radar of someone as highly educated and intelligent as your good self

Since youre

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 01:12PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Thank the media for that, as I'm sure you're aware. This little story here:

You're talking past what I said. Not sure why you're quoting me to monologue about something tangentially related.

These things come in and go out of fashion. In the last few weeks there have been a lot of articles about how getting rid of Gaddafi, Saddam and Assad are terrible ideas.

In the recent past the narrative was more about questioning why we work with these dictators rather than toppling them. Both approaches have pros and cons in the short/long term.

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Although I'm sure there's a much longer, windier way of saying that, so it'll show on the radar of someone as highly educated and intelligent as your good self

Is this where we need to have the conversation? Making jokes about each other's education. Could we just discussed the issue instead?

PopePalpatine · 20-12-2016 01:13PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Obama didn't act on the world stage.

Says the guy who called him "the founding father of ISIS" - without any proof of course.

He is too busy worrying about what toilet people are pissing into etc.

Wait, when did Obama turn into a Bible-thumping
Republican?

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 01:20PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're talking past what I said. Not sure why you're quoting me to monologue about something tangentially related.

These things come in and go out of fashion. In the last few weeks there have been a lot of articles about how getting rid of Gaddafi, Saddam and Assad are terrible ideas.

In the recent past the narrative was more about questioning why we work with these dictators rather than toppling them. Both approaches have pros and cons in the short/long term.

Nothing came or went into/out of fashion, removing these people was always a bad idea. I was threatened with failure of tests in secondary if I didn't stop arguing that point and start arguing why it was good. Education me hole...
It goes back further than that. Funding the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan in the 80s was a bad idea, the Haavara agreement between the Nazis and the Jews - which we completed btw - was a bad idea. They're only good to the people who make money from the unrest these ideas generate.

These ideas are going to backfire, erm, bigly...
The gobby lad doesn't have great ideas, but he has different ones. The current ones are guaranteed to go bad.

MadYaker · 20-12-2016 01:21PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Obama didn't act on the world stage. That is why we have Germany France Syria etc. He is too busy worrying about what toilet people are pissing into etc.

I don't see what that has to do with his wife though? You continously mention her, what your fixation with her?

Galway_Old_Man · 20-12-2016 01:23PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Obama didn't act on the world stage.

Ah that's not fair. President Obama had a robust interest in weddings in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

ebbsy · 20-12-2016 01:26PM

Galway_Old_Man wrote: »

Ah that's not fair. President Obama had a robust interest in weddings in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Christy42 · 20-12-2016 01:35PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Says the guy who called him "the founding father of ISIS" - without any proof of course.

Wait, when did Obama turn into a Bible-thumping
Republican?

Sometimes you have to realise that you aren't going to get a serious response. How posters start a topic and their history gives a good guide to whether or not a discussion could happen.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 01:38PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

These ideas are going to backfire, erm, bigly... The gobby lad doesn't have great ideas, but he has different ones. The current ones are guaranteed to go bad.

His ideas are new in the old fashioned way. He wants to work with the dictators like we used to until Saddam & Gaddafi. Working with the dictator contains the problem in the short term by subjugating the locals which builds into a longer term problem which has to be dealt with in the future. It's not new and it's not a Panacea.

If you follow the process you can trace long term cause and effect. If you just focus on the present then it becomes easier to simply put a lid on it and work with the dictator for a quiet life in the moment

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 01:50PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're talking past what I said. Not sure why you're quoting me to monologue about something tangentially related.

Far more than just tangentially. You mentioned it was in vogue for people to want evil dictator Hussein removed and I explained why. Because the narrative demanded it.

The value of the world's reserve currency isn't just peopped by trade. Think about why so many countries have dollars. The fact they have them, just makes trade easier. Why do they have them?
It's demand. Demand for something makes it's value rise. And all the big oil countries sell their oil in Dollars. So just about every country on the planet needs to exchange their currency for Dollars, to buy oil. That's a lot of demand. It's also the only reason US bonds are a remotely attractive prospect - as long as the the US dollar is in demand...

The second a large oil exporter accepts other currencies for their oil, it puts the world's reserve currency under threat. It's a matter of survival now for the American system that any threats evil dictators are removed and people freed from their tyranny.

Like Saddam.
Or Gaddafi who was accepting other currencies for Lybias resources.
Or Assad, who was - trust me, the pattern gets predictable...
But Russia is different. They're decoupling, but they can't be invaded. They can be poked with the loss of their warm water access, and crippled with sanctions for taking it back, they can be battered by crashing the price of oil below the actual cost of their difficult production. And they can have Europe removed from their customer base by a gas and oil pipeline going directly from Saudi Arabia - who will demand US dollars instead of the much cheaper Rouble - to Europe, via the Syrian Desert -

Oh... Right..... That plan seems to have come unstuck. Good thing the dickhead with the view to cooling things dow got in and not the **** who guaranteed she'd plough on regardless...

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 01:58PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

His ideas are new in the old fashioned way. He wants to work with the dictators like we used to until Saddam & Gaddafi. Working with the dictator contains the problem in the short term by subjugating the locals which builds into a longer term problem which has to be dealt with in the future. It's not new and it's not a Panacea.

If you follow the process you can trace long term cause and effect. If you just focus on the present then it becomes easier to simply put a lid on it and work with the dictator for a quiet life in the moment

I dunno, the Middle East of the 70s had a pretty immovable lid on that crap. They should have been left away with it. Anyone looking to go back there has my support, when the other alternative is "forward"...

Any we're all subjugated to a degree, it's just much more obvious over there. Over here, you're not killed for allowing yourself to be raped, you're just jailed for not having a tv licence...

And before you suggest I'm ok with women's kot over there, I'm not. But it was a lot better for them before we "liberated" them.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 02:16PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Far more than just tangentially. You mentioned it was in vogue for people to want evil dictator Hussein removed and I explained why. Because the narrative demanded it.

Narrative/vogue, whatever. Right now it's fashionable to back the dictator again. In 15 years when we start dealing with the problems caused by working with dictators, it might swing back the other direction again.

It fits Trump's modus operandi to go for the short tems satisfying approach rather than a longer term approach. He knows the his demographic of the less educated, won't bother reading the history and won't understand the longer term implications. So he'll give them a quick fix that feels satisfying.

It's pragmatic. It has nothing to do with ideology or what's best in the long term.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 02:20PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

I dunno, the Middle East of the 70s had a pretty immovable lid on that crap. They should have been left away with it. Anyone looking to go back there has my support, when the other alternative is "forward"...

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

Any we're all subjugated to a degree, it's just much more obvious over there. Over here, you're not killed for allowing yourself to be raped, you're just jailed for not having a tv licence...

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

And before you suggest I'm ok with women's kot over there, I'm not. But it was a lot better for them before we "liberated" them.

I get it. You think propping up dictators is generally good. If you're only able to discuss one side of the topic it's a bit pointless

Renegade Mechanic · 20-12-2016 02:42PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I get it. You think propping up dictators is generally good. If you're only able to discuss one side of the topic it's a bit pointless

The only failure here, is yours in understanding the vastly different cultures and belief sets of people over there.
Our leaders would be eaten alive inside a week over there. Leaders have to be a lot harder and a lot less agreeable, from our comfortable first world perspective than our own do.

We could discuss your side but you are right to assume it's pointless, because every single time we've waded in "for the better of the people", we've made it much worse. Even in Egypt, where the transition of power wasn't violent by the standards set by the Arab Spring, the person they ended up with was so abhorrent the Military had to step in again and turf him out. Very telling btw, the freezing of all American aid to Egypt when the Muslim Brotherhood was removed, it's almost as if they wanted him there...
Either way, that dumb move opened up a door for the Russian Federation to strike up a stronger relationship that's held since.

You think it's a good idea, because you think tgese people hold the similar values to ours. Or that they even want to.
That couldn't be more dangerously wrong.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-12-2016 02:57PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

The only failure here, is yours in understanding.

Renegade Mechanic wrote:

You think it's a good idea, because you think tgese people hold the similar values to ours. Or that they even want to. That couldn't be more dangerously wrong.

No no. The misunderstanding is yours. I'm not debating the pros and cons of toppling dictators vs working with them. That's that you appear interested in doing (well you appear interested in discussing one side of the topic)

I'm commenting on what's happening at the moment. Working with dictators is coming into vogue again.

Just for craic, let me guess that if I clicked on fox news I'd find reams of articles about how working with dictators is a good idea. Maybe even using some of the same examples you keep mentioning.

ebbsy · 20-12-2016 03:35PM

I think that there should be a bank holiday on 20/01/17.

Trent Houseboat · 20-12-2016 04:11PM

ebbsy wrote:

I think that there should be a bank holiday on 20/01/17.

I'd start with getting them a day off on election day in America.

He's the least popular president elect and has won by one of the narrowest margins of all time. I'd say most people would rather just go to work/school than watch him stumble through the oath in the lobby of a gaudy Trump hotel, having it constantly repeated to him until he gets it right.
"I do bigly swear to preserve, protect and pussy grab the cons-, constan-. LINE!
The oath is biased"

Hank Scorpio · 20-12-2016 04:39PM

When all else fails, call the people with a different viewpoint dumb. How very tolerant.

California appears to be swimming with Scientist types.

As for the rest of the Country,

https://i.sli.mg/4tG354.png Hillary

https://i.sli.mg/efqo9B.jpg Trump

KingBrian2 · 20-12-2016 04:43PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

When all else fails, call the people with a different viewpoint dumb. How very tolerant.

California appears to be swimming with Scientist types.

As for the rest of the Country,

https://i.sli.mg/4tG354.png Hillary

https://i.sli.mg/efqo9B.jpg Trump

That video just shows the media is doing a awful job and Americans are totally ignorant.

B0jangles · 20-12-2016 04:43PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

As for the rest of the Country,

https://i.sli.mg/4tG354.png Hillary

https://i.sli.mg/efqo9B.jpg Trump

You keep on posting these like they mean something, do you realise that fields can't vote?

US Population density by county

pumpkin4life · 20-12-2016 04:44PM

California's like Cork.

They should just be allowed separate and leave the rest of the country alone in peace. :P

Hank Scorpio · 20-12-2016 04:45PM

Not just the media, here's what the DNC think of their own voters.

https://i.redd.it/j7c8ht81j84y.gif

Professor Moriarty · 20-12-2016 04:47PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

When all else fails, call the people with a different viewpoint dumb. How very tolerant.

California appears to be swimming with Scientist types.

As for the rest of the Country,

https://i.sli.mg/4tG354.png Hillary

https://i.sli.mg/efqo9B.jpg Trump

The Trump map is actually the film set for Deliverance.

paleoperson · 20-12-2016 04:51PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

When all else fails, call the people with a different viewpoint dumb. How very tolerant.

They have a whole complex about intelligence, equating it with it being "right". For example liberals in America are more likely to have gone to university than conservatives, so they think this makes them right. I've on many occasions even seen non college-educated being referred to as uneducated. I'm pretty sure that old people in their 40s+ have more of a clue about the world than 22 year olds who went to college. It's bizarre.

Old people who aren't in on the latest smart phone gadgets and whatsapps are "dumb".

Professor Moriarty · 20-12-2016 04:55PM

paleoperson wrote: »

They have a whole complex about intelligence, equating it with it being "right". For example liberals in America are more likely to have gone to university than conservatives, so as ridiculous as it is they think this makes them right. I've on many occasions even seen non college-educated being referred to as uneducated. I'm pretty sure that old people in their 40s+ have more of a clue about the world than 22 years olds who went to college.

It's important not to conflate intelligence and education but a person who has both intelligence and education makes better decisions than a person who has one or neither.

El Presidente Trump

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