Where will Dublin's public transport be 10 years from now

Pawwed Rig · 24-11-2016 3:49pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

LUAS is every 2-3 minutes in the morning, not 10-15 minutes. For those who live near a Park and Ride and work in town, it is a no brainer to take the LUAS and avoid the horrible gridlock that makes this such an uncomfortable city to move around.

Luas is not a great mode of transport. It is slow, uncomfortable and has anti social issues thrown in. Given the option I would cycle or get a scooter before Luas. Would go with Luas before the bus though.

Chivito550 · 24-11-2016 3:59pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Luas is not a great mode of transport. It is slow, uncomfortable and has anti social issues thrown in. Given the option I would cycle or get a scooter before Luas. Would go with Luas before the bus though.

By European standards it is not great. By Irish standards it is. Certainly far quicker at rush hour than driving or taking a bus.

Roadhawk · 24-11-2016 4:33pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

LUAS is every 2-3 minutes in the morning, not 10-15 minutes.

Their site says different...other than Peak times at Belgard being 3-5 mins most of the other waiting times are as i mentioned 10-15mins...

https://www.luas.ie/red-line-frequency.html

Chivito550 wrote: »

For those who live near a Park and Ride and work in town, it is a no brainer to take the LUAS and avoid the horrible gridlock that makes this such an uncomfortable city to move around.

If a Luas passed my door id probably use it for most city trips.

Chivito550 · 24-11-2016 4:40pm

Roadhawk wrote: »

Their site says different...other than Peak times at Belgard being 3-5 mins most of the other waiting times are as i mentioned 10-15mins...

https://www.luas.ie/red-line-frequency.html

If a Luas passed my door id probably use it for most city trips.

That's only going from Saggart or Tallaght. Once the 2 join up the frequency is obviously double that. Also I'd be amazed if frequency is only 9-10 minutes at Tallaght in the morning. I get the LUAS from Ballaly and when I arrive at the stop I always see something like the following:

2 mins
3 mins
6 mins
7 mins

That kind of frequency.

Roadhawk · 24-11-2016 4:51pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

That's only going from Saggart or Tallaght. Once the 2 join up the frequency is obviously double that. Also I'd be amazed if frequency is only 9-10 minutes at Tallaght in the morning. I get the LUAS from Ballaly and when I arrive at the stop I always see something like the following:

2 mins
3 mins
6 mins
7 mins

That kind of frequency.

They're clearly improving on their stats

hytrogen · 24-11-2016 5:28pm

Luas green line extended further north and south, luas blue line from Blanchardstown interconnecting via dame street to Pearce station.
Trinity college & Christ church cathedral finally get burrowed under, stalled by the discovery of ancient manuscripts, bones & other goolish naughties Trinners & the church wiped under the carpet centuries ago and education in this country collapses as a result of the hypocrisies unearthed! Bike scheme expanded to compensate for no car zone between the canals and a train line finally makes it to an airport on this island..
Laughs all the way to the bank

Charles Babbage · 28-11-2016 1:18am

It isn't rocket science.
Two expensive but vital projects are needed, DART underground and quadrupling track from Connolly to Howth Junction.
Just get on with it.

Vic_08 · 28-11-2016 11:49pm

hytrogen wrote: »

and a train line finally makes it to an airport on this island..

My money is on Knock, Dublin gets new runway, West gets GLUAS extended to Knock via WRC to appease the "Dublin gets everything" moaners. Journey time of 2hrs but who cares, they want it to have, not to use.

XPS_Zero · 29-11-2016 12:02am

Vic_08 wrote: »

My money is on Knock, Dublin gets new runway, West gets GLUAS extended to Knock via WRC to appease the "Dublin gets everything" moaners. Journey time of 2hrs but who cares, they want it to have, not to use.

Have we not pis@d enough money away on low / no population density areas giving them projects like WRC and Trains when there's basically no demand based on local politics and this stupid irrational chip on their shoulder about Diblin

XPS_Zero · 29-11-2016 2:47am

Deedsie wrote: »

Oh ya cause absolutely no one from Dublin has a chip on their shoulder about rural Ireland. Until Dublin based governments loosen the purse strings and fund the M20 I dont think it's far off to accuse them of sabotaging any hope for the west of Ireland to be able compete with the East.

It's not Dublin needs infrastructural investment or rural areas that needs infrastructural investment. Ireland needs infrastructural investment. One country, one people, one transport network.

There's no such thing as a Dublin based govt
•The Taoiseach not from Dublin
•Most TDs are not from Dublin
•Most Senators are not from Dublin
•Many ministers are not from Dublin
•The most likely replacement Taoiseach from FF is from Cork and his two possible coalition partners in a future govt are from Wexford and Louth

The govt works in Dublin but visits areas countrywide all the time. TDs and Senators spend just 3 days a week in Dublin as that's when the Senate and Dail sit (not in session at all most of the year) the rest of the time they're back in their constituency

Yes Ireland needs infrastructure but it has to be put where we get the most bang for our buck and in a contest between upgrading the Ballybrophy line or building a Cork or Galway Luas when the possible passenger numbers are lower than just one major Dublin suburb and building DART Underground or metro it's no brainier
Building them = economic stimulus + more business development which = more tax revenue for things like broadband in other cities it's not Dublin gains country looses

The attitude I refer to is the idea that outside Dublin gets screwed while Dublin gets everything reality simply does not reflect this. A capital city geographically close to our trade markets and political links with short transport links, more effecent public transport and an existing dense network of utilities they can plug into will always attract more business

We can move western cities from a 1 to a 5/6 but expecting them to pack a 10 and mirror the capital is a fantasy

Gonzo · 29-11-2016 3:09am

By 2026 I expect transport in Dublin to be identical to what it is today. Only difference is the luas should hopefully connect by then and M50 will be way more overcrowded than it is today. Dublin Airport will still be served by only buses and taxi's for public transport.

gary0345 · 29-11-2016 3:50am

A train service from the Dublin Airport, to the city is really needed. It's a disgrace that tourists have to cart their luggage on a packed bus or pay mad money for a taxi. Dublin only has the one airport and it's the counties largest airport where obviously enough most of its tourism flies in to. Maybe this has turned people away from coming here in the last.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was told that not a single new train track has been been built in this country since the English left. excluding tram tracks and the fixing of existing tracks. Are we that far behind?

On a more positive note. I have been using Dublin bus for a good few years now and I think it runs pretty well. It generally runs on time and the RT on the app and on the screens at the bus stops are great. It covers a lot of ground so you can get almost anywhere In Dublin with two buses.

vg88 · 29-11-2016 9:13am

By 2026 IMO:

A new luas line is announced and is currently/ planning to be built.

Dublin Airport Hub situation for transport will reach a critical level due to passengers loads being plus 35 million and the metro (the one planned anyway) will go ahead with massive DAA involvement pushing for it (With support from airlines) seeing traffic at Dublin airport becoming impractical. A third terminal will be almost finished at the time.

Irish rail will extend the dart up to Gormanston or Drogedha. Another line from Clongriffen will be in place or planned to be built to the airport.

DB, maybe new buses that actually use the doors? Will be cashless. Apart from that can't see much of a change in DB.

Am I too hopeful?

Pawwed Rig · 29-11-2016 9:29am

moloner4 wrote: »

Am I too hopeful?

In a word Yes.
Unless something is already in the planning stages with a clear plan ahead it will not be completed within 10 years. Exception where it is private industry driving it rather than state.

Idbatterim · 29-11-2016 9:48am

In terms of the airport. It will hit 28,000,000 this year over 30 next and when the new runway opens that will deliver a further good chimck in passenger figures. I reckon it will be 40 million plus before any rail link is built out there.

If we have the rugby World Cup here and there is still no rail link, which there won't be, it's a total and utter disgrace!

hytrogen · 29-11-2016 2:25pm

Deedsie wrote:

It's not Dublin needs infrastructural investment or rural areas that needs infrastructural investment. Ireland needs infrastructural investment. One country, one people, one transport network.

**AH worthy comment warning**
That's why they built the M50 in a ring fort to keep the sheep shaggers out :P

We all know the polla-chickens love to kick the awkward bucket down the road but WOT, knocklink & Dublin airlink (either dart underground, Luas or overground to malahide: there's your three quotes

) are all easily achievable in the timeframe needed, definitely because the RWC bid is being put in and we are gaining on the international financial foothold in terms of london city looking at Ireland to divest into now with Brexit. It's getting people to take their fingers & wallets out to cough up the shillings is an other..

end of the road · 29-11-2016 4:15pm

XPS_Zero wrote: »

There's no such thing as a Dublin based govt
•The Taoiseach not from Dublin
•Most TDs are not from Dublin
•Most Senators are not from Dublin
•Many ministers are not from Dublin
•The most likely replacement Taoiseach from FF is from Cork and his two possible coalition partners in a future govt are from Wexford and Louth

The govt works in Dublin but visits areas countrywide all the time. TDs and Senators spend just 3 days a week in Dublin as that's when the Senate and Dail sit (not in session at all most of the year) the rest of the time they're back in their constituency

Yes Ireland needs infrastructure but it has to be put where we get the most bang for our buck and in a contest between upgrading the Ballybrophy line or building a Cork or Galway Luas when the possible passenger numbers are lower than just one major Dublin suburb and building DART Underground or metro it's no brainier
Building them = economic stimulus + more business development which = more tax revenue for things like broadband in other cities it's not Dublin gains country looses

The attitude I refer to is the idea that outside Dublin gets screwed while Dublin gets everything reality simply does not reflect this. A capital city geographically close to our trade markets and political links with short transport links, more effecent public transport and an existing dense network of utilities they can plug into will always attract more business

We can move western cities from a 1 to a 5/6 but expecting them to pack a 10 and mirror the capital is a fantasy

here are a couple of facts. facts that deal in reality rather then soundbites.

1. the us v them is only something perpetuated by politicians and believed by a small few to be representative of most people. it doesn't actually exist in reality for the vast majority of people.
2. most people are reasonable and are fine with dublin getting what it needs. all they ask for is not to be deprived and left behind, after all they pay taxes as well.
now i can't force you to believe the reality, but realistically if you actually thought about things more you would realise that your soundbites actually don't reflect reality for anyone bar the politicians who perpetuate the us v them nonsense and the small few who believe it to be representative of many or most when it isn't.

end of the road · 29-11-2016 4:41pm

hmmm wrote: »

The DB "pay parity with LUAS" strike of 2017 will have ended with a Varadkar government closing Dublin Bus and instructing the NTA to tender for private operators on city services. After significant disruption and a wildcat Irish Rail strike, Dubliners will welcome the new services run to a strict SLA

in 2018 however, after people realise they were lied to, a huge fare rise was implemented and a almost city wide strike happened due to staff across all companies looking for equal pay and conditions, a cry of renationalise it again was so loud, it could be heard in australia.

hmmm wrote: »

one of the private operators will lose their franchise on a route because their drivers refuse to operate the middle doors.

however, quite surprisingly the same company a couple of years later end up winning multiple former franchises, as the NTA decide it's cheeper to bring multiple routes under 1 operator rather then 1 operator per route as they had been doing.

in all seriousness though, no company would lose their franchise unless it was for something extremely serious. most likely financial reasons. as that sort of thing wouldn't happen in ireland or britain unless it was something extremely serious such as that.

end of the road · 29-11-2016 4:44pm

now, where do i think public transport will be in 10 years? i know this is about dublin but i may as well get it in regardless.

rail. well, CIE and government will have got their wish and all bar dart and maybe kildare/maynooth at a stretch will be gone. they will even close the east cork branch just to finish the job they started in cork all those years ago with west cork. the NTA won't give a damn about the users and the dart infrastructure will creak even more with more trains, huge overcrowding and no plans to actually deal with the issue from government. they're will even be a campaign to close dart down which will be very vocal.

busses. they're will probably be a few to a lot of tendered routes but like the railway, the NTA will be a weak regulator who won't stand up for the user of those routes. the companies will also be blamed for things that aren't of their control or making as the NTA decide more cost cutting must take place effecting various aspects.

i love doom and gloom me. but i wouldn't be surprised if some bit of that comes true.

Zebra3 · 29-11-2016 7:02pm

gary0345 wrote: »

Dublin only has the one airport and it's the counties largest airport

Never a truer word said!!! :pac:

Boulevardier · 29-11-2016 7:04pm

NTA + Rosser = Disaster.

ligerdub · 29-11-2016 7:50pm

I think a large part of the problem now is that so many people insist on driving to work when there is really no need for them to do so.

I can understand this for people going on the M50 as most of those places are not feasible via public transport from most towns near an exit on the M50, and hence it has become a pseudo-car-park. This is not an acceptable situation, and is made worse by the fact that Sandyford (one of the most significant towns of employment outside of Dublin city) is loaded with bottlenecks and unnecessary traffic lights. If they could square that circle it would make a huge difference......they won't though!

The Luas is a great facility for anyone lucky enough to live near a stop, but is just too slow, particularly around the city. South Dublin is the most well served place for PT out of anywhere in the country, Dart, Luas, excellent bus corridors, and decent motorways, so it seems a massive share of the resources has been granted to the most wealthy areas.......and they still drive in!

There are certain parts of Dublin where it's luck of the draw. I recall leaving from Dame St towards Terenure about a year ago, and it took around an hour.....a journey of only about 3 miles! I would have been quicker walking. I'd have found that very frustrating to do that every day. Mostly the problem seems more so about the traffic rather than the frequency of the journeys.

hytrogen · 29-11-2016 7:51pm

Zebra3 wrote:

Never a truer word said!!!

Baldonnel was looked at some years ago before they built T2. It's a good site too

Irish Steve · 30-11-2016 11:40am

hytrogen wrote: »

Baldonnel was looked at some years ago before they built T2. It's a good site too

No, for a number of reasons, Baldonnel is a BAD site for a commercial airport. The approach to the main runway for normal winds is over highly populated areas, and there's no "safety zone" in the way that there are for Dublin Airport.

Baldonnel is OK for military use, and it would have been acceptable for business jet operations, but there is no way that it is a suitable alternative to Dublin, as there are also issues with the normal approach path to Dublin and Baldonnel both using the same airspace, so it's not possible to have a flight in instrument flying conditions making an approach to Dublin and another making an approach to Baldonnel at the same time.

Negative_G · 30-11-2016 9:30pm

Irish Steve wrote: »

as there are also issues with the normal approach path to Dublin and Baldonnel both using the same airspace, so it's not possible to have a flight in instrument flying conditions making an approach to Dublin and another making an approach to Baldonnel at the same time.

Not sure that bit is entirely true. I have often heard and seen IRL258 conducting a VOR/DME to 29 to Baldonnel while 28 is active.

fly_agaric · 01-12-2016 12:31am

end of the road wrote: »

here are a couple of facts. facts that deal in reality rather then soundbites.

1. the us v them is only something perpetuated by politicians and believed by a small few to be representative of most people. it doesn't actually exist in reality for the vast majority of people.
2. most people are reasonable and are fine with dublin getting what it needs. all they ask for is not to be deprived and left behind, after all they pay taxes as well.
now i can't force you to believe the reality, but realistically if you actually thought about things more you would realise that your soundbites actually don't reflect reality for anyone bar the politicians who perpetuate the us v them nonsense and the small few who believe it to be representative of many or most when it isn't.

Suppose this is straying off topic but it is one of issues at the root of why there will be (imo) little progress in Dublin's public transport over the next decade.

I would like to believe what you wrote but it does raise the question of why many rural politicians (esp independents I would think) push that narrative?

Politicians are like sharks with blood when it comes to sniffing out a vote. There must be a decent number of preferences from somewhere in pushing out the old bullshíte your refer to about Dublin!

Irish Steve · 01-12-2016 12:41am

VOR/DME to 29 is not the one I was thinking of, it's been a while since I was actively flying in the area, I think the issue used to be when 23 was being used at Baldonnel, and 28 at Dublin, which caused a conflct where the profiles crossed. Just looking at the (limited) information for Baldonnel, it would appear that the only ILS is on Runway 11, with nothing on either 29 or 23, which seems strange.

I suspect that the issues were with strong winds requiring 23 to be used, as 29 is the longer of the 2 runways. I do know it was a factor that got mentioned when Ryanair were trying to get the Government to open Baldonnel up to them, and given that it was back when Ryanair still had the 200's, the howls of protest would have been massive.

Idbatterim · 01-12-2016 12:55am

some people may well prefer baldonnel, I would , flights to uk like the london airports and manchester etc could work from there, maybe edinburgh too and other very popular european destinations...

devnull · 01-12-2016 9:11am

Indeed, lets build an airport there because the southsiders have to go ALL THE WAY to Dublin Airport and that cannot possibly be allowed because it's the result of a poor public transport system.

Meanwhile vast swathes of the northside have buses, buses and more buses and no other option, but the southside has everything apart from an airport so naturally an airport should come first.

Another airport should be way down the list of priorities.

Wanderer78 · 01-12-2016 9:28am

Privately owned, if the powers to be have their way

Where will Dublin's public transport be 10 years from now

Comments