syndicates

th hen · 13-10-2015 05:04PM #1

just wondering is anyone on here in any good horse syndicates. I see supreme racing offer 5 & 10 % outright shares for upfront fee of either 2750 or 5500 and a monthly fee thereafter for a horse trained with willie mullins. they have some decent horses in their syndicate as well. I know some people who are in lease shares which seems mad as your share is worthless after you see out the year. just looking for any info I can get. cheers

I said · 13-10-2015 10:15PM

th hen wrote: »

just wondering is anyone on here in any good horse syndicates. I see supreme racing offer 5 & 10 % outright shares for upfront fee of either 2750 or 5500 and a monthly fee thereafter for a horse trained with willie mullins. they have some decent horses in their syndicate as well. I know some people who are in lease shares which seems mad as your share is worthless after you see out the year. just looking for any info I can get. cheers

Try gordan Elliot he has a racing club started up a lot cheaper than most others

Specialun · 13-10-2015 10:17PM

I have been in a few. It depends on what you want from them..a bit of craic or to make cash

diomed · 14-10-2015 11:32AM

I've was in two in the 1990s.
The first was a 10% share plus monthly. The horse ran and died in its first race. I didn't know it was running. That was following 6 months of horse problems.
The second was a monthly. One leased horse won three times (€77k), and we got nil.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say it was great craic.

th hen · 14-10-2015 02:05PM

not really looking to make money but ideally you want the horse to be competitive, with a lease share the monthly cost is low but its worthless after 12 months and your really just funding someone else's horse. I would imagine if you purchase an outright share the horse will be insured incase a fatality occurs also. I was looking at soe of supremes horses and a lot are good horses with willie mullins pique sous, avant tout etc. it would be nice to be in a syndicate with 20 max and be hopeful for a horse which would be competing at a decent level but equally being a mullins horse you lose out on the big gamble coming off lol.

finbarrk · 14-10-2015 10:45PM

I'm in Supreme for the last 3 years approx. Have had a few great days out. Have been involved in 2 seperate horses. Both have won. Met some good friends out of it.
PM me if you want more info.

diomed · 15-10-2015 11:20AM

I am throwing out a pile of old magazines. First I rip out any interesting articles. This is from May 2005.

The prize-money pyramid
£100k+......78 horses...0.43%
£50k+........277 horses...1.5%
£30k+........583 horses...3.2%
£15k+.......1596 horses...8.8%
£7.5k+......3360 horses...18.5%
£2.5k+......4574 horses...25.2%
£1.0k+.....11528 horses...62.1%
£0.0..........6860 horses...37.9%

The percentages are a little confusing. If you add the last two 62.1% and 37.9% you get 100%.
I assume 62.1% get more than £1k, so the amount won from £1k+ to £2.5k+ is 62.1% - 25.2% = 36.9%?
The £0.0 must mean from £0.0k to £1.0k
That means 74.8% won less than £2.5k (37.9%+36.9%).

byronbay2 · 15-10-2015 01:34PM

diomed wrote: »

I am throwing out a pile of old magazines. First I rip out any interesting articles. This is from May 2005.

The prize-money pyramid
£100k+......78 horses...0.43%
£50k+........277 horses...1.5%
£30k+........583 horses...3.2%
£15k+.......1596 horses...8.8%
£7.5k+......3360 horses...18.5%
£2.5k+......4574 horses...25.2%
£1.0k+.....11528 horses...62.1%
£0.0..........6860 horses...37.9%

The percentages are a little confusing. If you add the last two 62.1% and 37.9% you get 100%.
I assume 62.1% get more than £1k, so the amount won from £1k+ to £2.5k+ is 62.1% - 25.2% = 36.9%?
The £0.0 must mean from £0.0k to £1.0k
That means 74.8% won less than £2.5k (37.9%+36.9%).

Yeah, that looks about right! Reminds me of something my father used say about horse racing: "The only way to make money from a horse is to follow it around with a shovel!"

Francie Barrett · 15-10-2015 02:13PM

Unless you have plenty of money that you're happy to lose - keep away.

20 years ago, a load of my mates and I entered into a syndicate with a local trainer and ended up spending a 5-figure sum on a 4 year old. The horse had one bumper race under its belt where it placed. While we weren't exactly dreaming of Cheltenham, we expected the horse would be competitive at the handicap level in Ireland. Next 2 years the horse raced several times without making us a single penny or even given a sweat when running. One day the trainer told us to cut our losses as the horse was just no good. We must have lost the guts of £40-50k (after all costs) when we sold.

If you think that's bad, a month later we see the horse out with the trainers brother in law listed as owner. It won a race for him and got sold over to England where it had a decent career winning over £50k.

JuniorB · 15-10-2015 05:19PM

Depends what you want out of it.
You dismiss leasing as if it's only a fool that does it. Most horses you buy will be worth 5% of their value within the year. There are pros and cons to whatever way you approach it.
It'll cost you min 15k to train a horse for a year. Slice it and dice it any way you want - split that between 5 or between 500.
It costs the same to train a bad one as a good one.

Saw during the week that the top 25 lots from last years Tatts Book 1 sales cost over £23 million. Only 7 of them have ran. Only 3 have won and all they won were maiden races (prob less than 100k total in prize money!) That is an absolutely mad statistic!

I've been in a syndicate for over 20 years. Numerous horses that we have owned and leased. From 2 y olds to 10 year olds. Flat and NH. Each horse is taken on it's merits.
You have your ups and your downs. Way more downs than ups!
We didn't have a winner for 7 years and have had 3 in a month!

Best advice - pick a trainer you can trust, stick with them through good and bad. Like any business build up a relationship.
Start small and see how you go.
Most people get stung on their first horse and never go back.

Andalucia · 15-10-2015 07:13PM

definitely choose your trainer wisely- plenty of them will string you along just to have a box full and you paying for it

don't dream of going to the big lads, plenty of small guys who know time of day and are making their way without the backing of millionaire owners

some trainers will tell you as soon as they know its useless and will tell you not to waste your time to time having it trained

cheapest way to get going is to source a store horse and get it trained for a pt to pt - cheaper than going straight to the track with it, and you'll know what you have

If its the flat your into, buy from the horses in training sale aka Hector style a few years ago - spent 1k and got a lifetime of memories

Sisyphus Mark II · 15-10-2015 08:55PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Unless you have plenty of money that you're happy to lose - keep away.

20 years ago, a load of my mates and I entered into a syndicate with a local trainer and ended up spending a 5-figure sum on a 4 year old. The horse had one bumper race under its belt where it placed. While we weren't exactly dreaming of Cheltenham, we expected the horse would be competitive at the handicap level in Ireland. Next 2 years the horse raced several times without making us a single penny or even given a sweat when running. One day the trainer told us to cut our losses as the horse was just no good. We must have lost the guts of £40-50k (after all costs) when we sold.

If you think that's bad, a month later we see the horse out with the trainers brother in law listed as owner. It won a race for him and got sold over to England where it had a decent career winning over £50k.

Sounds like the trainer was a very shrewd operator. A lot of horse trainers are like that!!! Please tell us the name of the horse!

BumperD · 16-10-2015 12:21AM

Leased and it was cheap. Owned and it was more pricey but different experience in that you own the horse rather than someone else. Do your research and you won't get any surprises on either route. Wouldn't discount either route.

A well organized syndicate is driven by the organizer with everything clearly laid out up front, get a bad organizer to put it together and you'll have trouble from the start and no end of unwelcome surprises that cost you money.

califano · 16-10-2015 10:21AM

Michael O'Callaghan has very well organised and transparent syndicates. Some of the recently sucessfull syndicate horses were Rapid Applause, Military Angel and Clutchingatstraws

diomed · 16-10-2015 02:51PM

You can get the DNA of a horse tested by Equinome in UCD for a fee (or fees).
One test will tells if it is a sprinter, middle distance or stayer type.
The other test tells if the horse has any quality.

You could be buying into a horse that is already tested and known to have little or no potential.
http://www.equinome.com/tests/elite-performance-test

If you like send me a PM and I will tell something to look up that could indicate if a horses might have potential (but this applies to the horse population as a whole, and might not apply to one individual).

zpehtsfd · 16-10-2015 04:40PM

Had a 10% share in two decent horses (30K+ each) bought from France. Long story short - they never even made it to a racecourse. Never again.

zpehtsfd · 16-10-2015 04:45PM

th hen wrote: »

I would imagine if you purchase an outright share the horse will be insured incase a fatality occurs also.

Always thought the same until a trainer told me that no one does it in NH. He said the premium works out at something like 10% or more of the value of the horse per year.

BumperD · 16-10-2015 07:07PM

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Always thought the same until a trainer told me that no one does it in NH. He said the premium works out at something like 10% or more of the value of the horse per year.

I've had a few nh through syndicates and insured all.

sibersha · 18-10-2015 11:41AM

Sisyphus Mark II wrote: »

Sounds like the trainer was a very shrewd operator. A lot of horse trainers are like that!!! Please tell us the name of the horse!

Sounds like he was a complete gangster who shafted the poster. There's nothing shrewed about running a horse on wrong conidtions/unfit to gain favourable handicap mark.

It's trainers like him that have turned so many owners/potential owners away from the game & have done the racing industry untold harm for shady personal financial gain.

th hen · 18-10-2015 11:52AM

You would imagine if you were to go with supreme racing syndicate with the horse being trained by willie Mullins and them having forty horses with him that those antics would be non existent.

Sisyphus Mark II · 18-10-2015 06:41PM

I'd still love to know the name of the horse Francie got shafted on. He s told us only facts so don't see any issue putting it up!!!

Also is the definition of shrewd in racing not trying to get a horse on a favourable handicap mark by running them unfit or under wrong conditions ? Whenever us see a big gamble landed, on a horse who was obviously primed for a big run, with duck eggs for form, you always hear the commentator describe the trainer as shrewd in a fawning fashion. Just look at the majority of class 6 or 5 action you see this happening.

sibersha · 19-10-2015 12:21PM

That's one of the issues with racing in my opinion Mark; horses not running on their merits and when they bolt up when the cash is down the trainer is appuladed and tagged as shrewed.

All the while the likes of Francie have lost substantial amounts of their hard earned cash after putting their trust in an individual who is meant to be a professional.

Sisyphus Mark II · 19-10-2015 06:49PM

sibersha wrote: »

That's one of the issues with racing in my opinion Mark; horses not running on their merits and when they bolt up when the cash is down the trainer is appuladed and tagged as shrewed.

All the while the likes of Francie have lost substantial amounts of their hard earned cash after putting their trust in an individual who is meant to be a professional.

I think horse racing was and always will be like this. The dark horse has always been a major feature of the game. It fools people into thinking they know the game then empties their pockets!

finbarrk · 23-10-2015 08:54AM

You are probably not going to make any money. But if you can get in for small money you can have good craic, and meet loads of new people from everywhere. I haven't regretted since I joined anyway.

djPSB · 18-12-2016 01:24PM

realtahorseracing.com

Anyone have any experience with these or know anything about them.

Have a horse running today in 3.40 at Thurles. Ricchezza.

EICVD · 20-12-2016 12:06AM

I'm involved in one of the Gordon Elliott syndicates (not the racing club). Not quite certain of the actual cost as my brother bought the share (& we split they share into 3). Brought us some good days out at meetings we'd never dream of going to like Perth, Bangor & Stratford.

PM me nudes · 20-12-2016 02:24AM

If I was part of the Supreme group that owned Madurai I wouldn't be long telling Mullins to go fcuk himself

BumperD · 20-12-2016 04:06AM

He was found to be lame post race

Kauto · 20-12-2016 12:50PM

BumperD wrote: »

He was found to be lame post race

Lame my hoop! Easy make a horse lame after the race and they needed an excuse after that run!
Whatever about the ride running a horse who is a 10F horse on the flat over 3M was always a clue that this was never going to be involved.
You cant win a maiden hurdle from off the pace in Ireland. Handicaps yes, Maidens no.

Barbaric Gentleman · 23-12-2016 04:52PM

Fellas are quick to knock syndicates, but they give people an ownership experience for a fraction of the cost/risk.

NewApproach · 27-12-2016 12:49AM

Barbaric Gentleman wrote: »

Fellas are quick to knock syndicates, but they give people an ownership experience for a fraction of the cost/risk.

You get 5% of the involvement for 10% of the cost. Generally syndicate managers absolutely creaming it.

syndicates

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