Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Outlaw Pete · 05-12-2016 08:49PM

me_right_one wrote: »

Thanks Widdershins. Its a real situation alright, but I meant for Louise O'Neill, not for me!

Too late. Ambulance has been called.

Come this way please...

Jayop · 05-12-2016 08:59PM

I've never actually listened to or thought about the words of Baby it's cold Outside before now, but you know, it is a bit pushy.

I ought to say, no, no, no sir (mind if I move in closer?)
At least I'm gonna say that I tried (what's the sense in hurtin' my pride?)

I lolled at that line after having read on the last page about the song.

Widdershins · 05-12-2016 09:32PM

FortySeven wrote: »

She's nowhere near meltdown. She's just another attention seeker. She'll be fine as long as she's getting it.

There are people who thrive on attention.

Widdershins · 05-12-2016 09:33PM

Jayop wrote: »

I've never actually listened to or thought about the words of Baby it's cold Outside before now, but you know, it is a bit pushy.

I lolled at that line after having read on the last page about the song.

Poetic license? Music would be quite boring if everything was straightlaced and every single word and lyric was above board. Sterile.

Jayop · 05-12-2016 09:38PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Poetic license? Music would be quite boring if everything was straightlaced and every single word and lyric was above board. Sterile.

I'll assume the song was also written 40+ years ago when having to twist a woman's arm into getting a snog was simply how it was done. The woman turned you down a few times even if she wanted to go out with you.

Widdershins · 05-12-2016 09:43PM

Jayop wrote: »

I'll assume the song was also written 40+ years ago when having to twist a woman's arm into getting a snog was simply how it was done. The woman turned you down a few times even if she wanted to go out with you.

Well kind of. As someone else said she couldn't be seen to be ''easy''.

At points in the song it does seem like she's keen to stay and only being coy and ''playing hard to get'' as they used to say.

Even if it was more like what Louise is claiming, songs don't have to be moral lessons. I think, viewed through any lens, it's a lot classier than most of what's on the radio now, which can be pretty graphic and ott.

sydthebeat · 05-12-2016 10:30PM

me_right_one wrote: »

If you thought someone was suicidal, or needed psychiatric help generally, who do you tell? Can anyone just ring their GP and say so-and-so seems to need attention? How is this done?

The very first thing you do is to ask the person out straight "are you thinking about suicide", they will be quick to tell you if they are or are not.

If you are not able to do this then certainly make your worries known to a person closer to them, i.e. a family member, or a guard, emergency worker. etc.... someone that's available at that time.
If they do day they are considering it then it's the same outcome. Listen to their story in a non judgemental way, you don't have to try to solve anything, just listen. And then at the end explain that you'd like to help but feel you aren't equipped and that you will bring them to someone who can eg those that are mentioned above.

People who are considering suicide will give off hints or 'invitations' and it's up to us to see and recognise these invitations for help.

Goya · 06-12-2016 12:33AM

Dr Jakub wrote: »

Aw the poor baby, having to dress sexy for a date.

Not that she had to. Sure, anyone wants to look nice for a date but uncomfortable underwear is not a requirement and only she forced herself to do it.

With regard to the treatment of women in strict Islamic societies - I don't doubt western feminists are condemning of it, but I don't see the high profile ones in this country actually talking about it. I do think there is an element of not wanting to be seen as racist and "it's their culture". Recently I saw Una Mullally tweet that women will be brutalised under Trump. I saw someone on Facebook commenting to a comment by a woman living in western Europe that we "undesirables" - women, people of colour and LGBT people - need to stick together etc. Those two social media comments annoyed me so much. As a woman in the west I am insulted on behalf of women in countries where they actually are brutalised and are undesirables.

I bet they would give anything to be women here.

Grayson · 06-12-2016 04:26AM

Widdershins wrote: »

So far feminists have explained it to me more or less like this:

Male circumcision (because it's associated in their minds with Jews, even though it's also common among Muslims) = our business

Female genital mutilation (because it's associated with Islamic countries, despite not being a religious practice)= Not out religion, none of our business, we don't interfere with other peoples 'culture'.

I've never heard a feminist that says FGM is ok or should be ignored. There are organisations that are against FGM that are choc full of feminists.

Widdershins · 06-12-2016 05:02AM

Grayson wrote: »

I've never heard a feminist that says FGM is ok or should be ignored. There are organisations that are against FGM that are choc full of feminists.

Of course not. They are unlikely to blurt it out, of their own volition, are they?

After speaking at length to a couple of feminists they admitted that they don't feel they are qualified to meddle in Islamic cultural matters.
They were evasive as could be so I very much doubt you are going to ever hear an Irish feminist stand up and publicly announce that ''FGM is ok/should be ignored''. They're not that stupid. The lack of interest shown by Irish feminists in the media is a good indicator as far as I'm concerned. I don't care that they're ''only'' Irish feminists it's supposed to be a 'sisterhood' not a local first world whinge club.

FortySeven · 06-12-2016 10:55AM

Widdershins wrote: »

Of course not. They are unlikely to blurt it out, of their own volition, are they?

After speaking at length to a couple of feminists they admitted that they don't feel they are qualified to meddle in Islamic cultural matters.
They were evasive as could be so I very much doubt you are going to ever hear an Irish feminist stand up and publicly announce that ''FGM is ok/should be ignored''. They're not that stupid. The lack of interest shown by Irish feminists in the media is a good indicator as far as I'm concerned. I don't care that they're ''only'' Irish feminists it's supposed to be a 'sisterhood' not a local first world whinge club.

The recent 'femfest' manifesto was choc full of things feminists want to fight. FGM was not mentioned on their list. I wish I could post a link but I'm on my phone. Search Twitter for femfest and you will see a picture of the manifesto.

Outlaw Pete · 06-12-2016 01:54PM

Just seeing now that the rape case of Alice Paquet in Canada has now been shown to have been a lie. I even believed that one myself as the details she gave was so intricate; members of the police manipulating her etc and she had even said that they had brought her to get stitches in the hospital and all. There were protests on the streets about rape culture in reaction to it and the government pledged a quarter of a billion to tackle it or something close to it. Wow. What the hell is going on in western society right now with all this moral panic nonsense over rape and women's safety. If she doesn't serve time the world is nuts.

homerjay2005 · 06-12-2016 02:15PM

Widdershins wrote: »

She definitely doesn't represent all feminism but she's turning people off feminism, or at least making people uncomfortable with the label ''feminist'', in my opinion.

i dunno, if you look at her twitter page, she does have alot of "fans" who adore her...they are like sheep and believe and lap up everything that she says.

its actually quite disturbing how one person can completely brainwash people into thinking they are second class citizens when what she should be doing is promoting equality and diversity for everybody.

Widdershins · 06-12-2016 02:58PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i dunno, if you look at her twitter page, she does have alot of "fans" who adore her...they are like sheep and believe and lap up everything that she says.

its actually quite disturbing how one person can completely brainwash people into thinking they are second class citizens when what she should be doing is promoting equality and diversity for everybody.

She does, they're easily led

ohnonotgmail · 06-12-2016 03:05PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Of course not. They are unlikely to blurt it out, of their own volition, are they?

After speaking at length to a couple of feminists they admitted that they don't feel they are qualified to meddle in Islamic cultural matters.
They were evasive as could be so I very much doubt you are going to ever hear an Irish feminist stand up and publicly announce that ''FGM is ok/should be ignored''. They're not that stupid. The lack of interest shown by Irish feminists in the media is a good indicator as far as I'm concerned. I don't care that they're ''only'' Irish feminists it's supposed to be a 'sisterhood' not a local first world whinge club.

Its a big jump from

admitted that they don't feel they are qualified

to

FGM is ok/should be ignored

I hate this bull**** that you must care about absolutely every single problem that exists in the world and if you dont you're just a

first world whinge club

. Nobody has time to spend on every single problem that exists. You had people spouting the same nonsense in the Mike Pence recently.

Zulu · 06-12-2016 03:28PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I hate this bull**** that you must care about absolutely every single problem ...Nobody has time to spend on every single problem that exists.

This is true, but the point being made is that her prioritisation of "Baby it's cold outside", "Rape Culture in Ireland", and, say, "mansplaining" etc. over FGM, or the more serious issues facing women elsewhere in the world is very telling.

She (and some others) are choosing their platform to prioritise these trivial or non-existent issues in the pursuit of attention and money. These "feminists" are applauded and idolised for selfishly squandering their opportunities and have the gall to say it's in the pursuit of equality - which clearly it isn't.

THAT is the problem. That, and the fact that others will naively row in to defend these callous and selfish gits because they follow blindly the dogma in ignorance.

ohnonotgmail · 06-12-2016 03:32PM

Zulu wrote: »

This is true, but the point being made is that her prioritisation of "Baby it's cold outside", "Rape Culture in Ireland", and, say, "mansplaining" etc. over FGM, or the more serious issues facing women elsewhere in the world is very telling.

She (and some others) are choosing their platform to prioritise these trivial or non-existent issues in the pursuit of attention and money. These "feminists" are applauded and idolised for selfishly squandering their opportunities and have the gall to say it's in the pursuit of equality - which clearly it isn't.

THAT is the problem. That, and the fact that others will naively row in to defend these callous and selfish gits because they follow blindly the dogma in ignorance.

she writes a newpaper column in Ireland so her focus is ireland. she is not gloria steinem.

ohnonotgmail · 06-12-2016 03:33PM

Widdershins wrote: »

Of course not. They are unlikely to blurt it out, of their own volition, are they?

After speaking at length to a couple of feminists they admitted that they don't feel they are qualified to meddle in Islamic cultural matters.
They were evasive as could be so I very much doubt you are going to ever hear an Irish feminist stand up and publicly announce that ''FGM is ok/should be ignored''. They're not that stupid. The lack of interest shown by Irish feminists in the media is a good indicator as far as I'm concerned. I don't care that they're ''only'' Irish feminists it's supposed to be a 'sisterhood' not a local first world whinge club.

One further thing. FGM is not an islamic cultural matter.

Zulu · 06-12-2016 03:43PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

she writes a newpaper column in Ireland so her focus is ireland. she is not gloria steinem.

Ah, well, that's ok then. /sarcasm

kunst nugget · 06-12-2016 04:03PM

Zulu wrote: »

This is true, but the point being made is that her prioritisation of "Baby it's cold outside", "Rape Culture in Ireland", and, say, "mansplaining" etc. over FGM, or the more serious issues facing women elsewhere in the world is very telling.

Tbf, most of us in the first world care about more about the small annoyances in our everyday life than the suffering of people elsewhere - that's why first world problems is such a cliché.

The majority of us are going to care more about the wifi cutting out in our house than we are about 25 people being drone-bombed at a wedding. Most of the time I've seen people bring up the suffering of people in third world on the likes of facebook, is when they are trying to make other people feel bad in a 'just saying' kind of way…

Outlaw Pete · 06-12-2016 04:18PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

she writes a newpaper column in Ireland so her focus is ireland. she is not gloria steinem.

She posts about issues in America though. BLM and the Stanford case for example.

The truth is that she doesn't want really serious issues in her timeline as for one minute to be tweeting about Malala Yousafzai getting shot in the head for daring to go to school, and then the next for her to be trying to highlight the issue of rape culture in 1920's swing tunes... would someone how dilute her plight a touch.

FortySeven · 06-12-2016 04:20PM

I wonder would she come and join us were someone to post a link to her Twitter feed?

snotboogie · 06-12-2016 04:29PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Widdershins wrote: »

Of course not. They are unlikely to blurt it out, of their own volition, are they?

After speaking at length to a couple of feminists they admitted that they don't feel they are qualified to meddle in Islamic cultural matters.
They were evasive as could be so I very much doubt you are going to ever hear an Irish feminist stand up and publicly announce that ''FGM is ok/should be ignored''. They're not that stupid. The lack of interest shown by Irish feminists in the media is a good indicator as far as I'm concerned. I don't care that they're ''only'' Irish feminists it's supposed to be a 'sisterhood' not a local first world whinge club.

Its a big jump from

admitted that they don't feel they are qualified

to

FGM is ok/should be ignored

I hate this bull**** that you must care about absolutely every single problem that exists in the world and if you dont you're just a

first world whinge club

. Nobody has time to spend on every single problem that exists. You had people spouting the same nonsense in the Mike Pence recently.

SJW's widely condemn and write character assassinations on Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former muslim who is now critical of the religion and a leading opponent of female genital mutilation.

ohnonotgmail · 06-12-2016 04:31PM

snotboogie wrote: »

SJW's widely condemn and write character assassinations on Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former muslim who is now critical of the religion and a leading opponent of female genital mutilation.

no idea how this relates to anything i posted.

Widdershins · 06-12-2016 04:32PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Its a big jump from to

I hate this bull**** that you must care about absolutely every single problem that exists in the world and if you dont you're just a . Nobody has time to spend on every single problem that exists. You had people spouting the same nonsense in the Mike Pence recently.

THe bit you quoted from my post was a bit I quoted directly from another poster's post. I'm not explaining it, just look back through.(''FGM is ok/should be ignored'')

It's not the first time you've picked at the same thing in my posts.

FGM is an Islamic cultural matter. It is not a religious matter. Islam does not oblige anyone to undergo FGM. It is supported and recommended by some mullahs though, and is common in Islamic cultures.

It is not ONLY practiced in Islamic cultures if that's what you mean.

And that's all the hair-splitting I'm answering, for one day.

Outlaw Pete · 06-12-2016 04:33PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I wonder would she come and join us were someone to post a link to her Twitter feed?

I think she's already aware of it / us :P

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/794815337418067968

Widdershins · 06-12-2016 04:34PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

She posts about issues in America though. BLM and the Stanford case for example.

.

Well, then. There's really no excuse now.

FortySeven · 06-12-2016 04:35PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I think she's already aware of it / us :P

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/794815337418067968

That burned so bad I dropped my telephone.

ohnonotgmail · 06-12-2016 04:36PM

Widdershins wrote: »

THe bit you quoted from my post was a bit I quoted directly from another poster's post. I'm not explaining it, just look back through.(''FGM is ok/should be ignored'')

It's not the first time you've picked at the same thing in my posts.

i do my best to ignore your posts so that is not true.

Widdershins wrote: »

FGM is an Islamic cultural matter. It is not a religious matter. Islam does not oblige anyone to undergo FGM. It is supported and recommended by some mullahs though, and is common in Islamic cultures.

It is not ONLY practiced in Islamic cultures if that's what you mean.

And that's all the hair-splitting I'm answering, for one day.

FGM is not the preserve of muslims. It is practiced by christians and other religions as well. That is not hair-splitting.

Widdershins · 06-12-2016 04:37PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Tbf, most of us in the first world care about more about the small annoyances in our everyday life than the suffering of people elsewhere - that's why first world problems is such a cliché.

The majority of us are going to care more about the wifi cutting out in our house than we are about 25 people being drone-bombed at a wedding. Most of the time I've seen people bring up the suffering of people in third world on the likes of facebook, is when they are trying to make other people feel bad in a 'just saying' kind of way…

I think more about everyday things alright. I certainly don't care more about little everyday things though. If you constantly focused on serious things you'd end up morose. However LON is supposedly running a feminist ..thing..that's more the kind of place and time to be highlighting serious stuff.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Comments