New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

JaMarcusHustle · 30-11-2016 12:31AM

Jamie Collins is literally the worst player in the NFL.

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 02:00AM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I'm not sure why you are including Collins in the group, because those players service for the franchise spoke for itself along with their consistency down through the years.

For me, Collins didn't even come close to the likes of Seymour, Wilfork or Mayo and the only defensive player moved on that really pissed me off during the Belichick era was Seymour. Losing Seymour still bugs me to this day, watching Wilfork in a Texans jersey makes me sad but losing Collins? I was over it after a couple of hours. When I spoke of underwhelming draft picks, I was talking about the likes of Meriweather and the gimped Easley, then throw in Jones and Collins and that's four 1st round defensive draft picks that were pretty much wasted. Because none of them turned into long term pillars of the franchise, that you'd like a 1st round pick to be. Would have been nice if one of those picks had of gone to giving Brady a 1st round toy for a change. Injury forced Mayo to retire and money made Vince move on and we've had less talk about those two greats and what they did for the franchise, than we had about Collins and that for me is laughable. Collin is gone and I'm onto The Rams

Merriweather, Easley and Jones were first round picks though. Collins was 2nd round. That bad he suddenly jumped up a round eh? 70% of his first round defensive picks worked out quite well. 10 total. But you are saying Jones was underwelming? Easley and Merriweather were **** but Jones? Are you for real? Other than the weed incident he actually performed better than most. We only traded him as we weren't going to pay him.

In the 2nd round we have had so many picks over the years hard to really say any of them were high investment including Collins but Collins actually gave us 2 solid seasons so hardly underwhelming.

As for the nonsense at the end? Wilfork gave the Pats a long career and it obvious as fook that we were going to ship him. It came as no surprise really as again the Pats don't pay people. As for Mayo a career full of injuries again no surprise he retired so why would there be a deal for either of them? Hardly the same as Collins as his trade came out of the blue.

I actually wonder if I search through your posts will I find great comments about Collins and Jones? I bet you I will which makes your opinion now a complete uturn on both of them just because the Pats offloaded them. You literally are the Pats fan I was talking about.

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 02:14AM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Jamie Collins is literally the worst player in the NFL.

He voted for Trump also I hear

eagle eye · 30-11-2016 09:26AM

We need to move on from all this Collins stuff. People are divided on him. Personally thought he was going to be a great one for us but he didn't look great this season. I was still shocked when he was traded and especially as we got nothing for it.

We really don't know what went on but I'd be of the opinion that there was some issue that forced Bill's hand because it just isn't his stye to trade somebody away in the middle of the season that isn't costing us big money. I can't remember the last time that we traded away a big name player during the season, maybe Randy Moss? That was a good few years ago now if he was the last one.

Anyways when you look at it rationally and understand that we don't have all the details then imo you have to come to the conclusion that there was nothing else that could be done only trade Collins. We don't know why and we more than likely never will but you have to trust that Belichick isn't a fool and his trade history points to him having no other choice but to trade Collins away. So either you come to that conclusion or you decide that Belichick has suddenly lost the plot and I don't think that's the case.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-11-2016 11:46AM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

then throw in Jones and Collins and that's four 1st round defensive draft picks that were pretty much wasted.

I disagree on wasted. First they both played their parts in the recent SB win. Second we do get draft picks after trading them.
If only other teams had our problems

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-11-2016 12:13PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

It came as no surprise really as again the Pats don't pay people.

Devin McCourty is the fifth highest paid safety. Nate Solider is the 10th highest paid LT. Gronk is the 5th highest paid TE.
The Pats are rarely that far below the cap, so they clearly pay people.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 30-11-2016 02:59PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Devin McCourty is the fifth highest paid safety. Nate Solider is the 10th highest paid LT. Gronk is the 5th highest paid TE.
The Pats are rarely that far below the cap, so they clearly pay people.

Gronk is only the 5th highest paid TE? That's a steal.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-11-2016 04:42PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Gronk is only the 5th highest paid TE? That's a steal.

Not when he got the contact.
There was a chance that he wouldn't return as "Gronk" at the time, which is why he signed it.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 30-11-2016 04:48PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not when he got the contact.
There was a chance that he wouldn't return as "Gronk" at the time, which is why he signed it.

still a bargain now , either way I am sure he will get properly paid nexttime

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 05:59PM

Randall Victorious Pentagon wrote: »

Devin McCourty is the fifth highest paid safety. Nate Solider is the 10th highest paid LT. Gronk is the 5th highest paid TE.
The Pats are rarely that far below the cap, so they clearly pay people.

Not my point at all and you know that. You couldn't name on two hands the amount of guys we let go because we wouldn't pay them. The Patriots will only ever pay under the avg for the position or the avg. They will also only pay on what Bill sees as performance going forward. Did you really think I meant we literally don't pay people?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-11-2016 06:08PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Did you really think I meant we literally don't pay people?

Not now, but I can only go on what you wrote.
"The Pats don't pay" term has been used often before, to mean literally that, so wasn't sure if that's how you meant it.
In some cases they probably haven't come close to even market value for guys. But that's kinda Bills way, and it hasn't worked out too badly; it's rarely been a mistake. Bill rarely over pays guys.

Whether the Pats would have been more successful or not with a different strategy , I don't know.
But I remember he got a huge amount of stick for not keeping Revis. Those who criticized him for that have been very quiet lately (not speaking about this forum).

Son Of A Vidic · 30-11-2016 06:23PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Jamie Collins is literally the worst player in the NFL.

He might have given up two shockingly bad TD's to Owen Daniels which cost us the AFC title game in January. And looking at how bad the Panthers were, probably cost us another Superbowl too. But I wouldn't classify him in the worst player category.

Son Of A Vidic · 30-11-2016 07:36PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Merriweather, Easley and Jones were first round picks though.

Looks like I mixed the Collins pick up with 1st rounder Hightower, a player who's really worth keeping.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But you are saying Jones was underwelming? Easley and Merriweather were **** but Jones? Are you for real?

You watching the same player I was watching? Jones was usually burnt out by the final quarter of the season. The guy who could occasionally look great against average teams, but didn't do much against top quality opposition when it was really needed.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

As for the nonsense at the end? Wilfork gave the Pats a long career and it obvious as fook that we were going to ship him. It came as no surprise really as again the Pats don't pay people. As for Mayo a career full of injuries again no surprise he retired so why would there be a deal for either of them? Hardly the same as Collins as his trade came out of the blue.

You missed my point, that point being, Seymour, Wilfork and Mayo were greater servants to the franchise and greater impact players than Collins ever was, yet some can't seem to get over losing Collins, a lesser player imo.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I actually wonder if I search through your posts will I find great comments about Collins and Jones?

Out of Hightower, Butler, Collins and Jones, Jones was bottom of my list to keep and you'll see that in my previous posts. I was hoping to keep Hightower, Butler and Collins, but then I remembered the shocking AFC title game Collins had. I was as guilty as any of loving Collins's athleticism, but it went missing in the AFC title game and I've no doubt that didn't go down too well with Bill.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

You literally are the Pats fan I was talking about.

Is that the kind of fan who has continually criticised the defense and the priority it always gets, criticised the poor investment in the O line and criticised the lack of elite WR toys for Brady down the years? Ya that's me, guilty as charged, I'm a real homer alright.

eagle eye · 30-11-2016 08:08PM

As I said earlier, something obviously went wrong somewhere and Collins had to go. This had nothing to do with his performances imo, it was something else and we most likely will never know what.

All this pointing out a couple of poor games that Collins had are going to get us nowhere. The guy has moved on and we have to too.

This over and back stuff is ruining the thread imo.

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 08:19PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Looks like I mixed the Collins pick up with 1st rounder Hightower, a player who's really worth keeping.

Sure

You watching the same player I was watching? Jones was usually burnt out by the final quarter of the season. The guy who could occasionally look great against average teams, but didn't do much against top quality opposition when it was really needed.

Sure ok if you say so. You are entitled to your opinion.

You missed my point, that point being, Seymour, Wilfork and Mayo were greater servants to the franchise and greater impact players than Collins ever was, yet some can't seem to get over losing Collins, a lesser player imo.

No I clearly didn't miss your point. There was no issue to be had with Wilfork or Mayo leaving as we all knew it was coming for both of them. They were not unexpected losses or losses out of the blue. They served their time and were shipped on. The Patriot way shipped Wilfork money wise and he hasn't put in the same performance since leaving which is no surprise and Mayo retired due to injuries.

Out of Hightower, Butler, Collins and Jones, Jones was bottom of my list to keep and you'll see that in my previous posts. I was hoping to keep Hightower, Butler and Collins, but then I remembered the shocking AFC title game Collins had. I was as guilty as any of loving Collins's athleticism, but it went missing in the AFC title game and I've no doubt that didn't go down too well with Bill.

All of the above reads like some of the inside crap the media have been feeding us when realistically none of know how far back Bill started to lose interest in him. And he was more than just Athletic but again your opinion.

Is that the kind of fan who has continually criticised the defense and the priority it always gets, criticised the poor investment in the O line and criticised the lack of elite WR toys for Brady down the years? Ya that's me, guilty as charged, I'm a real homer alright.

No the kind of fan who all of a sudden throws players under the bus when Bill ships them.

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 08:22PM

eagle eye wrote: »

As I said earlier, something obviously went wrong somewhere and Collins had to go. This had nothing to do with his performances imo, it was something else and we most likely will never know what.

All this pointing out a couple of poor games that Collins had are going to get us nowhere. The guy has moved on and we have to too.

This over and back stuff is ruining the thread imo.

Just because you don't want to discuss it anymore doesn't mean it is ruining the thread but we are all guilty of it but isn't that what keeps us going in here? To discuss current issues and past issues and everything Patriots? Bigger fool me if not.

JaMarcusHustle · 30-11-2016 08:27PM

Now the narrative is that Jamie Collins cost us a Super Bowl. Not one criticism of Collins here while he was a Patriot, but now that he's gone, he's the reason we didn't win the Super Bowl last year.

Jesus Christ, no wonder our fans have such a bad rep on here. What poisonous, nonsensical drivel that is.

eagle eye · 30-11-2016 08:34PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Just because you don't want to discuss it anymore doesn't mean it is ruining the thread but we are all guilty of it but isn't that what keeps us going in here? To discuss current issues and past issues and everything Patriots? Bigger fool me if not.

There is no chat about Gronk and his current injury, not chat about Brady and his chances of NFL MVP despite being suspended for four games. No chat about Blount or the OL. All that is being talked about here is a former player.

The man is gone from New England, nobody needs to attack him now and nobody needs to defend him either. It's just going over and back and over and back. Why can't everybody just say their piece about it and move on?

TOss Sweep · 30-11-2016 09:34PM

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no chat about Gronk and his current injury, not chat about Brady and his chances of NFL MVP despite being suspended for four games. No chat about Blount or the OL. All that is being talked about here is a former player.

Well why don't you start the dialogue then? Nothing stopping you putting in a post opening the dialogue to all of the above.

The man is gone from New England, nobody needs to attack him now and nobody needs to defend him either. It's just going over and back and over and back. Why can't everybody just say their piece about it and move on?

Same question is why don't you start conversations about the other stuff you mentioned. Why as humans do we do anything. There is no answer. People will discuss what they want to discuss you don't have to join in and there is nothing stopping you create another conversation about anything you want to discuss as others will most likely join in.

eagle eye · 01-12-2016 01:29PM

Well let's start with Brady then. He has been as good, if not better than, ever since his four week suspension. He is certainly in the running for NFL MVP but I just feel with it looking like at least one of Matt Ryan and Drew Brees on for a 5,000 yard season that it's likely one of those two will win it. I think Ryan might be the one as he hasn't got one and is well respected.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 01-12-2016 02:00PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well let's start with Brady then. He has been as good, if not better than, ever since his four week suspension. He is certainly in the running for NFL MVP but I just feel with it looking like at least one of Matt Ryan and Drew Brees on for a 5,000 yard season that it's likely one of those two will win it. I think Ryan might be the one as he hasn't got one and is well respected.

Surely Eliott is the front runner

paulie21 · 01-12-2016 06:42PM

Gronk to have back surgery out for several weeks. Just fooking brilliant

JaMarcusHustle · 01-12-2016 06:44PM

Gronk an injury concern for the playoffs? Surely that can't be true :rolleyes:

TOss Sweep · 01-12-2016 06:49PM

paulie21 wrote: »

Gronk to have back surgery out for several weeks. Just fooking brilliant

Done for the season they are saying.

Hard to see a future in New England or the NFL for Gronk if he cant go a full season anymore. Guy is just too injury prone.

TOss Sweep · 01-12-2016 06:51PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Surely Eliott is the front runner

They will give Elliot rookie of the year and give a QB MVP

JaMarcusHustle · 01-12-2016 06:51PM

We all know this season is heading towards a Super Bowl loss to the Giants anyway.

me89 · 01-12-2016 07:02PM

That's 3 of his last 5 seasons ended by injury FFS.

At least this season we have Bennett

eagle eye · 01-12-2016 07:45PM

So they are saying that it's several weeks with a suggestion that he might not be back until 'deep into the playoffs' whatever that means as there will most likely only be three games.

Now is when it would be really nice if we had held onto AJ Derby. Lengel is an interesting one too and we'll no doubt get to see a bit of him now.

TOss Sweep · 01-12-2016 07:47PM

eagle eye wrote: »

So they are saying that it's several weeks with a suggestion that he might not be back until 'deep into the playoffs' whatever that means as there will most likely only be three games.

Now is when it would be really nice if we had held onto AJ Derby. Lengel is an interesting one too and we'll no doubt get to see a bit of him now.

The latest report says 8 weeks. But it depends on what report you read. I am no doctor but back surgery this late into the season means he is done. Want to be taking HGH to be back to 100% even in the playoffs.

eagle eye · 01-12-2016 07:59PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

The latest report says 8 weeks. But it depends on what report you read. I am no doctor but back surgery this late into the season means he is done. Want to be taking HGH to be back to 100% even in the playoffs.

If we hold onto the HFA then we have seven weeks before our first playoff game. I wouldn't be giving up hope on having him for the playoffs.

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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