Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Smart Light Switches

  • 19-12-2016 01:54PM
    #1
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭


    Hey Folks,

    Does anyone know about any decent Amazon Echo / IFTTT Compatible Smart Light switches that can be retro fitted? 

    My house is riddles with recessesed lights so smart bulbs are not an option for us.

    Or alternatively if there is something that can be fitted behind the switch to enable it and we just leave the light switch on. Im sure there must be products available but I cannot find them.

    Thanks,
    Fionn


«1

Comments

  • #2
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,115 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Two options often mentioned on this forum spring. to mind for you,
    These offer replacement switches or relays that go behind your existing switches that allows full remote control & automation of existing 'dumb' lights, With a control hub that connects to your router.

    LightwaveRF dedicated thread,

    & Fibaro I don't think we have a dedicated thread for them yet, but they have come up from time to time.


  • #3
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Thanks.
    So im a noob to this world.
    For that kind of setup id buy relays that go behind the existing switch or some such? Does each relay only control one light? So if I had a 4 gang switch id need 4 of those?

    Then I would also have to buy a hub also I suppose which in turn connects to my router etc?

    Bit of an investment but might be worth it


  • #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well Philips Hue smart bulbs come in GU10 format, which can be used for recessed lighting.

    Now you might have to change the bulb holder to GU10, but depending on your setup, it maybe very easy to do (I replaced 13 of mine in less then 2 hours and that included removing stupid transformers).

    LightwaveRF do smart lightswitches, though I believe they might require a bit more work in a typical Irish home (need neutral at the light switch and deeper back boxes then typical). Stoner know a lot more about LWRF then me, check out his FAQ on it.


  • #5
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    What about these Livolo switches... is there a skill or anything on Amazon? Says they work over wifi?

    http://www.livoloeurope.eu/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60_64


  • #6
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    bk wrote: »
    Well Philips Hue smart bulbs come in GU10 format, which can be used for recessed lighting.

    Now you might have to change the bulb holder to GU10, but depending on your setup, it maybe very easy to do (I replaced 13 of mine in less then 2 hours and that included removing stupid transformers).

    LightwaveRF do smart lightswitches, though I believe they might require a bit more work in a typical Irish home (need neutral at the light switch and deeper back boxes then typical). Stoner know a lot more about LWRF then me, check out his FAQ on it.

    Thanks at 50GBP a bulb id be banjaxed in no time! My sitting room alone has 8 of those!


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    fionny wrote: »
    Thanks at 50GBP a bulb id be banjaxed in no time! My sitting room alone has 8 of those!

    Sure, yup they are expensive, but pretty great too, it is the reason why so many of us are addicted to them!

    BTW The White Ambiance ones are £25 and you can sometimes get the colour+white ones for £40ish sometimes in sales, etc.


  • #8
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Those Livolo switches work via a Broadlink RM Pro Hub... Which in turn can be made to work with the Echo... might be a runner as the switches are sleek and reasonably priced too.
    Anyone done such a setup?


  • #9
    oinkely
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭oinkely


    Energenie do a single gang wifi on/off switch that works with alexa through the energenie hub. No Dimming and no multigang switches though. about £20 for a switch.

    Have one in the van, haven't installed it yet!


  • #10
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Looking further I could get the livolo switches and a Hook Hub from the US which is cheap but works with 433mhz devices... 

    http://www.hooksmarthome.com/


  • #11
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,115 ✭✭✭paulbok


    The best bit of advice I can give at this stage is don't rush into picking a particular setup/brand to start with.

    Think what you want to achieve, is it just controlling the lights, using with the Echo or will you (like every addiction) want to add other devices that will interact with your lights, eg nest smoke alarm.
    Read up on what will integrate with what.

    Nothing worse that buying kit only to discover after it won't talk to anything else.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    paulbok wrote: »
    The best bit of advice I can give at this stage is don't rush into picking a particular setup/brand to start with.

    Think what you want to achieve, is it just controlling the lights, using with the Echo or will you (like every addiction) want to add other devices that will interact with your lights, eg nest smoke alarm.
    Read up on what will integrate with what.

    Nothing worse that buying kit only to discover after it won't talk to anything else.

    Fair point. I guess the livolo switches use 433mhz but you can bridge that to work with other hubs like smarter things etc...

    It seems to be the best option available by a long shot here... It seems like a massive hole in the market.... Massive.


  • #13
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    fionny wrote: »
    It seems to be the best option available by a long shot here... It seems like a massive hole in the market.... Massive.

    The problem here is that switches in Ireland and the UK are very different to the rest of the world. So you have plenty of options in the US, because it is such a big market. But few companies willing to put in the work specifically for a smaller market like the UK and Ireland.

    You do however have Energenie and LightwaveRF doing smart switches for the UK market.


  • #14
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    bk wrote: »
    The problem here is that switches in Ireland and the UK are very different to the rest of the world. So you have plenty of options in the US, because it is such a big market. But few companies willing to put in the work specifically for a smaller market like the UK and Ireland.

    You do however have Energenie and LightwaveRF doing smart switches for the UK market.

    Ya the lightwaverf seems like a good option...

    So do you buy the relay and hide it behind the switch?

    The most is a 2 switch option?

    Then I assume you can use the smarter things hub to connect it? Or do you need a different hub first?


  • #15
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    fionny wrote: »
    Ya the lightwaverf seems like a good option...

    So do you buy the relay and hide it behind the switch?

    The most is a 2 switch option?

    Then I assume you can use the smarter things hub to connect it? Or do you need a different hub first?

    Whatever you are getting, just be aware that some devices are one way, in that they do not report status back to your hub, and I think that's a very limiting factor.

    Lots of Z wave devices about, see here as an example, disclaimer, I have no link to this crowd and have never purchased anything from them, it's just a Googled link. In fact I don't have any Z wave devices at all, I use a hardwired system.

    There are other wireless systems like cbus wireless switches but they appear to be very pricey also.

    There is a very old protocol called x10, do not go near this, it was good in its day, but dated now, and one way only.


  • #16
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    bk wrote:
    LightwaveRF do smart lightswitches, though I believe they might require a bit more work in a typical Irish home (need neutral at the light switch and deeper back boxes then typical). Stoner know a lot more about LWRF then me, check out his FAQ on it.

    Actually the ones now don't need a neutral, good call on the deeper back box though


  • #17
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    Basically so this market is anything but easy still.
    Go with Lightwave and have to get a kango out to deepen existing switch boxes?

    I'm still not clear on if you can just use the Smart Things Hub straight for the Ligthwave relays or if you must have another hub for those first?


  • #18
    paulbok
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,115 ✭✭✭paulbok


    fionny wrote: »
    Basically so this market is anything but easy still.
    Go with Lightwave and have to get a kango out to deepen existing switch boxes?

    I'm still not clear on if you can just use the Smart Things Hub straight for the Ligthwave relays or if you must have another hub for those first?


    You will need the lightwaverf hub even with the Smartthings hub, and adding lightwave devices requires a bit more work than simply adding them as an additional device (work on a PC to integrate the devices to smattthings rather than physical work - notwithstanding the physical installation of the LightwaveRF switches and sockets).
    if you are going to go down the Smartthings route and get that hub (you will need some type of hub to start with), you can get other relays for behind the switches that work directly with the ST hub, I am using Aeotec/Aeon Labs switches and have them fitted in the attic on the cable from the switch to the lights, so I didn't need to touch the actual switch or back box.
    Fibaro are also compatible with Smartthings.


  • #19
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    fionny wrote:
    Basically so this market is anything but easy still. Go with Lightwave and have to get a kango out to deepen existing switch boxes?


    No. Only some boxes will need to.be deepened

    Some can use the wireless switches if you use the inline dimmers so you wouldn't need to deepen any boxes. You can have the dinner in the ceiling space and a wireless switch that won't need a deep box

    Two way switching can be more difficult but very possible.

    Also look at fibaro units same deal , state aware but less options on the colours etc


  • #20
    fionny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭fionny


    I wont be wanting anything fancy. I have no dimmers in the house just bog standard light switches... the largest being 4 gang.

    Some of the lights do have multiple switches ie upstairs landing has a switch downstairs and upstairs (and actually one near bedroom which we're not fussed on)


  • #21
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    fionny wrote:
    I wont be wanting anything fancy. I have no dimmers in the house just bog standard light switches... the largest being 4 gang.

    Well if you are worried about the back boxes, have the switch and live wires joined, pop out the old switches use wireless switches over the space the old ones were in linked to one or three output relays


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    eddiem74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    I am starting to use Fibaro Dimmer2 modules behind my existing light switches.

    This module supports 2 wire (no neutral at switch) installation and allows on/off and dimming capability so you just need to change your bulbs to dimmable ones. Generally I have been installing the Dimmer Bypass module also as when using LEDs there is not always enough load so the lights can flicker or one light may stay on, but the bypass solves this so I always just install it by default now to minimize any issues later if bulbs change. My electrician does all wiring...

    Here is a quick overview of the installation of the prior version of the Dimmer module:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_icaFJb3Ho


    Dimmer2: http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-fibaro-universal-dimmer-2-250w
    Dimmer2 Bypass: http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-fibaro-dimmer-bypass-2
    Some Compatible controllers: http://www.vesternet.com/compatibility/filter/index/sku/FIBEFGD-212/

    I use the Home Center 2 as my controller probably overkill but I have it now. I am trying to stick with Fibaro as much as possible in the hope things work better/easier....but I am only getting started, buying items in sales and adding as I go.


  • #23
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    eddiem74 wrote: »
    I am starting to use Fibaro Dimmer2 modules behind my existing light switches.

    This module supports 2 wire (no neutral at switch) installation and allows on/off and dimming capability so you just need to change your bulbs to dimmable ones. Generally I have been installing the Dimmer Bypass module also as when using LEDs there is not always enough load so the lights can flicker or one light may stay on, but the bypass solves this so I always just install it by default now to minimize any issues later if bulbs change. My electrician does all wiring...

    Here is a quick overview of the installation of the prior version of the Dimmer module:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_icaFJb3Ho


    Dimmer2: http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-fibaro-universal-dimmer-2-250w
    Dimmer2 Bypass: http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-fibaro-dimmer-bypass-2
    Some Compatible controllers: http://www.vesternet.com/compatibility/filter/index/sku/FIBEFGD-212/

    I use the Home Center 2 as my controller probably overkill but I have it now. I am trying to stick with Fibaro as much as possible in the hope things work better/easier....but I am only getting started, buying items in sales and adding as I go.


    I would recommend anyone doing this also, not to use normal light switches but to go for the momentary or retractive switches which make much more sense for smart lighting.

    Lots of ranges of these available too.


  • #24
    eddiem74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    I would recommend anyone doing this also, not to use normal light switches but to go for the momentary or retractive switches which make much more sense for smart lighting.

    Lots of ranges of these available too.

    Agreed...I am using some Varlight momentary switches but wondering about other brands / alternatives as I need to get some more.

    Any suggestions?


  • #25
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    eddiem74 wrote: »
    Agreed...I am using some Varlight momentary switches but wondering about other brands / alternatives as I need to get some more.

    Any suggestions?


    You can go for clipsal, I had them for a good few years, but replaced them all a few years back for minigrid which look great and are in modules so you can mix and match different switch types in the same plate, see below for a clip I posted on a different forum


    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1zlDoqP2HdxYVprVkxfZ1g0Y0U

    The above is a two gang one and they come with up to three gang in a single size face plate. For four gang you would need to go double faceplate, or else something like the clipsal ones which can get up to five buttons on a single faceplate, bit not near as nice looking.

    The above clip BTW was because someone on the forum asked me what they sounded like when pushed, so I recorded it for them.


  • #26
    eddiem74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭eddiem74


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    You can go for clipsal, I had them for a good few years, but replaced them all a few years back for minigrid which look great and are in modules so you can mix and match different switch types in the same plate, see below for a clip I posted on a different forum


    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1zlDoqP2HdxYVprVkxfZ1g0Y0U

    The above is a two gang one and they come with up to three gang in a single size face plate. For four gang you would need to go double faceplate, or else something like the clipsal ones which can get up to five buttons on a single faceplate, bit not near as nice looking.

    The above clip BTW was because someone on the forum asked me what they sounded like when pushed, so I recorded it for them.

    Yeah the Varlight I am using are datagrid wall plates which take individual switch modules.

    http://www.theinternetelectricalstore.com/varilight-power-grid-269-c.asp


  • #27
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    wexfordman2 wrote:
    You can go for clipsal, I had them for a good few years, but replaced them all a few years back for minigrid which look great and are in modules so you can mix and match different switch types in the same plate, see below for a clip I posted on a different forum

    I was never a fan of clipsal switches although you could get 5 switches in a one gang plate. I found them to be cheap units that hit a spot in the market by having a multi coloured range, the terminals are poor enough on them imo. OK for non load carrying applications but not mains

    100 percent agree on the grid system.

    It's the most flexible option. In my place I have MK edge switches and a grid system where needed allows me to use inline units and keep the same accessories.

    I remember years ago when I'd just started out dimming units were very bulky. There was a huge derating factor for dimmers beside each other .

    There was a Belgian system, nicobus, handled blinds and dimming bocks you could use a grid system.

    We had a project for an Arabian Royalty client.

    The preference was Forbes and Lomax accessories and another very expensive make, antique bronze and in some places a clear plate that was installed over Persian carpeted walls where all you saw was a tiny brass circular grid push to make switch.
    Nicobus had just development what I remember as the first inline unit 250 to 800 watts each. (Not unusual to have 800watts back then on a decorative multi lamp fitting)

    The push to make switches with the inline dimmers saved the day. You can address any solution with them.

    Up to that a three gang dimmer was a double plate

    The only issue is obviously that you need a bit about you to wire them up and it puts people off them.

    The units that work from pulsing 230Vac are the best imo. As they maintain a traditional wiring system should you need to change back afterwards.

    Even some dali dimmable ballasts will allow a pulsed mains signal to sit alongside whatever overall control system you use.

    For me the fibaro units are very flexible.
    Lightwaverf looks good as they have matching sockets but they don't have the two way control (that some need to understand if they need or not) and you won't have them everywhere so they look different.
    You can match the fibaro into any arrangement (but you won't have great options on sockets)

    But I'd still cable it traditionally with neutrals at the switches ( even if you don't use it as a neutral in home av) it will give you the right amount of cables to keep your switches battery free.

    The only thing though with low voltage solutions is that you can drill a plate yourself and fit plenty of switches to it.


  • #28
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    bk wrote: »
    Well Philips Hue smart bulbs...

    Just curious BK, why are people still recommending Hue? Other than easy install they seem to have very little going for them. If you want to effectively use them you have to abandon use of the existing switches do you not? Seems like a total dealbuster in my eyes. If I owned my own place it'd be the switches I'd replace then use €4 LED bulbs everywhere (love ~6000K white lights).


  • #29
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    ED E wrote: »
    Just curious BK, why are people still recommending Hue? Other than easy install they seem to have very little going for them. If you want to effectively use them you have to abandon use of the existing switches do you not? Seems like a total dealbuster in my eyes. If I owned my own place it'd be the switches I'd replace then use €4 LED bulbs everywhere (love ~6000K white lights).

    I think you can use momentary switches with hue as well which pretty much solves the light switch problem. I really like the colour range if the hue products as well, although I don't have any hue devices.

    You are right, it can turn out expensive to do a Room with a lot of bulbs even if they are in the one circuit though. They do have a hell of s lot more functionality that must smart lighting systems though.


  • #30
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Stoner wrote: »
    I was never a fan of clipsal switches although you could get 5 switches in a one gang plate. I found them to be cheap units that hit a spot in the market by having a multi coloured range, the terminals are poor enough on them imo. OK for non load carrying applications but not mains

    100 percent agree on the grid system.

    It's the most flexible option. In my place I have MK edge switches and a grid system where needed allows me to use inline units and keep the same accessories.

    I remember years ago when I'd just started out dimming units were very bulky. There was a huge derating factor for dimmers beside each other .

    There was a Belgian system, nicobus, handled blinds and dimming bocks you could use a grid system.

    We had a project for an Arabian Royalty client.

    The preference was Forbes and Lomax accessories and another very expensive make, antique bronze and in some places a clear plate that was installed over Persian carpeted walls where all you saw was a tiny brass circular grid push to make switch.
    Nicobus had just development what I remember as the first inline unit 250 to 800 watts each. (Not unusual to have 800watts back then on a decorative multi lamp fitting)

    The push to make switches with the inline dimmers saved the day. You can address any solution with them.

    Up to that a three gang dimmer was a double plate

    The only issue is obviously that you need a bit about you to wire them up and it puts people off them.

    The units that work from pulsing 230Vac are the best imo. As they maintain a traditional wiring system should you need to change back afterwards.

    Even some dali dimmable ballasts will allow a pulsed mains signal to sit alongside whatever overall control system you use.

    For me the fibaro units are very flexible.
    Lightwaverf looks good as they have matching sockets but they don't have the two way control (that some need to understand if they need or not) and you won't have them everywhere so they look different.
    You can match the fibaro into any arrangement (but you won't have great options on sockets)

    But I'd still cable it traditionally with neutrals at the switches ( even if you don't use it as a neutral in home av) it will give you the right amount of cables to keep your switches battery free.

    The only thing though with low voltage solutions is that you can drill a plate yourself and fit plenty of switches to it.


    There on their clipsal. I had clipsal momentary throughout the entire house and while I kept them and they never failed for over ten years, I didn't like them, they were stiff to use, you almost had to out your weight behind them.

    Swapped them all out now for the minigrid which are visually identical to standard switches and you don't even realise they are not until you have the light turned on


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    ED E wrote: »
    Just curious BK, why are people still recommending Hue? Other than easy install they seem to have very little going for them. If you want to effectively use them you have to abandon use of the existing switches do you not? Seems like a total dealbuster in my eyes. If I owned my own place it'd be the switches I'd replace then use €4 LED bulbs everywhere (love ~6000K white lights).

    Because they are easily one of the most awesome Home Automation ecosystems, everyone on this forum who has bought them love them and is pretty addicted to them. Once you try them you really can't go back to boring old standard leds.

    They are way more then simple light control. Sure they can also do on/off/dimm remotely, but it is their ability to do millions of colours and perhaps even more importantly many different shades and temperature of white that really set them apart.

    As you say yourself, you like the 6000k white lights, I do too, they are great to use when I'm working from home on a cold, dark Irish winter day, I find they really help me concentrate on my work. But then I'd hate to have 6000k all the time, personally I wouldn't like to use that in the evenings when I'm trying to relax. Instead I like to use a nice gentle, dimmed soft white colour, in fact an almost candle light colour. And the great thing is I can do all that from one bulb.

    I can have the 6000k in the daytime and then as I finish work, I say to Google Home "set living room lights to soft white" and now I have a nice relaxing light to enjoy.

    They can also be great to create a romantic mood with the missus. We also use one in the babies bedroom as a dimmed red light, makes for a great night light. They are often used as a form of "decoration", people "paint" their walls different colours with their lights, use them to highlight kitchen cabinets, art, etc. The colour lights are great fun during a party with the DiscoHue app, which can flash the lights different colours to the beat of the music being played! Then there are the fun, Christmas, Halloween, etc. apps.

    Really they are far more then just simple control, it really is all about the various white temperatures and colours. I've genuinely found that using different light temps and colours can create different moods and that makes them well worth it.

    You can still use the light switch, but if you do switch them off with the switch, then you can't turn them back on with the app, etc. You have to "switch" them back on again. But honestly it really isn't an issue, you just buy the very cool Hue wireless switch and stick it on the wall next to the old switch and cover or remove the old switch. Easy pessy, definitely not a deal breaker.

    Yes, they aren't cheap, but they really are brilliant, nothing else out there does anything even close to the same as them. Once you get them, you realise that the whole remote on/off/dimm thing is only of very limited and questionable utility, that really what makes smart lighting worth it is the ability of set scenes, colours, etc. There is a reason why everyone who on this forum buys one to try, ends up getting addicted and filling their home with them after a while! So be careful about trying one out :P

    BTW the other thing is that Philips has really shown how a home automation tech company should operate. Hue is easily the most well integrated system out their, they have supported from day one pretty much every home automation system out of the box, GHome, Echo, Siri/HomeKit, IFTTT, Yonomi, Nest, Harmony, etc. and they have a very open API, meaning there are dozens of great third party apps doing interesting things with them on iPhone and Android. No one else is even in the same league in terms of integration. Philips really are a leading light (haha!) in the HA industry, which is why so many of use like them and I only hope other companies follow suit.

    Edit: Haha, bk's love letter to Hue :D


Advertisement