Aleppo

Elmer Blooker · 14-12-2016 01:08PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

As far as I know the UN doesn't ignore Yemen at all, the latest update is from yesterday about the imminent danger of millions of children dying of starvation.

But it just seem as if the media don't seem to care, many of them probably don't know who is fighting who.

Yes, you're right. Perhaps I'm being over critical of the UN.
Its the media that is covering up the crimes committed in Yemen because we all know who's arming the Saudis to do their dirty work.

Gatling · 14-12-2016 01:11PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The propaganda coming from RTE has been RELENTLESS over the last 24 hours and not a single source has been named. Its all "there are reports" ... "a source in Aleppo says ..." and so on.

But elmer your part of a serial denial club unless it comes from the Kremlin news Sputnik or rt you claim it's lies ,

TerrorFirmer · 14-12-2016 01:16PM

There's a big difference between 'not reporting on' and 'covering up'. The same thing happened with Ukraine, it's virtually completely ignored as if the situation doesn't exist - the news world has moved on to more exciting news, for want of a better word. Syria is interesting to the average person for a multitude of reasons - the intervention of external powers, Islamic state, the wider stakes, etc.

Most people are not particularly interested in Yemen although it is not being ignored either, virtually all news outlets, be they print or broadcast, do discuss it albeit to a much, much smaller extent.

I also don't think it's fair to label all western coverage of Syria as 'propaganda' either. They're just reporting the facts of what's being alleged, be it true or untrue. They also write stories around claims made by the Syrian Government and feature quotes atrributable to the Government.

Most people, even those who exclusively watch localised/wider western media, support the Syrian Government and Russian intervention at this point.

If it's all 'propaganda' it's the world's worst.

nacho libre · 14-12-2016 01:32PM

So 4,000 isis fighters managed to escape Mosul, which is surrounded, and march across the Syrian desert to Palmyra without the US noticing. Pull the other one. No one is bothering to question this in the western media. With this in mind will we see any follow up on the seven year old tweeting from eastern Aleppo? Convenient how she happen to have internet access and time to tweet...
No doubt another fake new story/ psych op, much like the gay girl of Damascus blog. I wonder did Hillary have this in mind when she spoke about the damage fake news does.

By the way back when Al Nusra/Al Qaeda were persona non grata, the US and Britian, when they were outsourcing torture, a few terrorists( now repackaged as freedom loving rebels of eastern Aleppo) were tortured in Syrian jails. So there was a working relationship between Assad and the West at the time.

Jelle1880 · 14-12-2016 01:37PM

nacho libre wrote: »

So 4,000 isis fighters managed to escape Mosul, which is surrounded, and march across the Syrian desert to Palmyra without the US noticing. Pull the other one. No one is bothering to question this in the western media. With this in mind will we see any follow up on the seven year old tweeting from eastern Aleppo? Convenient how she happen to have internet access and time to tweet...
No doubt another fake new story/ psych op, much like the gay girl of Damascus blog. I wonder did Hillary have this in mind when she spoke about the damage fake news does.

By the way back when Al Nusra/Al Qaeda were persona non grata, the US and Britian, when they were outsourcing torture, a few terrorists( now repackaged as freedom loving rebels of eastern Aleppo) were tortured in Syrian jails. So there was a working relationship between Assad and the West at the time.

Where did you see that 4000 fighters managed to escape ? Mosul was completely surrounded, the only way that could have happened is if the Shia militias/Iraqi army let them escape or if they somehow slipped out among the civilian refugees.

Blaming the US for that makes no sense.

Hande hoche! · 14-12-2016 01:46PM

nacho libre wrote: »

So 4,000 isis fighters managed to escape Mosul, which is surrounded, and march across the Syrian desert to Palmyra without the US noticing. Pull the other one. No one is bothering to question this in the western media. With this in mind will we see any follow up on the seven year old tweeting from eastern Aleppo? Convenient how she happen to have internet access and time to tweet...
No doubt another fake new story/ psych op, much like the gay girl of Damascus blog. I wonder did Hillary have this in mind when she spoke about the damage fake news does.

By the way back when Al Nusra/Al Qaeda were persona non grata, the US and Britian, when they were outsourcing torture, a few terrorists( now repackaged as freedom loving rebels of eastern Aleppo) were tortured in Syrian jails. So there was a working relationship between Assad and the West at the time.

There were those famous photos of Kerry and the Assads dining together.

Gatling · 14-12-2016 01:52PM

nacho libre wrote: »

So 4,000 isis fighters managed to escape Mosul, which is surrounded, and march across the Syrian desert to Palmyra without the .

Syrians , Iranians,hizbollah,russians not noticing there the ones who had Aleppo completely surrounded for the last few years ,

Odd that .

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:00PM

Grayson wrote: »

Depends on how you describe "safe"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3371675/Bombed-houses-rubble-far-eye-apocalyptic-landscape-remains-one-region-Syrian-capital-Damascus.html

Best information is from people on the ground. I met a Syrian couple in Belgium last week and they describe Damascus as pretty safe with the markets and shops and theatres all open and busy.

The Daily Mail images are probably random shots of Baghdad or Fallujah that they just tried to fob off. It wouldn't be the first time the Mail has printed doctored or fake photographs. Here's a photo essay of Damascus 2016:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/damascus-life-returns-5-years-after-nato-destabilization-efforts/218601/

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:02PM

Grayson wrote: »

I hate to agree, because Assad is a scumbag but you might be right. It's like choosing cancer or ebola.

70% of Syrians would disagree with you.

Grayson · 14-12-2016 02:04PM

HensVassal wrote: »

Best information is from people on the ground. I met a Syrian couple in Belgium last week and they describe Damascus as pretty safe with the markets and shops and theatres all open and busy.

The Daily Mail images are probably random shots of Baghdad or Fallujah that they just tried to fob off. It would be the first time the Mail has printed doctored or fake photographs. Here's a photo essay of Damascus 2016:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/damascus-life-returns-5-years-after-nato-destabilization-efforts/218601/

So there was no violence in Damascus and there's no ongoing attacks there?

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:06PM

Gatling wrote: »

And yet it's described as some Syrian utopia untouched by war

The Syrians I've met and have spoken to, you know, who are actually from there can confirm that life is relatively normal in Damascus.

Yet you from the confines of your bedroom 2000 miles away seem to know better.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:14PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

The same America that spent $500 million dollars training 50 moderate rebels, who then subsequently defected when they clashed with Al Nusra/Al Qaeda during their first armed action. And being the great bunch of lads that they were, they immediately defected and joined up with their jihadi brothers. But America has a historical habit and previous form for 'accidentally' arming extreme jihadi terrorist groups.

I wanted Assad out in 2011, but the fúcked up American policy of arming extremists masquerading as so-called moderates and seeing how the Libya was returned to the stone age by western incompetence & meddling, soon changed my opinion. I still want Assad to go, but first I want to see the extermination of the likes of Al Nusra and such vermin that America have been desperately helping. Syria was once a secular society and such Jiahdi scum mustn't be allowed to prevail and turn it into Libya 2.0.

The Russians predicted back in 2011, that the moderate Free Syrian Army would be brushed aside, become mostly an irrelevance and Syria would become a hotbed & breeding ground for the likes of Al Nusra and Daesh. The arming of these so called 'moderates' by the West and the heavy backing from the medieval regimes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, has only intensified, prolonged and turned Syria into a bloodbath. Many in the Syrian army owe no allegiance to Assad, but many see their fight as a last stand to stopping Syria becoming the new Libya or raqqa. So afaic, we need the elimination of the Islamist fanatics first and then we can focus on Assad's removal & transition.

Unfortunately though, once again America hasn't helped matters because they seem to have conveniently suspending token operations against Daesh in Raqqa and this has allowed Daesh to target Palmyra again with an estimated 4,000 fighters. Amazing how the most monitored piece of real estate by American intelligence, seems to have missed such a large force of terrorist moving across a flat, sandy, barren landscape. The same intelligence agencies that somehow missed the thousands of Daesh oil tankers that were passing unhindered in massive convoys through Turkish border posts. The Russian Air Force were baffled by how American drones and satellite surveillance failed to spot them, especially considering how long they were operating in the region before the Russians arrived.

The one positive I can see is, Trump will end the hypocritical nonsense of the current administration speaking out of both sides of its mouth and their duplicitous activities in Syria. I believe he will do business with Russia and I think they will join forces the way Russia has already suggested and they will eliminate the filth of Al Nusra & Daesh. Now the warmongering neocons and Cold War 2.0 aspirationists won't be happy by all of that, but the people of Syria will be and that's all that matters.

Why do you want Assad to "go"? Who are you to decide what's good for the Syrian people? Assad enjoys 70+% popularity among his people yet you think you know what's best for them?

Don't fall for the propaganda. Get online and find out for yourself how popular Assad is. Go onto Syrian forums and chat rooms and talk to Syrian people.

Grayson · 14-12-2016 02:14PM

HensVassal wrote: »

The Syrians I've met and have spoken to, you know, who are actually from there can confirm that life is relatively normal in Damascus.

Yet you from the confines of your bedroom 2000 miles away seem to know better.

I'm going by news reports in every single paper. Google it. Al-Nusra took over large suburbs in Damascus. They held it until very recently and there's still bombings going on there.

Of course you can choose to believe two people you met on holidays rather than thousands of news reports but that would be silly wouldn't it.

robbiezero · 14-12-2016 02:18PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

For starters, there's no such thing as 'the democratic west' and all involved in Syria have absolutely no interest in the needs of the syrians including 'the democratic west'. I wish the people of Syria the very best, we truly are a dreadful species

Speak for yourself. Most of us are grand.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:19PM

Gatling wrote: »

He hasn't got the manpower to finish the war as it stands there forcing conscription on the people coming out of Aleppo and disappearing others ,
Assad has been bled dry ,he has russian bombing everything and anything and that's it,
The kurds will get their state some time in 2017 and turkey won't be leaving syria any time soon either .

This just shows how detached from reality you are. There is no way in Hell that Erdogan will stand for the creation of a Kurdish state. They are currently fighting to prevent it.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 02:28PM

Grayson wrote: »

Depends. People in the west seem to think that moderate muslims would massacre everyone else. If you want a good example of a similar situation then take a look at Lebanon. In Lebanon everyone went bat sh1t crazy. Most of the worst violence was committed by christian militias but no religious/ethic group was without blood on their hands.

The Sabra and Shantilla massacres are a good example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

(Edit: I'd recommend reading Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. The politics of the country make Northern Ireland or Game of thrones look simplistic)

The Sabra and Shatilla massacres were conducted by none other than one Ariel Sharon. The Phalangists may have pulled the triggers but it was orchestrated by Israel whose tanks surrounded the camps and then whose allies were sent in to carry out the slaughter.

nacho libre · 14-12-2016 02:29PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where did you see that 4000 fighters managed to escape ? Mosul was completely surrounded, the only way that could have happened is if the Shia militias/Iraqi army let them escape or if they somehow slipped out among the civilian refugees.

Blaming the US for that makes no sense.

That makes no sense either. How could 4,000 just slip out with refugees to engage in a military operation. Did they pick up their heavy weaponry at a rendezvous point along the way?

Secondly the shia militia are pro Iranian, which are fighting on Assad's side in Syria. There is no way they would allow them to escape. Also even if what you said were true, surely American drones/ spy planes , special forces on the ground, would have noticed such a mass move movement of fighters...

Elmer Blooker · 14-12-2016 02:36PM

HensVassal wrote: »

The Syrians I've met and have spoken to, you know, who are actually from there can confirm that life is relatively normal in Damascus.

This is a very interesting 2013 report from Damascus by BBC correspondent Lyse Doucet. At 1.00 she says: " ... these teenagers are fortunate to live in a safe government controlled area ... they thank Assad for keeping them safe"
Such a comment would never be allowed now on the BBC, it would promptly be removed by the censors! These residents of Damascus seen on the video no longer exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73NqHnn-6dQ

Gatling · 14-12-2016 02:48PM

HensVassal wrote: »

The Syrians I've met

Ohh yeah of course bull****

TerrorFirmer · 14-12-2016 02:59PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

This is a very interesting 2013 report from Damascus by BBC correspondent Lyse Doucet. At 1.00 she says: " ... these teenagers are fortunate to live in a safe government controlled area ... they thank Assad for keeping them safe"
Such a comment would never be allowed now on the BBC, it would promptly be removed by the censors! These residents of Damascus seen on the video no longer exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73NqHnn-6dQ

Comments like that can and still do appear on BBC and other news outlets. Sky news had footage yesterday of Syrians in the streets cheering and holding up pictures of Assad.

This idea that western media is attempting to portray Assad as deeply unpopular is frankly not really based on anything.

Gatling · 14-12-2016 03:05PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Comments like that can and still do appear on BBC and other news outlets. Sky news had footage yesterday of Syrians in the streets cheering and holding up pictures of Assad.

This idea that western media is attempting to portray Assad as deeply unpopular is frankly not really based on anything.

It's an attempt to even the scores when posters are caught peddling misinformation and propaganda ,
By saying that the msm media is portraying one thing but yet they end contradicting themselves when people cheering assad are shown in videos ,

Doeant make sense at all

jmayo · 14-12-2016 03:06PM

nacho libre wrote: »

That makes no sense either. How could 4,000 just slip out with refugees to engage in a military operation. Did they pick up their heavy weaponry at a rendezvous point along the way?
...
Also even if what you said were true, surely American drones/ spy planes , special forces on the ground, would have noticed such a mass move movement of fighters...

Well they used to also miss the line of oil tanker trucks crossing into Turkey with ISIS oil, the trucks coming the other way with refining equipment, or the ISIS fighters transitioning through Turkish territory in order to fight Kurds.

listermint · 14-12-2016 03:07PM

This whole thread is like a bunch of Facebook posts shouting over each other. The term MSM is one of the latest ones to come out of this nonsense literally in the last month it appeared by people who seem to think they are enlightened if they link an RT youtube video post.

Here is a fact for you the US and Russia couldnt give a ballax about Syria or the people in it. RT are a propaganda machine and many Western style networks the same. Neither side is holier than now and pointing the finger at one side whilst refusing to awknowledge the other makes you a complete idiot.

War is ridiculous Mankind is ridiculous We are ridiculous.

Congratulations everyone! no one wins.

Jelle1880 · 14-12-2016 03:12PM

nacho libre wrote: »

That makes no sense either. How could 4,000 just slip out with refugees to engage in a military operation. Did they pick up their heavy weaponry at a rendezvous point along the way?

Secondly the shia militia are pro Iranian, which are fighting on Assad's side in Syria. There is no way they would allow them to escape. Also even if what you said were true, surely American drones/ spy planes , special forces on the ground, would have noticed such a mass move movement of fighters...

That's actually my point: There is nothing to prove that 4000 fighters escaped, unless the surrounding of Mosul isn't really that well done with wide gaps between the forces.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Forced conscription probably explains why the Syrian army was driven out of Palmyra with such ease despite having Russian air support.

Could someone please explain what "forced conscription" is? Is that as opposed to "voluntary" conscription?

One: "You are hereby ordered to fight!", whereas the other: "You are hereby ordered to fight, but you don't have to!"

Oodoov · 14-12-2016 03:26PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Where did you see that 4000 fighters managed to escape ? Mosul was completely surrounded, the only way that could have happened is if the Shia militias/Iraqi army let them escape or if they somehow slipped out among the civilian refugees.

Blaming the US for that makes no sense.

Who do you think controls the Shia terrorists and Iraqi army. Santa Claus?

Jelle1880 · 14-12-2016 03:29PM

Oodoov wrote: »

Who do you think controls the Shia terrorists and Iraqi army. Santa Claus?

Well, many of the Shia militias around Mosul are Iran-backed.

Not a clue what this has to do with my post though, I was merely calling out someone who claimed that 4000 fighters escaped and somehow the US let them ? Despite the US not being the ones surrounding the city.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 03:30PM

What I find interesting is that there is conscription in Syria for young men and university students. This has resulted in large numbers of this demographic to flee the country rather than die in battle.
Of course then you get all these muppets screaming "Why are the refugees all military aged single males? They must be ISIS operatives, waaahhhhhh"

:rolleyes:

Oodoov · 14-12-2016 03:32PM

listermint wrote: »

This whole thread is like a bunch of Facebook posts shouting over each other. The term MSM is one of the latest ones to come out of this nonsense literally in the last month it appeared by people who seem to think they are enlightened if they link an RT youtube video post.

Here is a fact for you the US and Russia couldnt give a ballax about Syria or the people in it. RT are a propaganda machine and many Western style networks the same. Neither side is holier than now and pointing the finger at one side whilst refusing to awknowledge the other makes you a complete idiot.

War is ridiculous Mankind is ridiculous We are ridiculous.

Congratulations everyone! no one wins.

Yes the term MSM has only come out the last month or so (not) and i don't think anyone is saying either side are angels and the defenders of the realm or anything like that. RT are as bad as Sky news or CNN they all have an agenda. I think the point posters are making is it would be nice if the news networks actually reported on the news with a degree of balance be that western or Russian MSM.

If people don't question what they hear then they are part of the problem also.

HensVassal · 14-12-2016 03:37PM

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

Morning Star describing the attacks as 'liberation' of Aleppo.

Just shows if you go far enough to the left the loonies there are as bad as the far right.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2016/12/no-aleppo-not-being-liberated-despite-what-morning-star-says

And what would you have referred to Aleppo or any other Syrian city before this whole terrorist war started 5 years ago?

The "besieged city of Aleppo"?, the "occupied city of Damascus"?