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Aleppo

  • 13-12-2016 02:11PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,626 ✭✭✭


    Just a thought here, I figured I would bounce it around and see what you all think.

    Are the actions of the Russian Military in Syria a deliberate attempt to get the west to retaliate?

    We have all seen and heard what Putin thinks of the democratic west.

    Am I jumping to conclusions? or is there something in what i say?


«13456714

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's possible he's trying to draw them in to a deep long lasting conflict,
    Aleppo will fall for a few weeks,come January or February it will be back In rebels hands ,
    Russia bombarding from the air won't achieve any victory ,
    Unless there will to put 250,000 to 300,000 troops on the ground it just going to be an expensive campaign for both russia and syria


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,378 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Within two pages this thread will be about Iraq


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Russia is backing the Government.

    The US is backing the Rebels.

    The government is a brutal dictatorship that the US was backing until it did a deal with Russia on oil.

    The people are caught in the middle. The US will bugger off and the rebels will be wiped out and Russia will have another puppet friendly dictator next door.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    The war is nearly over, the rebels have lost and America should advocate the rebels surrender and lay down arms. They have lost and it is pretty obvious now at this point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    Are the actions of the Russian Military in Syria a deliberate attempt to get the west to retaliate?

    No. It's a lot deeper than that. The rebellion is nearly over now and Russia will get what it wanted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 952 ✭✭✭s4uv3


    What's an Aleppo?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The war is nearly over, the rebels have lost and America should advocate the rebels surrender and lay down arms. They have lost and it is pretty obvious now at this point.

    Isis Retook Palmayra from the Syrian army that just legged it ,
    It's safe to say this war will rage for several more years


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Parachutes


    s4uv3 wrote: »
    What's an Aleppo?

    Beat me to it. Great minds.


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is a proxy war, fought between the USA, Russia, Turkey, Kurds & Saudi Arabia with other countries providing cannon fodder mercenaries to fight on their behalf.
    Once Alleppo falls to the government, the war will return to eliminating the Islamic state with Countries like Turkey only selecting to attack Islamic state when they're in areas that don't have Kurdish militants and Leaving ISIS to freely roam in areas where the Kurds are.

    Trump may pull back the US support when he becomes the US President but that still leaves the mess for the local powers to sort out and they have their own agendas.
    Russia only cares as long as Syria retains a Russian friendly government.
    Interesting to note that the media is concentrating on the civilian deaths rather than the defeat of western backed rebels in the city.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    Gatling wrote: »
    The war is nearly over, the rebels have lost and America should advocate the rebels surrender and lay down arms. They have lost and it is pretty obvious now at this point.

    Isis Retook Palmayra from the Syrian army that just legged it ,
    It's safe to say this war will rage for several more years
    They are finished, Assad just needs to push ahead now and finish this cruel war. The sooner they finish it the more lives will be saved.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Better for everyone at this stage if Assad just won. The country is ruined, hundreds of thousands are dead, the economy and infrastructure is wrecked. Even if Assad was eliminated for the most part, you'd probably still have a situation like Libya with civil war continuing between other competing factions - look how that's worked out since Gadaffi's been gone, Libya is a disaster.

    Not in any way shape or form an endorsement of the Assad regime but hard to see any other alternative right now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Within two pages this thread will be about Iraq

    Congrats, you did it in 3 posts!!

    As for Aleppo, it's finished.

    Interesting that Damascus isn't mentioned at all.
    What's the state of play there?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Apparently the Syrian army are shooting civilians on the spot.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/13/red-cross-urgent-plea-to-save-civilians-aleppo-syria
    Children are reportedly trapped inside a building under attack in besieged Aleppo, the UN’s children agency has said, amid reports that forces loyal to the regime of Bashar al-Assad are carrying out extrajudicial killings in areas of the city recently reclaimed from the Syrian opposition.

    “According to alarming reports from a doctor in the city, many children, possibly more than 100, unaccompanied or separated from their families, are trapped in a building, under heavy attack in east Aleppo,” Unicef said in a statement. “We urge all parties to the conflict to allow the safe and immediate evacuation of all children.”

    The UN’s human rights office said earlier there were reliable reports that pro-Syrian regime forces have been entering homes in the last remaining rebel strongholds in eastern Aleppo and killing civilians on the spot.

    It said it had received reports from multiple sources that 82 civilians had been killed across four different neighbourhoods. “The reports we had are of people being shot in the street trying to flee and shot in their homes,” Rupert Colville, a UN spokesman, said. “There could be many more.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Within two pages this thread will be about Iraq

    It only took you three posts to get to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Within two pages this thread will be about Iraq Israel/USA

    :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Better for everyone at this stage if Assad just won. The country is ruined, hundreds of thousands are dead, the economy and infrastructure is wrecked. Even if Assad was eliminated for the most part, you'd probably still have a situation like Libya with civil war continuing between other competing factions - look how that's worked out since Gadaffi's been gone, Libya is a disaster.

    Not in any way shape or form an endorsement of the Assad regime but hard to see any other alternative right now.

    I hate to agree, because Assad is a scumbag but you might be right. It's like choosing cancer or ebola.


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Congrats, you did it in 3 posts!!

    As for Aleppo, it's finished.

    Interesting that Damascus isn't mentioned at all.
    What's the state of play there?
    As far as I can tell Damascus is safely under government control, probably as safe as any other city that outside any of the war zones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    As far as I can tell Damascus is safely under government control, probably as safe as any other city that outside any of the war zones.

    Depends on how you describe "safe"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3371675/Bombed-houses-rubble-far-eye-apocalyptic-landscape-remains-one-region-Syrian-capital-Damascus.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They are finished, Assad just needs to push ahead now and finish this cruel war. .

    He hasn't got the manpower to finish the war as it stands there forcing conscription on the people coming out of Aleppo and disappearing others ,
    Assad has been bled dry ,he has russian bombing everything and anything and that's it,
    The kurds will get their state some time in 2017 and turkey won't be leaving syria any time soon either .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Grayson wrote: »

    And yet it's described as some Syrian utopia untouched by war


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    The US is backing the Rebels.

    The same America that spent $500 million dollars training 50 moderate rebels, who then subsequently defected when they clashed with Al Nusra/Al Qaeda during their first armed action. And being the great bunch of lads that they were, they immediately defected and joined up with their jihadi brothers. But America has a historical habit and previous form for 'accidentally' arming extreme jihadi terrorist groups.

    I wanted Assad out in 2011, but the fúcked up American policy of arming extremists masquerading as so-called moderates and seeing how the Libya was returned to the stone age by western incompetence & meddling, soon changed my opinion. I still want Assad to go, but first I want to see the extermination of the likes of Al Nusra and such vermin that America have been desperately helping. Syria was once a secular society and such Jiahdi scum mustn't be allowed to prevail and turn it into Libya 2.0.

    The Russians predicted back in 2011, that the moderate Free Syrian Army would be brushed aside, become mostly an irrelevance and Syria would become a hotbed & breeding ground for the likes of Al Nusra and Daesh. The arming of these so called 'moderates' by the West and the heavy backing from the medieval regimes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, has only intensified, prolonged and turned Syria into a bloodbath. Many in the Syrian army owe no allegiance to Assad, but many see their fight as a last stand to stopping Syria becoming the new Libya or raqqa. So afaic, we need the elimination of the Islamist fanatics first and then we can focus on Assad's removal & transition.

    Unfortunately though, once again America hasn't helped matters because they seem to have conveniently suspending token operations against Daesh in Raqqa and this has allowed Daesh to target Palmyra again with an estimated 4,000 fighters. Amazing how the most monitored piece of real estate by American intelligence, seems to have missed such a large force of terrorist moving across a flat, sandy, barren landscape. The same intelligence agencies that somehow missed the thousands of Daesh oil tankers that were passing unhindered in massive convoys through Turkish border posts. The Russian Air Force were baffled by how American drones and satellite surveillance failed to spot them, especially considering how long they were operating in the region before the Russians arrived.

    The one positive I can see is, Trump will end the hypocritical nonsense of the current administration speaking out of both sides of its mouth and their duplicitous activities in Syria. I believe he will do business with Russia and I think they will join forces the way Russia has already suggested and they will eliminate the filth of Al Nusra & Daesh. Now the warmongering neocons and Cold War 2.0 aspirationists won't be happy by all of that, but the people of Syria will be and that's all that matters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    As far as I can tell Damascus is safely under government control, probably as safe as any other city that outside any of the war zones.
    The vast majority of the city is safe but that will all change when the moderates remove Asaad.
    Then the blood of Alawites, Christians and just about anyone who the moderates consider to be an infidel or apostate will flow in the streets but that's democracy for you! At least Syria will then be free!
    The kurds will get their state some time in 2017 and turkey won't be leaving syria any time soon either .
    What? The Turks are in Syria to PREVENT the Kurds getting their own state.


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What? The Turks are in Syria to PREVENT the Kurds getting their own state.
    That is the second proxy war that is going on there, the Turkish army is there to wipe out the Kurds to weaken the Kurdish areas in Turkey, otherwise Kurdistan could be created from parts of northern Syria & Iraq.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The vast majority of the city is safe but that will all change when the moderates remove Asaad.
    Then the blood of Alawites, Christians and just about anyone who the moderates consider to be an infidel or apostate will flow in the streets but that's democracy for you! At least Syria will then be free!

    Depends. People in the west seem to think that moderate muslims would massacre everyone else. If you want a good example of a similar situation then take a look at Lebanon. In Lebanon everyone went bat sh1t crazy. Most of the worst violence was committed by christian militias but no religious/ethic group was without blood on their hands.

    The Sabra and Shantilla massacres are a good example.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre


    (Edit: I'd recommend reading Pity the Nation by Robert Fisk. The politics of the country make Northern Ireland or Game of thrones look simplistic)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Two major superpowers and some major scumbags lobbying for continued war behind each of them to make some money. Poor civilians caught in the middle of it. Tis sickening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    This seems to be a pretty good round up of events in Aleppo and the fall of Palmyra to the Jihadist.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/aleppo-falls-to-syrian-regime-bashar-al-assad-rebels-uk-government-more-than-one-story-robert-fisk-a7471576.html

    My take is that the Syrian govt will take Aleppo and it will not fall again unless the Saudi/ US or Turks pump huge amounts more of money / material into the fight. Palmyra will be liberated in weeks if not days. I believe that with the new US president we will see the defeat of the Jihadist on the wider battlefield with the Syrian govt making big gains. Trump will back the Russians in Syria, the game is up for those who want a jihadist victory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Be careful about some of the stories being reported about Russia.

    We do propaganda just as good as they do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭redcup342


    Be careful about some of the stories being reported about Russia.

    We do propaganda just as good as they do.

    Yeah, I don't know what to believe anymore, seems to be all biased.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    The arab spring seems to have made the world a worse and more unstable place. Look at the mess that Libya is in now. Say what you want about gaddafi but he ran a tight ship. Sooner Assad gains back control the better


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    s4uv3 wrote: »
    What's an Aleppo?

    I think it's a Syrian cornetto.


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