syndicates

th hen

just wondering is anyone on here in any good horse syndicates. I see supreme racing offer 5 & 10 % outright shares for upfront fee of either 2750 or 5500 and a monthly fee thereafter for a horse trained with willie mullins. they have some decent horses in their syndicate as well. I know some people who are in lease shares which seems mad as your share is worthless after you see out the year. just looking for any info I can get. cheers

I said

th hen wrote: »

just wondering is anyone on here in any good horse syndicates. I see supreme racing offer 5 & 10 % outright shares for upfront fee of either 2750 or 5500 and a monthly fee thereafter for a horse trained with willie mullins. they have some decent horses in their syndicate as well. I know some people who are in lease shares which seems mad as your share is worthless after you see out the year. just looking for any info I can get. cheers

Try gordan Elliot he has a racing club started up a lot cheaper than most others

Specialun

I have been in a few. It depends on what you want from them..a bit of craic or to make cash

diomed

I've was in two in the 1990s.
The first was a 10% share plus monthly. The horse ran and died in its first race. I didn't know it was running. That was following 6 months of horse problems.
The second was a monthly. One leased horse won three times (€77k), and we got nil.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say it was great craic.

th hen

not really looking to make money but ideally you want the horse to be competitive, with a lease share the monthly cost is low but its worthless after 12 months and your really just funding someone else's horse. I would imagine if you purchase an outright share the horse will be insured incase a fatality occurs also. I was looking at soe of supremes horses and a lot are good horses with willie mullins pique sous, avant tout etc. it would be nice to be in a syndicate with 20 max and be hopeful for a horse which would be competing at a decent level but equally being a mullins horse you lose out on the big gamble coming off lol.

finbarrk

I'm in Supreme for the last 3 years approx. Have had a few great days out. Have been involved in 2 seperate horses. Both have won. Met some good friends out of it.
PM me if you want more info.

diomed

I am throwing out a pile of old magazines. First I rip out any interesting articles. This is from May 2005.

The prize-money pyramid
£100k+......78 horses...0.43%
£50k+........277 horses...1.5%
£30k+........583 horses...3.2%
£15k+.......1596 horses...8.8%
£7.5k+......3360 horses...18.5%
£2.5k+......4574 horses...25.2%
£1.0k+.....11528 horses...62.1%
£0.0..........6860 horses...37.9%

The percentages are a little confusing. If you add the last two 62.1% and 37.9% you get 100%.
I assume 62.1% get more than £1k, so the amount won from £1k+ to £2.5k+ is 62.1% - 25.2% = 36.9%?
The £0.0 must mean from £0.0k to £1.0k
That means 74.8% won less than £2.5k (37.9%+36.9%).

byronbay2

diomed wrote: »

I am throwing out a pile of old magazines. First I rip out any interesting articles. This is from May 2005.

The prize-money pyramid
£100k+......78 horses...0.43%
£50k+........277 horses...1.5%
£30k+........583 horses...3.2%
£15k+.......1596 horses...8.8%
£7.5k+......3360 horses...18.5%
£2.5k+......4574 horses...25.2%
£1.0k+.....11528 horses...62.1%
£0.0..........6860 horses...37.9%

The percentages are a little confusing. If you add the last two 62.1% and 37.9% you get 100%.
I assume 62.1% get more than £1k, so the amount won from £1k+ to £2.5k+ is 62.1% - 25.2% = 36.9%?
The £0.0 must mean from £0.0k to £1.0k
That means 74.8% won less than £2.5k (37.9%+36.9%).

Yeah, that looks about right! Reminds me of something my father used say about horse racing: "The only way to make money from a horse is to follow it around with a shovel!"

Francie Barrett

Unless you have plenty of money that you're happy to lose - keep away.

20 years ago, a load of my mates and I entered into a syndicate with a local trainer and ended up spending a 5-figure sum on a 4 year old. The horse had one bumper race under its belt where it placed. While we weren't exactly dreaming of Cheltenham, we expected the horse would be competitive at the handicap level in Ireland. Next 2 years the horse raced several times without making us a single penny or even given a sweat when running. One day the trainer told us to cut our losses as the horse was just no good. We must have lost the guts of £40-50k (after all costs) when we sold.

If you think that's bad, a month later we see the horse out with the trainers brother in law listed as owner. It won a race for him and got sold over to England where it had a decent career winning over £50k.

JuniorB

Depends what you want out of it.
You dismiss leasing as if it's only a fool that does it. Most horses you buy will be worth 5% of their value within the year. There are pros and cons to whatever way you approach it.
It'll cost you min 15k to train a horse for a year. Slice it and dice it any way you want - split that between 5 or between 500.
It costs the same to train a bad one as a good one.

Saw during the week that the top 25 lots from last years Tatts Book 1 sales cost over £23 million. Only 7 of them have ran. Only 3 have won and all they won were maiden races (prob less than 100k total in prize money!) That is an absolutely mad statistic!

I've been in a syndicate for over 20 years. Numerous horses that we have owned and leased. From 2 y olds to 10 year olds. Flat and NH. Each horse is taken on it's merits.
You have your ups and your downs. Way more downs than ups!
We didn't have a winner for 7 years and have had 3 in a month!

Best advice - pick a trainer you can trust, stick with them through good and bad. Like any business build up a relationship.
Start small and see how you go.
Most people get stung on their first horse and never go back.

Andalucia

definitely choose your trainer wisely- plenty of them will string you along just to have a box full and you paying for it

don't dream of going to the big lads, plenty of small guys who know time of day and are making their way without the backing of millionaire owners

some trainers will tell you as soon as they know its useless and will tell you not to waste your time to time having it trained

cheapest way to get going is to source a store horse and get it trained for a pt to pt - cheaper than going straight to the track with it, and you'll know what you have

If its the flat your into, buy from the horses in training sale aka Hector style a few years ago - spent 1k and got a lifetime of memories

Sisyphus Mark II

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Unless you have plenty of money that you're happy to lose - keep away.

20 years ago, a load of my mates and I entered into a syndicate with a local trainer and ended up spending a 5-figure sum on a 4 year old. The horse had one bumper race under its belt where it placed. While we weren't exactly dreaming of Cheltenham, we expected the horse would be competitive at the handicap level in Ireland. Next 2 years the horse raced several times without making us a single penny or even given a sweat when running. One day the trainer told us to cut our losses as the horse was just no good. We must have lost the guts of £40-50k (after all costs) when we sold.

If you think that's bad, a month later we see the horse out with the trainers brother in law listed as owner. It won a race for him and got sold over to England where it had a decent career winning over £50k.

Sounds like the trainer was a very shrewd operator. A lot of horse trainers are like that!!! Please tell us the name of the horse!

BumperD

Leased and it was cheap. Owned and it was more pricey but different experience in that you own the horse rather than someone else. Do your research and you won't get any surprises on either route. Wouldn't discount either route.

A well organized syndicate is driven by the organizer with everything clearly laid out up front, get a bad organizer to put it together and you'll have trouble from the start and no end of unwelcome surprises that cost you money.

califano

Michael O'Callaghan has very well organised and transparent syndicates. Some of the recently sucessfull syndicate horses were Rapid Applause, Military Angel and Clutchingatstraws

diomed

You can get the DNA of a horse tested by Equinome in UCD for a fee (or fees).
One test will tells if it is a sprinter, middle distance or stayer type.
The other test tells if the horse has any quality.

You could be buying into a horse that is already tested and known to have little or no potential.
http://www.equinome.com/tests/elite-performance-test

If you like send me a PM and I will tell something to look up that could indicate if a horses might have potential (but this applies to the horse population as a whole, and might not apply to one individual).

zpehtsfd

Had a 10% share in two decent horses (30K+ each) bought from France. Long story short - they never even made it to a racecourse. Never again.

zpehtsfd

th hen wrote: »

I would imagine if you purchase an outright share the horse will be insured incase a fatality occurs also.

Always thought the same until a trainer told me that no one does it in NH. He said the premium works out at something like 10% or more of the value of the horse per year.

BumperD

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Always thought the same until a trainer told me that no one does it in NH. He said the premium works out at something like 10% or more of the value of the horse per year.

I've had a few nh through syndicates and insured all.

sibersha

Sisyphus Mark II wrote: »

Sounds like the trainer was a very shrewd operator. A lot of horse trainers are like that!!! Please tell us the name of the horse!

Sounds like he was a complete gangster who shafted the poster. There's nothing shrewed about running a horse on wrong conidtions/unfit to gain favourable handicap mark.

It's trainers like him that have turned so many owners/potential owners away from the game & have done the racing industry untold harm for shady personal financial gain.

th hen

You would imagine if you were to go with supreme racing syndicate with the horse being trained by willie Mullins and them having forty horses with him that those antics would be non existent.

Sisyphus Mark II

I'd still love to know the name of the horse Francie got shafted on. He s told us only facts so don't see any issue putting it up!!!

Also is the definition of shrewd in racing not trying to get a horse on a favourable handicap mark by running them unfit or under wrong conditions ? Whenever us see a big gamble landed, on a horse who was obviously primed for a big run, with duck eggs for form, you always hear the commentator describe the trainer as shrewd in a fawning fashion. Just look at the majority of class 6 or 5 action you see this happening.

sibersha

That's one of the issues with racing in my opinion Mark; horses not running on their merits and when they bolt up when the cash is down the trainer is appuladed and tagged as shrewed.

All the while the likes of Francie have lost substantial amounts of their hard earned cash after putting their trust in an individual who is meant to be a professional.

Sisyphus Mark II

sibersha wrote: »

That's one of the issues with racing in my opinion Mark; horses not running on their merits and when they bolt up when the cash is down the trainer is appuladed and tagged as shrewed.

All the while the likes of Francie have lost substantial amounts of their hard earned cash after putting their trust in an individual who is meant to be a professional.

I think horse racing was and always will be like this. The dark horse has always been a major feature of the game. It fools people into thinking they know the game then empties their pockets!

finbarrk

You are probably not going to make any money. But if you can get in for small money you can have good craic, and meet loads of new people from everywhere. I haven't regretted since I joined anyway.

djPSB

realtahorseracing.com

Anyone have any experience with these or know anything about them.

Have a horse running today in 3.40 at Thurles. Ricchezza.

EICVD

I'm involved in one of the Gordon Elliott syndicates (not the racing club). Not quite certain of the actual cost as my brother bought the share (& we split they share into 3). Brought us some good days out at meetings we'd never dream of going to like Perth, Bangor & Stratford.

PM me nudes

If I was part of the Supreme group that owned Madurai I wouldn't be long telling Mullins to go fcuk himself

BumperD

He was found to be lame post race

Kauto

BumperD wrote: »

He was found to be lame post race

Lame my hoop! Easy make a horse lame after the race and they needed an excuse after that run!
Whatever about the ride running a horse who is a 10F horse on the flat over 3M was always a clue that this was never going to be involved.
You cant win a maiden hurdle from off the pace in Ireland. Handicaps yes, Maidens no.

Barbaric Gentleman

Fellas are quick to knock syndicates, but they give people an ownership experience for a fraction of the cost/risk.

NewApproach

Barbaric Gentleman wrote: »

Fellas are quick to knock syndicates, but they give people an ownership experience for a fraction of the cost/risk.

You get 5% of the involvement for 10% of the cost. Generally syndicate managers absolutely creaming it.

th hen

Hello,

I've been with supreme horse racing syndicate since January this year just thought I'd write a review of how I've found my time with them l.

First off best advice I can give is do not part with your hard earned money signing up

I joined in January on a horse called dramalamalucy who was advertised as being near ready to run when spoke with it's irish based manager he said I was lucky as was getting into her at just the right time as she is due to run in next 4-6 weeks approx. Still waiting to run . Every excuse under the sun why it wasn't running and then come galway festival it had beaten poets choice ( win galway bumper after ) & court artist (was a bumper winner) in a bit of work in the curragh. Then was injured but uk manager who gives monthly newsletter had horse is immature in newsletter.

Conflicting stories as having members as mushrooms seems a priority in supreme . Admitted injury when challenged but as I eventually learned throughout the year from speaking to other members the horse I joined has been nicknamed the unicorn as seems a myth as never too be seen and the 4-6 line about racing was around well before I joined and numerous has come and gone in her. Now expected to be seen next spring, maybe waiting on lord lucan to come back to ride her........

Syndicate promises a lot online . Very little which is delivered

Regular stable tours - I learned last one was over a year before I joined and no sign of a current one on the horizon . Was one lately but there was a reason behind that which I'll get too later .

Online chatbox for owners to communicate . What they don't say is its a dictatorship and if you question shr you are blocked off chatbox . Numerous people been blocked . Also chatbox went down after cheltenham around the time yearly prize money was set to be paid out. Here cue the hurricane .

Members who had bought into horses ie 5k up front and then monthly payments had to set up a private whatsapp group to communicate and eventually a letter was drafted from owners to shr asking numerous questions about funds and prize money and highlighting the numerous faults with the club and concerns they had with their shares.

The person who set up the whatsapp group had all his shares taken off him and expelled from the club. He had a lot of shares in horses and spent a considerable amount paying monthly fees too. Runs into thousands I believe .

As owners you don't have any real say in your horse in truth . 2 horse sold yesterday in sales in uk that cost a lot of money went fir 13k combined 10k iolani and 3k sois gentil and cost far far more. Some owners wanted a reserve set but shr said all owners couldn't agree on reserve. There's the problem !!! finding out who is in your specific horse is impossible as they won't tell you due to privacy. All communication must go through them . Just like chatbox everything must be seen by shr

Whatsapp group highlighted stable tour in letter so eventually got one. Would it have came about without owners complaining I don't know.......

WhatsApp group members now being targeted and being blocked off chatbox. Only positive comments are welcomed on chat it seems.

Save your money is only advice I can give anyone thinking off joining up .

diomed

I've merged this thread with one you opened previously on syndicates.

th hen

diomed wrote: »

I've merged this thread with one you opened previously on syndicates.

Cheers diomed.

diomed

Fwiw I went to a stud farm yesterday for a talk about buying a broodmare at the Breeding Stock sales at the end of November/early December, Goffs Ireland, Tattersalls UK, Arqana France.
I want to breed a horse. This way I can lose my money without middle-men.

diomed

Here is food for thought from a sale a few years ago.
I traced horses through their racing careers to see if they made money.

Lots Earnings € Price € Profit/Loss € P&L each €

Profit before training (top 10) 10 3,018,866 408,500 2,610,366 261,037
Profit before training 52 1,585,503 649,700 935,803 17,996
Loss before training 242 1,196,896 5,195,000 -3,998,104 -16,521
Unraced / Untraced 130 0 1,624,300 -1,624,300 -12,495
Withdrawn from sale 28 0 0 0 0

462 5,801,265 7,877,500 -2,076,235 -4,494
each 1 12,557 17,051 -4,494

You can see that 10 horses made money.
Most lost heavily as the above figures are before training costs which could be around 20k a year.

th hen

Better option than paying into supreme horse racing . Throwing away your money Is all your doing. God help the people who purchased shares . I was a lease share member no upfront fee thankfully. How they can just throw people out of club and keep their shares is beyond me

BumperD

Sounds like you had a very bad experience. Horses get injured all the time and not all will be winners but you should know what you are buying into unless of course it’s the the pooled horses, no idea of that structure. Few months back you posted that you were paying 140pm and were happy, looks like it went very sour for you very quickly....

th hen

I wised up to the spoofing they feed you to keep extracting monthly payments off you . I can take a horse being injured as that's part and parcel of racing but it's the total lack of transparency that's the issue .

I've seen too many question shr in the last few months and get punished for it. These people have spent thousands buying into shares and spent a lot more than I have on monthly fees. Some are in from the start of its set up !

A lot of shares are up for sale recently and have been sold as a lot of long time members are getting out quick. Funding racing managers is not a past time I enjoy to be honest.

Hopefully this post will stop the next person wasting their money

th hen

BumperD wrote: »

Sounds like you had a very bad experience. Horses get injured all the time and not all will be winners but you should know what you are buying into unless of course it’s the the pooled horses, no idea of that structure. Few months back you posted that you were paying 140pm and were happy, looks like it went very sour for you very quickly....

5 months ago since I commented on supreme racing. I have mailed 2 members here in June when they asked my experiences and both were negative of shr .

While your involved in the horse it's hard publicly to speak negatively about the syndicate because of the fear of being blocked by shr .

You can be lucky and get into a good horse cheap as it has happened but if your looking for a transparent syndicate where you know what's truly happening with your horse or feel you want input into your horse shr is definitely not the way forward. Just be warned you may spend a lot of money and get absolutely nothing or be blocked for questioning the goings on.........

BumperD

th hen wrote: »

Hello,

I've been with supreme horse racing syndicate since January this year just thought I'd write a review of how I've found my time with them l.

First off best advice I can give is do not part with your hard earned money signing up

I joined in January on a horse called dramalamalucy who was advertised as being near ready to run when spoke with it's irish based manager he said I was lucky as was getting into her at just the right time as she is due to run in next 4-6 weeks approx. Still waiting to run . Every excuse under the sun why it wasn't running and then come galway festival it had beaten poets choice ( win galway bumper after ) & court artist (was a bumper winner) in a bit of work in the curragh. Then was injured but uk manager who gives monthly newsletter had horse is immature in newsletter.

Conflicting stories as having members as mushrooms seems a priority in supreme . Admitted injury when challenged but as I eventually learned throughout the year from speaking to other members the horse I joined has been nicknamed the unicorn as seems a myth as never too be seen and the 4-6 line about racing was around well before I joined and numerous has come and gone in her. Now expected to be seen next spring, maybe waiting on lord lucan to come back to ride her........

Syndicate promises a lot online . Very little which is delivered

Regular stable tours - I learned last one was over a year before I joined and no sign of a current one on the horizon . Was one lately but there was a reason behind that which I'll get too later .

Online chatbox for owners to communicate . What they don't say is its a dictatorship and if you question shr you are blocked off chatbox . Numerous people been blocked . Also chatbox went down after cheltenham around the time yearly prize money was set to be paid out. Here cue the hurricane .

Members who had bought into horses ie 5k up front and then monthly payments had to set up a private whatsapp group to communicate and eventually a letter was drafted from owners to shr asking numerous questions about funds and prize money and highlighting the numerous faults with the club and concerns they had with their shares.

The person who set up the whatsapp group had all his shares taken off him and expelled from the club. He had a lot of shares in horses and spent a considerable amount paying monthly fees too. Runs into thousands I believe .

As owners you don't have any real say in your horse in truth . 2 horse sold yesterday in sales in uk that cost a lot of money went fir 13k combined 10k iolani and 3k sois gentil and cost far far more. Some owners wanted a reserve set but shr said all owners couldn't agree on reserve. There's the problem !!! finding out who is in your specific horse is impossible as they won't tell you due to privacy. All communication must go through them . Just like chatbox everything must be seen by shr

Whatsapp group highlighted stable tour in letter so eventually got one. Would it have came about without owners complaining I don't know.......

WhatsApp group members now being targeted and being blocked off chatbox. Only positive comments are welcomed on chat it seems.

Save your money is only advice I can give anyone thinking off joining up .

This

carq

BumperD wrote: »

This

At least he got a winner out of his one run, even if it was in Tramore.

pflanagan132

Looks as if its all going belly-up now

th hen

carq wrote: »

At least he got a winner out of his one run, even if it was in Tramore.

I was long gone by then so never got a winner while there. Hopefully my comments stopped people from joining and wasting their money.