Boundary Extension for City?

Squidvicious wrote: »

Nail on head as regards the moral high ground that Waterford posters claim on the boundary issue while painting those of us on the other side of the debate as knuckle dragging neanderthals. Fact is that there's a huge amount of one-upmanship going on and some of the motivation on the Waterford side is about putting one over on the neighbours. There is a hint of a persecution complex in Waterford as regards it's national status. What better way to big itself up than by grabbing a slice of the neighbours? I'm by no means saying that every one in favour of the move thinks this way. Of course, there are rational arguments for and against a boundary change. However, one-upmanship is a motivation for many.

County identity is important in Ireland. One of the first questions Irish people ask one another is where are you from. It's no small matter to be moved from one county to another. Is it so unreasonable that many of us want to remain with Kilkenny?

The big ticket issues for Waterford are the hospital, IDA investment, the status of the IT. I fail to see how the boundary move will affect these issues. The only difference most of us would see would probably be more housing on that side. It won't make a jot of difference to the real issues facing Waterford.

Of course, the real point of the exercise from Waterford County Council's point of view is the boost that they would get from gaining South Kilkenny rates. However, it's far from self evident that it is fair that the rates income from, say Belview, ought to be redirected to Waterford.

Quote in the KK People this week - "7,500 people displaced". Where do ye think ye are? The Gaza Strip?

Squidvicious wrote: »

Nail on head as regards the moral high ground that Waterford posters claim on the boundary issue while painting those of us on the other side of the debate as knuckle dragging neanderthals. Fact is that there's a huge amount of one-upmanship going on and some of the motivation on the Waterford side is about putting one over on the neighbours. There is a hint of a persecution complex in Waterford as regards it's national status. What better way to big itself up than by grabbing a slice of the neighbours? I'm by no means saying that every one in favour of the move thinks this way. Of course, there are rational arguments for and against a boundary change. However, one-upmanship is a motivation for many.

County identity is important in Ireland. One of the first questions Irish people ask one another is where are you from. It's no small matter to be moved from one county to another. Is it so unreasonable that many of us want to remain with Kilkenny?

The big ticket issues for Waterford are the hospital, IDA investment, the status of the IT. I fail to see how the boundary move will affect these issues. The only difference most of us would see would probably be more housing on that side. It won't make a jot of difference to the real issues facing Waterford.

Of course, the real point of the exercise from Waterford County Council's point of view is the boost that they would get from gaining South Kilkenny rates. However, it's far from self evident that it is fair that the rates income from, say Belview, ought to be redirected to Waterford.

The same argument can be used the opposite way, what about all the Waterford people stuck across the border? Does county identity not matter to us? Most people I know have been waiting years for this to happen. The notion that "7,500 people will become displaced" is complete fantasy.

I work in Waterford, Study in Waterford, relax in Waterford, shop in Waterford. Whenever I need an emergency service I call Waterford, whenever a family member is sick they go to Waterford Regional Hospital the list goes on and on.

Moving the goalposts regarding "county identity" (GAA argument is the only one you types seem to have) and bringing up other issues like the IT, hospital etc are completely irrelevant to the discussion of the border extension. This should be a pragmatic decision based on what's best for the people who live there and the region in general, not some romantic notion of "county pride" You don't want to have that conversation, you want to throw on the black and amber, stick your fingers in your ear and shout "la la la la la"

Also your claim about Waterford feeling insecure on the national stage is complete bollocks.

Parachutes wrote: »

The same argument can be used the opposite way, what about all the Waterford people stuck across the border? Does county identity not matter to us? Most people I know have been waiting years for this to happen. The notion that "7,500 people will become displaced" is complete fantasy.

I work in Waterford, Study in Waterford, relax in Waterford, shop in Waterford. Whenever I need an emergency service I call Waterford, whenever a family member is sick they go to Waterford Regional Hospital the list goes on and on.

Moving the goalposts regarding "county identity" (GAA argument is the only one you types seem to have) and bringing up other issues like the IT, hospital etc are completely irrelevant to the discussion of the border extension. This should be a pragmatic decision based on what's best for the people who live there and the region in general, not some romantic notion of "county pride" You don't want to have that conversation, you want to throw on the black and amber, stick your fingers in your ear and shout "la la la la la"

Also your claim about Waterford feeling insecure on the national stage is complete bollocks.

Complete bollocks? A man for all seasons, aren't you? We've just heard other people above saying that there's a national campaign to do down Waterford. If that's not insecurity, I don't know what is.
The point is that a boundary change really makes very little difference to the running of any local area. I have seen no compelling arguments to show what benefits it would bring to anybody or why it's so necessary. Behind it all, the people who argue for boundary change are also mainly interested in county identity when all is said and done.
The issues that I raised are the important issues for Waterford which will not be affected by a boundary change.
As for your reference to "you types", I think that I tried to put my argument in a reasoned way. Your response is typical of the utter lack of respect shown to those of us who don't want a boundary change merely because we don't all roll over and say what a wonderful idea it is.
The somewhat vitriolic and emotional tone of your response is telling. As I say, the boundary change will make no noticeable issue to everyday lives nor will it alter the real issues facing Waterford. You socialise, shop etc in Waterford. How does changing a boundary change any of that? Why would you get so worked up about a mere administrative boundary change unless county identity mattered to you too?
As for your argument about unlucky Waterford people caught on the wrong side of the border, I don't really understand it. Waterford people don't have to move to Co.Kilkenny, you know.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The issues you raised are (or should be) of great concern to all who live in the region. They are not specifically 'Waterford problems' but more 'South-East Region' problems.
The boundary extension is a separate issue; one that has been ongoing for many decades. Nevertheless a 'stronger Waterford' would benefit the region as a whole .... including those who object to the extension. The boundary extension would be expected to produce a 'stronger Waterford'.

Without wishing to sound like a broken record, I don't see what difference it will make so we'll have to agree to differ on that one - I doubt we'll convince one another
Funnily enough, I would have a bit more time for the proposed extension if we were to be made part of an expanded Waterford city. However, I just can't see the sense behind becoming part of a county which stretches almost to Youghal. The ideal scenario would be a wholesale redrafting of administrative boundaries in Ireland. The old traditional county boundaries could remain but with entirely new boundaries reflecting the modern Ireland. It could be done so as to save some money too.
And I agree that those issues are important for the whole region and not just Waterford. Regional solidarity hasn't been a strong point of the South East for whatever reason and we have all suffered as a result.

Roanmore wrote: »

:mad::mad:

Is that a genuine quote? Jesus Christ!
The Editor and headline writer should be sacked for that. If they were looking at the Syria crisis everyday they'd see what displacement meant.
Hope somebody pulls them up on it.

Haha, I can see it now, oxfam ads on TV.
Celebrities crawling all over ferrybank(ground zero) trying to find the most heart wrenching stories,
International leaders pleading with John halligan,

Squidvicious wrote: »

Yeah, not really the editor's finest moment. You'd have to assume that he was sniggering a little as he wrote it it's so over the top in parts. And I doubt he has any inside track on what the boundary commission will decide. I may well be wrong but I don't see them going for a change. After all, the decision in Roscommon/Westmeath was no change. Admittedly, there could be different factors at play there. However, the big issue is rates and the proposed boundary change would cause a huge revenue loss to Kilkenny and would have serious ramifications for the county. They would need pretty overwhelming reasoning to inflict that on Kilkenny.
That said, there is a possibility of a draw. Waterford asked for the maximum - a boundary extension as far as the bypass and Belview. If it's open to them, the commission might reject that but allow a smaller boundary move.

The Kk people was tongue in cheek, purposely over the top. Sean Keane is the editor, is one of the famous listowel Keane's- his da wrote "The Field" so much of his writing draws from this, over dramatisation. I don't think anyone in all seriousness considers there'll expulsions!
I think no change too- the report is non binding, it has zero powers in itself and would have to be brought through both houses of the Oireacthtas. This is a none issue outside of the area, my feeling is both local authorities will be told to work together but there won't be a boundary change- as per Athlone.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

have wwn done anything on this yet?

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/12/16/waterford-armed-forces-bombard-kilkenny-rebels-in-battle-for-ferrybank/

Pretty good effort from the WWN lads in fairness:D

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

Max Powers wrote: »

Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Mary butler (ff) on wlr saying she (and ff) will fight boundary extension...is she completely ignorant of kk mismanagement of f-bank area, importance of this issue to Waterford city, or in some totally misguided attempt to get favour with Michael Martin.

a. From this and other things it sounds like the boundary extension will be recommended.

b. This is another example of why I have believed for a long time that the city should be a constituency on its own. These county TD’s simple do not represent the city full stop.

Also, I hate FG for the way they have treated Waterford while in power this time around. But I would consider voting for them again if they carry through with the boundary extension. It would be one of the most refreshing things I have seen in politics in Ireland. For once a decisions would be made on common sense and not the tribal BS we get in politics in Ireland.

Max Powers wrote: »

Well, if Mary butler can't at least pretend that she has Waterford interest at heart,I will be writing to her to ask her to resign, not fit to represent Waterford.

Don't forget she also signed the Eviction Bill, shes a complete and utter puppet of FF bigwigs.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/93554-waterford-fianna-fail-td-mary-butler-says-she-will-vote-against-waterford-boundary-extension.html

Did she say why she is opposed to the boundary extension? Sounds like a party decision from Fianna Fail.

Squidvicious wrote: »

Without wishing to sound like a broken record, I don't see what difference it will make so we'll have to agree to differ on that one - I doubt we'll convince one another
Funnily enough, I would have a bit more time for the proposed extension if we were to be made part of an expanded Waterford city. However, I just can't see the sense behind becoming part of a county which stretches almost to Youghal. The ideal scenario would be a wholesale redrafting of administrative boundaries in Ireland. The old traditional county boundaries could remain but with entirely new boundaries reflecting the modern Ireland. It could be done so as to save some money too.
And I agree that those issues are important for the whole region and not just Waterford. Regional solidarity hasn't been a strong point of the South East for whatever reason and we have all suffered as a result.

A lot of sense in these comments, in fairness to you. However, on your point about Youghal, can you see how people in Ferrybank feel how their interests as suburban residents of Waterford are not represented very well by being in a constituency that extends up to Carlow?

fricatus wrote: »

A lot of sense in these comments, in fairness to you. However, on your point about Youghal, can you see how people in Ferrybank feel how their interests as suburban residents of Waterford are not represented very well by being in a constituency that extends up to Carlow?

Yes, I can certainly see how that's an issue for many too, though constituency boundaries don't have to coincide with county boundaries(for example, parts of Carlow vote in Wicklow) and redrawing constituency boundaries has a whole load of other problems too in so far as each one needs to have a certain number of TD's per voter so they're not simple to redraw.

It goes back to what I say about wholesale revision of boundaries being the way to go, though it's hard to see that happening nationally.

Max Powers wrote: »

mary.butler@oireachtas.ie

I think everyone should email this disgraceful TD after what she said today, I have just emailed her to show tell her that she is way out of sync with the Waterford public opinion.



"..............You were voted in to represent Waterford, do what is best for Waterford, it doesnt get any clearer than that, it is shocking that you would go on radio and say you are not in favour, not fully supportive or muddy the waters of something that could be really beneficial to Waterford. As a consequence of this you are not fit to represent Waterford or Waterford's best interests and you should resign."

But you can't just bulldoze over Kilkenny public opinion (its equally as important btw) either just to change the name over a certain part of another county. You just are so blinkered by your blue and white tinted glasses, all you can see is what you perceive as good for you( you mention Waterford continuously so please don't pretend it's some kind of non existent "concern" for the SE) - you can't ride rough shod over Kilkenny- FF know this and aren't going to go risking their 2/3 seat quota in Carlow Kk when they can barely get one seat in Waterford. I Totally ageee with them on maintaining county boundaries (I don't care if you think they're based on historical things- if that was the case was the big push to stick a Waterford sign up?).
You can send pointless emails ad nauseam to this lady but it'll make no difference whatsoever.