Learned to drive manual, should I go for automatic?

troyzer · 07-11-2016 10:29PM #1

I got my provisional in February 2015 and spent the next six months learning to drive manually with the 12 lessons, no problems there. I didn't do a huge amount of driving in my parents car because of the cost of the insurance. In August I was going to go for a test but I was offered an MSc course in the UK which I took. Because of the obscenely long waiting times (up to 8 weeks in Dublin) it was really difficult to co-ordinate getting a date and coming home with my really busy schedule in the UK. So I decided to try and get a test around Christmas 2015 but when I came back it was clear that I wasn't going to pass, I hadn't driven in four months and even at that my total driving time was probably less then 20 hours.

So I deferred the test multiple times until I was told in June 2016 that I would have to sit it or forfeit the fee. At this point I hadn't driven in 10 months and while I did a few lessons I failed spectacularly. In the interim my parents had both gotten automatic cars so it was proving impossible to get any time in a manual car without forking out for a lesson.

My MSc and my chosen profession are in a sector where you simply cannot afford to not have a license. You need to be able to drive, it's often ranked higher than your university grades in order of importance to an employer. So I tried to sit another test in August 2016 whilst in the middle of doing my MSc thesis. Same problem again, couldn't get enough time in the car, was limited to a few lessons. I failed again, it was less spectacular but it was pretty clear to the instructor that I just didn't have enough driving time and they told me I need to get behind the wheel more.

Fast forward to November. I'm out of my MSc for two months and I've graduated into one of the worst job markets in the history of my industry. I'm currently unemployed but I have a reasonable prospect of getting a job soon. The problem is, the job requires a license. It doesn't actually specify the need for a manual license so I was thinking about trying to sit my test in one of my parents' automatic. My thinking is that it would be much easier to pass in an automatic (I haven't driven since August so I still probably wouldn't pass a manual test), it would also be much cheaper to put myself on the insurance for a month and chauffeur my mother everywhere. I have the time because I'm unemployed. Ideally I'd book a test, ring for a cancellation standby and drive constantly in the automatic and pass the test before being offered the job.

Does this sound plausible? Is it that much easier to pass a test in an automatic over manual? I've never driven an automatic before.

Also, assuming I got the job the pressure would be off me for getting the manual license but I would still want it. Would I then have an automatic full license and my learner permit simultaneously? Would I have to renew my learner permit in February? Would it be as simple as booking a manual test sometime next year and giving myself the time to do it properly or would getting an automatic license somehow reset the whole process and I'd have to apply for a manual learner permit and do the lessons all over again?

Sorry for the long post! I'd really appreciate any advice.

wally79 · 07-11-2016 10:30PM

troyzer wrote: »

I got my provisional in February 2015 and spent the next six months learning to drive manually with the 12 lessons, no problems there. I didn't do a huge amount of driving in my parents car because of the cost of the insurance. In August I was going to go for a test but I was offered an MSc course in the UK which I took. Because of the obscenely long waiting times (up to 8 weeks in Dublin) it was really difficult to co-ordinate getting a date and coming home with my really busy schedule in the UK. So I decided to try and get a test around Christmas 2015 but when I came back it was clear that I wasn't going to pass, I hadn't driven in four months and even at that my total driving time was probably less then 20 hours.

So I deferred the test multiple times until I was told in June 2016 that I would have to sit it or forfeit the fee. At this point I hadn't driven in 10 months and while I did a few lessons I failed spectacularly. In the interim my parents had both gotten automatic cars so it was proving impossible to get any time in a manual car without forking out for a lesson.

My MSc and my chosen profession are in a sector where you simply cannot afford to not have a license. You need to be able to drive, it's often ranked higher than your university grades in order of importance to an employer. So I tried to sit another test in August 2016 whilst in the middle of doing my MSc thesis. Same problem again, couldn't get enough time in the car, was limited to a few lessons. I failed again, it was less spectacular but it was pretty clear to the instructor that I just didn't have enough driving time and they told me I need to get behind the wheel more.

Fast forward to November. I'm out of my MSc for two months and I've graduated into one of the worst job markets in the history of my industry. I'm currently unemployed but I have a reasonable prospect of getting a job soon. The problem is, the job requires a license. It doesn't actually specify the need for a manual license so I was thinking about trying to sit my test in one of my parents' automatic. My thinking is that it would be much easier to pass in an automatic (I haven't driven since August so I still probably wouldn't pass a manual test), it would also be much cheaper to put myself on the insurance for a month and chauffeur my mother everywhere. I have the time because I'm unemployed. Ideally I'd book a test, ring for a cancellation standby and drive constantly in the automatic and pass the test before being offered the job.

Does this sound plausible? Is it that much easier to pass a test in an automatic over manual? I've never driven an automatic before.

Also, assuming I got the job the pressure would be off me for getting the manual license but I would still want it. Would I then have an automatic full license and my learner permit simultaneously? Would I have to renew my learner permit in February? Would it be as simple as booking a manual test sometime next year and giving myself the time to do it properly or would getting an automatic license somehow reset the whole process and I'd have to apply for a manual learner permit and do the lessons all over again?

Sorry for the long post! I'd really appreciate any advice.

What did you fail the test on?

troyzer · 07-11-2016 10:49PM

wally79 wrote: »

What did you fail the test on?

Mostly observation, signalling, gear changes and things like that. I feel like I'm still in that part of learning where you have no fundamental difficulties driving a car. I don't stall it, I'm relatively confident driving, I'm not looking for the bite like an idiot. But when you combine that with a busy road I'm still not at the point where I'm doing the controls from muscle memory and purely concentrating on my surroundings, road position, signalling and stuff like that.

Does that make sense? When I'm driving I feel like I often catch myself thinking what gear I should be in rather than checking my wing mirrors for cyclists. Making a block change is still a conscious decision would be another example. I have to concentrate on getting it right which I nearly always do but it's to the detriment of my observation.

As well as that, my lack of driving experience means that in the few times I have been out and even during my driving test I was seeing new scenarios for the first time. The first time I had ever seen a crossroads with roads of equal importance was during my second test and I was stuck at it for ages while people kept flying past in front of me. My confidence often goes out the window in those situations.

cantdecide · 07-11-2016 11:34PM

I'm going to be blunt- an auto restriction on a full licence should be treated as a last resort in this part of the world. If you're failing spectacularly in tests, it's simply because of a lack of effort or a lack of applying the necessary reasoning (ie attitude).

I think you'll regret not grasping the nettle now. It's not like you're guaranteed to pass the auto test either- it still requires road craft, effort and knowledge. You just eliminate a variable out of comfort when what you have to do is just create exercises that challenge your co-ordination with the gears as part of yout learning regime.

I suggest either getting your own manual car if possible or doing as much driving in the auto cars at home and go and take some lessons in a manual car separately.

wally79 · 07-11-2016 11:36PM

troyzer wrote: »

Mostly observation, signalling, gear changes and things like that. I feel like I'm still in that part of learning where you have no fundamental difficulties driving a car. I don't stall it, I'm relatively confident driving, I'm not looking for the bite like an idiot. But when you combine that with a busy road I'm still not at the point where I'm doing the controls from muscle memory and purely concentrating on my surroundings, road position, signalling and stuff like that.

Does that make sense? When I'm driving I feel like I often catch myself thinking what gear I should be in rather than checking my wing mirrors for cyclists. Making a block change is still a conscious decision would be another example. I have to concentrate on getting it right which I nearly always do but it's to the detriment of my observation.

As well as that, my lack of driving experience means that in the few times I have been out and even during my driving test I was seeing new scenarios for the first time. The first time I had ever seen a crossroads with roads of equal importance was during my second test and I was stuck at it for ages while people kept flying past in front of me. My confidence often goes out the window in those situations.

Tbh it sounds like you just need more practice which obviously you don't have the opportunity for in a manual.

An automatic might help if your struggling with gear changes and with practice could get you past the test for now but really as above said its not the ideal solution.

Also you probably need to check if that will fulfil the license requirement of the job you are chasing

troyzer · 08-11-2016 12:09AM

cantdecide wrote: »

I'm going to be blunt- an auto restriction on a full licence should be treated as a last resort in this part of the world. If you're failing spectacularly in tests, it's simply because of a lack of effort or a lack of applying the necessary reasoning (ie attitude).

I think you'll regret not grasping the nettle now. It's not like you're guaranteed to pass the auto test either- it still requires road craft, effort and knowledge. You just eliminate a variable out of comfort when what you have to do is just create exercises that challenge your co-ordination with the gears as part of yout learning regime.

I suggest either getting your own manual car if possible or doing as much driving in the auto cars at home and go and take some lessons in a manual car separately.

It's not because of a lack of effort. In total over 18 months I've done around 20 hours of lessons with maybe another five hours in my mother's car. I just don't have the experience which is why I'm failing. Most kids my age have hundreds of hours on the clock before going for a test and definitely aren't stringing it out over years. It's true that an automatic doesn't guarantee a pass, but it does make it much easier to concentrate on road craft and knowledge. I don't see how I'm supposed to create exercises? Maybe I didn't make myself clear, I have absolutely no access to a car to practice in. I can't afford lessons or to buy a car because I'm not working and I'm not working partly because I can't drive. It's the mother of all catch 22s. I actually just lost out on a job opportunity only last month because I didn't have a license.

troyzer · 08-11-2016 12:12AM

wally79 wrote: »

Tbh it sounds like you just need more practice which obviously you don't have the opportunity for in a manual.

An automatic might help if your struggling with gear changes and with practice could get you past the test for now but really as above said its not the ideal solution.

Also you probably need to check if that will fulfil the license requirement of the job you are chasing

I agree, I really don't want to be stuck with an automatic license. As I said, if I get the automatic license and the job I plan on trying to go for my manual license. I'll be in a much better position financially to do it and I'll have more time to do it properly. I'm not really struggling with the gear changes, it's just that I'm not doing it from muscle memory. I'm not experienced enough to the point where you just do these things on autopilot.

The best way I can describe it is if you play guitar or piano. When I originally learned guitar I was crap at first. After a year I was grand playing the guitar but I couldn't sing simultaneously because I was still concentrating on getting the chords right. Now I can sing or have a full blown conversation while playing guitar and don't have a second thought. It's that automatic muscle memory I haven't got and the only way to do it is putting in the hours behind the wheel which I just don't have the option to do.

Del2005 · 08-11-2016 01:49AM

troyzer wrote: »

I agree, I really don't want to be stuck with an automatic license. As I said, if I get the automatic license and the job I plan on trying to go for my manual license. I'll be in a much better position financially to do it and I'll have more time to do it properly. I'm not really struggling with the gear changes, it's just that I'm not doing it from muscle memory. I'm not experienced enough to the point where you just do these things on autopilot.

The best way I can describe it is if you play guitar or piano. When I originally learned guitar I was crap at first. After a year I was grand playing the guitar but I couldn't sing simultaneously because I was still concentrating on getting the chords right. Now I can sing or have a full blown conversation while playing guitar and don't have a second thought. It's that automatic muscle memory I haven't got and the only way to do it is putting in the hours behind the wheel which I just don't have the option to do.

You say that a licence is essential for the job. What type of vehicle will you be driving a van or car? Very few vans are auto and not many companies will have auto cars. Will you be getting a new car if you get a job or one from the company fleet? As the only way you can get a job is if they already have an auto or lease a new auto for someone just out of college m

troyzer · 08-11-2016 01:55AM

Del2005 wrote: »

You say that a licence is essential for the job. What type of vehicle will you be driving a van or car? Very few vans are auto and not many companies will have auto cars. Will you be getting a new car if you get a job or one from the company fleet? As the only way you can get a job is if they already have an auto or lease a new auto for someone just out of college m

It would be a car. They said they can provide a car but it would only be on an ad hoc basis, not a real company car. So realistically I'd just have my own car. Which is why I don't think the automatic license is going to hurt me there. Ordinarily the sector would require a manual license but this job is slightly different.

cantdecide · 08-11-2016 09:33AM

troyzer wrote: »

Would I then have an automatic full license and my learner permit simultaneously? Would I have to renew my learner permit in February?

Yes. If you got the full B with the auto restriction and wanted to go back and get the restriction removed, the thing to do would be apply for the full restricted licence and simultaneously get a replacement learner permit with the B category again.

troyzer wrote: »

Would it be as simple as booking a manual test sometime next year and giving myself the time to do it properly

You would have to do the driving test itself all over again but in a manual car. The test is the same.

troyzer wrote: »

would getting an automatic license somehow reset the whole process and I'd have to apply for a manual learner permit and do the lessons all over again?

Apart from having to hold a new learner permit, no. You have completed EDT, you won't have to do it again unless you completely gave up driving and let your permit expire for 5 or more years.

You can renew your permit up to three months in advance, btw. As of today, if you gor your first permit on or before 08/02/2015, you can renew it now.

I stand by what I say- the restriction is a last resort. You would be in a truly tiny minority of people with the restriction and if there were any chance you would be expected to use company vehicles then you would be disadvantaged.

If you are certain of getting work and that work requires a full licence and/ or access to your own or company vehicles then I say a full, unrestricted licence is a tool of your trade. If having your own car, this might give you an advantage over other applicants, you could look at this as an opportunity. Otherwise you could end up in a job interview scenario admitting you can only driver automatic cars which is less than ideal I'm sure.

Are you anticipating buying a car?

Sam Hain · 09-11-2016 06:25PM

Try the test in an automatic, if you pass, get the job and then address any gaps in your licence when financially better to do so. Don't be shamed into going for a manual licence straight away and the fact that you have access to 2 automatic cars makes this a no brainer for now.

Raging_Ninja · 11-11-2016 07:32PM

You shouldn't be looking at restricting your licence when what you need to do is reorder your priorities so that you can do more than 20 hours driving in a year and a half.

The best way to do this is buy 8 lessons up front and do them over the next 2 months. Don't have someone buy them for you - get some of your skin in the game and buy the lessons yourself with whatever money you have at hand. A more extreme version of this is to buy a car.

If the job after the MSc actually matters to you and the licence is a requirement then this is what you should do rather than lowering your expectations to avoid disappointment

troyzer · 15-11-2016 09:12PM

Sam Hain wrote: »

Try the test in an automatic, if you pass, get the job and then address any gaps in your licence when financially better to do so. Don't be shamed into going for a manual licence straight away and the fact that you have access to 2 automatic cars makes this a no brainer for now.

This is exactly my thinking.

troyzer · 15-11-2016 09:16PM

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

You shouldn't be looking at restricting your licence when what you need to do is reorder your priorities so that you can do more than 20 hours driving in a year and a half.

The best way to do this is buy 8 lessons up front and do them over the next 2 months. Don't have someone buy them for you - get some of your skin in the game and buy the lessons yourself with whatever money you have at hand. A more extreme version of this is to buy a car.

If the job after the MSc actually matters to you and the licence is a requirement then this is what you should do rather than lowering your expectations to avoid disappointment

This isn't terrible advice and it's basically what I was trying to do towards the end of my MSc when I moved back to Ireland to write up my thesis. There's not much I can do about the last 18 months and not having much experience. I wasn't in Ireland and it wasn't worth starting all over again in the UK.

Buying the lessons in bulk is what I originally did with the EDT but I don't have two months now nor do I have the money to do 8 lessons. I'm completely broke and I can't even claim the dole at the moment. I took out the last of my credit union savings to buy a month of insurance on my mother's automatic and booked a test for a cancellation slot.

I'm not sure what the last thing you said meant. It's a rough job market and unfortunately my MSc has made me overqualified for a lot of jobs. I recently missed out on a job in Aldi explicitly because they didn't think I was committed to working there (they were right). Is that what you meant by lowering expectations?

Raging_Ninja · 16-11-2016 07:20PM

By lowering expectations I meant downgrading the licence to an automatic.

Galbin · 16-11-2016 10:09PM

Troyzer

You and I are in a very similar position. I have been "learning" to drive for a long time, but I have nobody to practice with and no car to practice in. I have no parents, and no driving siblings near me. I also don't have any friends with a full license. I recently got my MSc and about 70% of the jobs in my industry require a full clean license. However, it's all one's own transport, so I wouldn't have to drive company vehicles. My thinking was that I am eliminating about 70% of the jobs out there, thus leaving me with a tiny pool. So surely it would make sense to get a license ASAP. Once I get confidence on the road and driving, I am sure I could eventually learn a manual. In fact, my neighbour, cousin and aunt all learned automatics first because they just couldn't get the confidence on the road in a manual. Then after they got their licenses they switched to manual. Since you have access to an automatic, it makes the most sense to me.

Pretzill · 10-12-2016 05:46PM

I'm in a slightly similar position - in that - I haven't a huge amount of road experience and the car I will be driving is an automatic.

I'm late to driving (did lessons in my twenties, left it - lessons and a failed test in my thirties and now in my late forties I need to drive because circumstances have changed)

So my options are limited we have an automatic van Jeep type thing - It's the only car available to me to learn in and so I'm going to go for an automatic licence - to be honest it doesn't bother me at all that I won't operate a manual - the only time I did a test I failed it on the clutch -

Now I'm getting on a bit but my advice to you is do the test in an automatic and upgrade at a later date if you feel you need to. You will learn everything you need to know about driving bar the gears obviously in an automatic. Go for it.

InTheTrees · 10-12-2016 05:50PM

Whats the penalty for being caught driving a manual when you're only licensed to drive an automatic?

Can you add on a 'rating' to drive a manual later on?

Agent Smith · 11-12-2016 11:32PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Whats the penalty for being caught driving a manual when you're only licensed to drive an automatic?

Can you add on a 'rating' to drive a manual later on?

Driving without a licence i would imagine. Your not licenced to drive a manual car.

Galbin · 13-12-2016 04:05PM

Can anyone explain to me what happens if you apply to do a manual test if you already have an automatic licence? Can you still keep driving your automatic car, or do you have to stop driving that while waiting for the manual test? Seems *insane* to me if you are stuck on a learner permit and not even allowed to use your automatic licence.

cantdecide · 14-12-2016 10:57PM

Galbin wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what happens if you apply to do a manual test if you already have an automatic licence? Can you still keep driving your automatic car, or do you have to stop driving that while waiting for the manual test? Seems *insane* to me if you are stuck on a learner permit and not even allowed to use your automatic licence.

That would be insane. But luckily...

You will keep your full licence but you will be given a new learner permit separately without the 78 restriction (auto trans) but with the 999 restriction (must be accompanied by a fully licenced driver, ie a full licenced manual car driver).

When you're in a manual car you're on your learner permit; when you're in an auto car you're on your full licence.

There is no distinction in terms of the test- the test is the test; it's only a matter of whether you bring an auto or a manual car on the day.

Learned to drive manual, should I go for automatic?

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