New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

Son Of A Vidic

Randall Victorious Pentagon wrote: »

That's being very generous to our porous OL that night. The biggest reason we didn't get to the SB.

That's true but then again, they're like that most years. If Brady wasn't so quick with his release and decision making, he'd probably have died years ago.

Son Of A Vidic

Embarrassing, the Pats defense making the non-Jets offense look good.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Embarrassing, the Pats defense making the non-Jets offense look good.

Secondary isn't good. But again, no pass rush. Has Fitz even been touched?

Son Of A Vidic

Randall Victorious Pentagon wrote: »

Secondary isn't good. But again, no pass rush. Has Fitz even been touched?

Nope, don't think so.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

Nope, don't think so.

Finally, with 5:21 left in the game we get to him and force intentional grounding.
Almost 55mins of no pressure on the opposition QB; can't win like that in the playoffs.

paulie21

Ghost would need to be cut if he fecks up this

Edit: Don't need to worry

j8wk2feszrnpao

paulie21 wrote: »

Ghost would need to be cut if he fecks up this

Edit: Don't need to worry

Was worried. Took way to long to get QB pressure. But two in the last 5mins were huge!

Son Of A Vidic

Randall Victorious Pentagon wrote: »

Was worried. Took way to long to get QB pressure. But two in the last 5mins were huge!

And very, very, long overdue. Great hustling by Long on the last turnover.

ScrubsfanChris

Why was the extra 2 pointer taken away? I missed it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Why was the extra 2 pointer taken away? I missed it.

Foot out of bounds before the ball crossed.

Son Of A Vidic

As usual, Brady delivering when it matters. Now joint all time leader with Manning for most career wins (200), but Manning has 36 mores games played under his belt before he got to that number.

AbusesToilets

This D is going to put me in an early grave.

TOss Sweep

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

The same Collins who gave up 2 bad TD's against a mediocre player, in the AFC title game against the Broncos last January and most likely cost us a 5th Superbowl in the process.

Oh yeah because Collins was the reason we lost that game. Never mind the fact Von Miller had his way with the Oline and Brady. Our defense lived on the field that night.

Collins is a clear loss right now and we can pretend things were as poor with him there but we all know deep down they were not. Brandon Marshall spent the night sitting across the middle of the field and most of his catches exploited the middle and the lack of linebacker and safety help. Our secondary are piss poor but now our pass defense in our front 7 is piss poor also.

j8wk2feszrnpao

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Collins is a clear loss right now and we can pretend things were as poor with him there but we all know deep down they were not. Brandon Marshall spent the night sitting across the middle of the field and most of his catches exploited the middle and the lack of linebacker and safety help. Our secondary are piss poor but now our pass defense in our front 7 is piss poor also.

I kinda do think they were as bad (or almost as bad) with him. The difference with Collins is that he has the talent to come good and become a reason why we could win in the playoffs. I don't think those that replaced him have the required talent to turn it around.
From what I've seen of him in Cleveland (very limited) he isn't doing much there either (although the criticism he received on the Beckham TD seemed harsh).

The pass rush is awful. 55mins to get to Fitzpatrick and apply some pressure. And when we're dropping players into coverage, even with 8 back, we can't cover.

I really think we need to get Butler signed up. He hasn't been great this season, but he's been on the oppositions best receiver, and I dread to think how bad we'd be if we didn't have Butler.

eagle eye

Everybody was poor last night until clutch Brady turned up late in the fourth quarter and then the D turned up right at the end of the game.

Again though we held an offense to just below their average scoring per game.As long as they can keep doing that we'll be fine. I don't see any change in this D without Collins.

Raiders are keeping the pressure on for HFA in the playoffs so we need to keep winning.

Son Of A Vidic

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Oh yeah because Collins was the reason we lost that game. Never mind the fact Von Miller had his way with the Oline and Brady. Our defense lived on the field that night.

Collins is a clear loss right now and we can pretend things were as poor with him there but we all know deep down they were not. Brandon Marshall spent the night sitting across the middle of the field and most of his catches exploited the middle and the lack of linebacker and safety help. Our secondary are piss poor but now our pass defense in our front 7 is piss poor also.

Well yes and it's a mathematical fact because he did give up two TD's to a JAG of a player on offense, in a game we lost by two points. That's not something a 'stud' player does on defense and Collins did it twice last January against Owen Daniels. Think about that for a minute - Owen Daniels. It was shocking poor play from Collins and it cost us two points. Me included, I think we were all guilty of overlooking that one after the AFC title game. Probably because we were in awe of Collins athleticism, athleticism that did fúck all to stop Owen Daniels scoring his two TD's in a game we lost by two points. And I'm not seeing any significant drop off in performance in our D, since Collins was moved on and it's still performing with the same level of mediocrity afaic. Collins is gone and I'm over it, mainly because his loss and that of Jones has been pretty much negligible.

Speaking off the O line, that's been shyte for some years now and it's mainly through neglect and higher draft picks/moves always going to the defense. Pot Roast destroyed our interior line back in the 2013 AFC title game. So having a shyte O line is nothing new to us and Brady has had to deal with it for most of his career. But we continue to invest in a defense that hasn't lived up to expectations for a long time. We wouldn't even pay Vereen that extra 1/2 million dollars per year to keep him a Pat, a guy who had 11 catches in the Superbowl and was there for Brady when he really need him. Meanwhile, we píssed away money and over paid McCourty last year.

I'll back Bill on the players he has shipped out unexpectedly, but I'll criticise him for constantly investing in high pick defensive players, players who have continually underwhelmed. The Broncos built a very good defense over several years. Yet we've been investing and tinkering with our D long before them and we''re still don't have a very good defense. For all the effort, it would be very nice to a have a very good defense, a defense that can step up and win games when all Brady's targets are badly gimped and banged up in AFC title games. Unfortunately we still don't have that defense now and we certainly didn't have it when Collins was in the team.

BizzyC

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I'll back Bill on the players he has shipped out unexpectedly, but I'll criticise him for constantly investing in high pick defensive players, players who have continually underwhelmed. The Broncos built a very good defense over several years. Yet we've been investing and tinkering with our D long before them and we''re still don't have a very good defense. For all the effort, it would be very nice to a have a very good defense, a defense that can step up and win games when all Brady's targets are badly gimped and banged up in AFC title games. Unfortunately we still don't have that defense now and we certainly didn't have it when Collins was in the team.

Underwhelming high-draft defensive players?

Guys like Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, McCourty, Wilson, Collins were all underwhelming?
During the same period we've drafted Light, Mankins, Vollmer, Solder for the O-Line.
(only looking at top 2 picks).

I think BB does a decent job of getting defensive talent in the draft, I think the real problem lies in where we spend it which is an even spread.
Most of the top D's in the league will either have a phenomenal secondary, or a front 7 that can dominate in pressure.
We split our money evenly between the two and end up with mediocrity on both fronts.

If we want a good D, we need to spend to keep one.

We got Revis and Browner cheap, and we were able to run a much tighter D as a result.
But we wont pay to keep anyone of that caliber around, so we go back to mediocrity a year later.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I'm over it, mainly because his loss and that of Jones has been pretty much negligible.

I'm not arguing about Collins against Daniels, but he was a playmaker a number of times for us. We've not getting that outside of Hightower from our current linebackers.
I didn't have a problem with letting Jones go, he probably would be at the 9-10 sacks mark at this stage (without the consistent QB pressure). But the guys I hoped would match his production have not turned up. We have 22 sacks in our 11 games (5 in one game against SF).

We haven't given up a ton of pts so far, but we must be down in the lower half on every other category (and we've had a generous schedule given the woes of the NFC West this year). We haven't had any big injuries on the defense either, so this might be as good as it gets for us.

me89

The great thing about Collins was out of nowhere he could make a game changing play, we don't have that anymore.

He was a freak of an athlete and how anyone things we are not worse without him is beyond me.

Hazys

Before people overplay how much a difference Jamie Collins would make, take a look at his effort on this play: https://mobile.twitter.com/SgtFootball/status/802957867968040961

That shiit wouldn't stand on a BB coached team

TOss Sweep

Hazys wrote: »

Before people overplay how much a difference Jamie Collins would make, take a look at his effort on this play: https://mobile.twitter.com/SgtFootball/status/802957867968040961

That shiit wouldn't stand on a BB coached team

To be fair to him he didn't want to go to the Browns and the Browns are sh1t. He wont be with them next year and I guarantee you someone will pay him.

Still cracks me up that people are still saying our defense is no different without Collins. But I am going to leave the discussion there as it will be pointless even debating it at this point.

eagle eye

If he is dogging it then he won't get a big payday from anybody.

Hazys

eagle eye wrote: »

If he is dogging it then he won't get a big payday from anybody.

Don't be surprised how stupid some teams are :pac:

TOss Sweep

eagle eye wrote: »

If he is dogging it then he won't get a big payday from anybody.

haha really? Plenty of teams have given guys with little or no talent big contracts and you feel Collins wont get his? haha sure. The guy still has talent and someone will give him what he wants and he will be back to his full talent.

Good old Patriot way. BB offloads players and all of a sudden fans think he is crap or talentless or a douchebag or enter in your excuse here with the guy. Bill Belichick drafted him and liked him for a long time and has been quoted saying the guy has real talent. But of course now he is no good because we send him packing. Still makes me laugh though how many Pats fans have turned on Collins. Hilarious at best. Comedy gold really.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Hazys wrote: »

Don't be surprised how stupid some teams are :pac:

Maybe that team will be us?
A view of losing football and watching the playoffs from home might change Collins' attitude towards Bill (assuming he wasn't following the script).
And us losing in the playoffs might change Bills opinion on Collins and need a talent like him.

Extremely unlikely
Bill had moved on. Collins will get a payday from someone. If the Browns don't sign him, then they just wasted a draft pick during a dead season,

eagle eye

TOss Sweep wrote: »

haha really? Plenty of teams have given guys with little or no talent big contracts and you feel Collins wont get his? haha sure. The guy still has talent and someone will give him what he wants and he will be back to his full talent.

Good old Patriot way. BB offloads players and all of a sudden fans think he is crap or talentless or a douchebag or enter in your excuse here with the guy. Bill Belichick drafted him and liked him for a long time and has been quoted saying the guy has real talent. But of course now he is no good because we send him packing. Still makes me laugh though how many Pats fans have turned on Collins. Hilarious at best. Comedy gold really.

I'd said that if he is dogging it that he won't get big money and you turn my comment into the above?

When did I say he has no talent? When did I say he was crap?

I am just saying that if he is giving up on plays like the one that was posted that he won't get a big contract.

If you were a coach and you seen a guy do that a couple of times what would you think? I know I wouldn't want him near my team. If it's a once off thing that is ok but if he does it a couple of times then there are question marks for sure.

TOss Sweep

I was lazy quoting just you but I was generalising the negativity against Collins to all of those against him.

He played 1 bad game this season and none of us know what went on with him but yet many have rubbished him over being traded. Its that simple. Many seem to think they know what went on between him and Bill but realistically no one knows. All anyone can do is speculate about a guy who seemed disgruntled.

paulie21

Cannon 5 year extension worth 32.5 million

TOss Sweep

See according to Bart Scott the Pats will offload Gronk at some point because apparently this is like the Collins and Jones situations. He is somewhat right because at some it will happen but right now even with missing games he still is extremely productive with only 25 catches has 540 yds and is 25 yd per reception. The day that production ends and we don't need him is the day we look to trade him. Good to see Scott's hatred for the Patriots shine through.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out Bart Scott isn’t a fan of Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots. So, keep that in mind when you read this scorcher of a hot take Scott dropped Monday on CBS Sports Radio’s “The D.A. Show” involving Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski. “Gronk’s on his way out (of New England),” the former New York Jets linebacker told host Damon Amendolara. “Because of injuries, and they don’t stick with you when they see you slipping.

When you have a big man that starts having back problems — he’s only in his seventh year, and he has two years remaining. And guess what? They already brought in his replacement and they can get him for cheaper.” That’s right: Scott believes the Patriots are ready to cut ties with Gronkowski, insisting they already have a serviceable tight end in Martellus Bennett, who’s actually two years older than the 27-year-old All-Pro. “Don’t matter. Less wear and tear on the body,” Scott said of Bennett. “Listen, we had some great players in basketball.

When did you know it was over with Larry Bird? When he would go to the sideline and put that hot pack on his back.” Gronkowski left Sunday’s game against the Jets with a back injury and already has missed three of New England’s 11 games this season. He’s still the NFL’s best tight end when healthy, though, leading all qualified tight ends with 21.6 yards per catch this season.

But don’t tell that to Scott, who predicts Belichick will give Gronk the same treatment he gave Jamie Collins and Chandler Jones. “We talk about knee injuries, back injuries, elbow brace forever,” Scott said, trailing off. “Listen, man, you think Bill Belichick (is) going to stick with you? Negative. He’s not in the foxhole with you.”

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

Underwhelming high-draft defensive players?
Guys like Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo, Hightower, McCourty, Wilson, Collins were all underwhelming?

I'm not sure why you are including Collins in the group, because those players service for the franchise spoke for itself along with their consistency down through the years. For me, Collins didn't even come close to the likes of Seymour, Wilfork or Mayo and the only defensive player moved on that really pissed me off during the Belichick era was Seymour. Losing Seymour still bugs me to this day, watching Wilfork in a Texans jersey makes me sad but losing Collins? I was over it after a couple of hours. When I spoke of underwhelming draft picks, I was talking about the likes of Meriweather and the gimped Easley, then throw in Jones and Collins and that's four 1st round defensive draft picks that were pretty much wasted. Because none of them turned into long term pillars of the franchise, that you'd like a 1st round pick to be. Would have been nice if one of those picks had of gone to giving Brady a 1st round toy for a change. Injury forced Mayo to retire and money made Vince move on and we've had less talk about those two greats and what they did for the franchise, than we had about Collins and that for me is laughable. Collin is gone and I'm onto The Rams