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Terminate Heuston trains at Docklands express bus connection to airport

  • 30-11-2016 05:26PM
    #1
    falconio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭


    Traveling up to the airport today I couldn't help but think how convenient it would be for my train to terminate in the docklands and for for me to step on to an express bus to the airport via the port tunnel. I'd estimate it would shave ~ 60 minutes off my journey (possibly more at busy times?).

    There have been many grand schemes to link the airport with the city centre (and I like most of them) but in reality if you take out the city centre part of the journey, the docklands to the airport by bus is damn quick.

    I know the sligo line junction would be difficult but otherwise what's the difference between terminating southern / western trains a few miles further on instead of at Heuston? Almost all grade separated double track all the way to the docklands with similar luas/bus walking connections to the city centre?


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Comments

  • #2
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,763 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Heuston trains cannot get to Docklands without reversing and blocking the Maynooth line for a very considerable period.

    Rebuilding the junction would be expensive - some hideous sums have been quoted here before.


  • #3
    falconio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭falconio


    Ok so that's the big blocker but in comparison to the alternatives (under or overground railway, luas extensions) would this not be at least worth examining?

    If Heuston was closed I assume the site would have a good redevelopment value and might mitigate the cost of doing this somewhat?


  • #4
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,763 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    falconio wrote: »
    Ok so that's the big blocker but in comparison to the alternatives (under or overground railway, luas extensions) would this not be at least worth examining?

    If Heuston was closed I assume the site would have a good redevelopment value and might mitigate the cost of doing this somewhat?

    Docklands is not large enough to replace Heuston. The Luas would need to be rerouted closer. The cost of flogging off Heuston would not cover this.

    The track capacity Glasnevin Junction inbound to both Docklands and Connollu is too small to take all the trains that serve Heuston and extending this would be near impossible and extremely expensive - its in cuttings or on enbankments.


  • #5
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,499 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the rail link is the only show in town really. it will cost but will be worth it and will be something useful indefinitely. dealing with the issue of glasnevin junction would be hugely expensive, but i believe it would give great benefits long term, long term being what we need to act on rather then short term like we currently do. the reality is we need to deal with anything that causes inflexibility and capacity issues on the dublin rail network and if it costs huge money so be it, it will be beneficial not just to dublin but to the railway as a whole. of course such spend on the railway won't be happening.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #6
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    not all passengers currently using Heuston are headed to the City Centre and you'd probably be inconveniencing more people that you'd be helping


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  • #7
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Traveling up to the airport today I couldn't help but think how convenient it would be for my train to terminate in the docklands and for for me to step on to an express bus to the airport via the port tunnel. I'd estimate it would shave ~ 60 minutes off my journey (possibly more at busy times?).
    is there no direct airport bus from where you are going?


  • #8
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    This is the junction as it used to be. Access from the PPT to Docklands is possible.
    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,714822,736526,11,9

    This is the same place now. The required section of track has been lifted, and the junction relaid out.
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3666988,-6.2747067,485m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

    The land is still there... I'm sure it's do-able.


  • #9
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Seems hard to justify when there is a LUAS that links even better than the Docklands, between Heuston and the Airport bus.

    I'm aware of the problems with capacity and speed of the LUAS.

    I'd prefer the money was spent on the Mayooth/Sligo line peak capacity. It might even be easier to to drive to the Sligo line in the first place.


  • #10
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,499 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    all of it needs doing.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #11
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    beauf wrote: »
    I'd prefer the money was spent on the Mayooth/Sligo line peak capacity. It might even be easier to to drive to the Sligo line in the first place.

    maybe this is a pie-in-the-sky notion...

    But is it practical to make double-decked railway lines?

    Quad-tracking is so sorely needed on several routes, but there's points where the land isn't available. Would it be cheaper and less hassle than CPOing land?


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  • #12
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    There's already a plan that would bring trains from the Heuston network to the Docklands where you could interchange with airport bus services, it's called DART Underground. It was fully planned and scoped and had planning permission. Can we just build that instead of re inventing the wheel?


  • #13
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Just not funded...


  • #14
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,835 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    MrMorooka wrote: »
    There's already a plan that would bring trains from the Heuston network to the Docklands where you could interchange with airport bus services, it's called DART Underground. It was fully planned and scoped and had planning permission. Can we just build that instead of re inventing the wheel?

    Never a plan to bring IC trains on DU. They have spoken about possibility of running to the airport however I don't ever see it!
    ____
    The germinal idea is crazy.


  • #15
    falconio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14 ✭falconio


    Obviously having no expertise in these matters I'm not sure as to whether there's a suitable site in the docklands to relocate southern/western trains (although IE do have a lot of rails connected land there IIRC) but would some people not agree this is a better location for a main intercity rail station? Much closer to the south city center,  as close to the north city centre, luas adjacent, nearer to the Dart? 

    An underground railway taking in the airport would be fantastic,  I personally would support building an underground metro network to cover Dublin from scratch or DU. However right now there is an excellent, super fast connection from the airport to the city centre by bus via the port tunnel that compares to any european city and I guess I'm just wondering would it not be possible to harness that in a better way than we do today so people can avoid the chaotic traffic in Dublin.


  • #16
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Was an opportunity missed to build an underground rail link to the airport in the Port Tunnel alongside the road for vehicles?


  • #17
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    falconio wrote: »
    ...I'm not sure as to whether there's a suitable site in the docklands to relocate southern/western trains (although IE do have a lot of rails connected land there IIRC) but would some people not agree this is a better location for a main intercity rail station? Much closer to the south city center,  as close to the north city centre, luas adjacent, nearer to the Dart?....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DART_Underground#/media/File:DART_Underground.jpeg
    http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-airport-rail-links-1780490-Nov2014/


  • #18
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    beauf wrote: »
    Just not funded...

    No money to start digging but we'll find the cash to pay back people for water bills.


  • #19
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    No money to start digging but we'll find the cash to pay back people for water bills.

    In 2010, the estimated projected cost for DART Underground was €4 billion,


  • #20
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    beauf wrote: »
    In 2010, the estimated projected cost for DART Underground was €4 billion,

    It was. But not at all the point I'm making. When it comes to infrastructure we always cry poor mouth but today we get Exchequer returns about 200mil more than expected and without batting an eyelid we are proposing paying back IW customers.

    When the Railway order for DU was in place we could have used such cash to get it going. But we didn't. Cos we're moronic.


  • #21
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Thats a bit like using the rent money for a Ferrari brochure.


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  • #22
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    beauf wrote: »
    Thats a bit like using the rent money for a Ferrari brochure.

    It's nothing of the sort and you are clearly not getting the point.

    WE cry poor mouth all the time and forever for infrastructure.

    WE always find money for vote winning policies where we give away cash.

    These two things shouldn't happen at all.


  • #23
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    One tends not to happen with out the other.

    Good luck trying to sell the idea of billions on a DU in the middle of a housing crisis.


  • #24
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    beauf wrote: »
    One tends not to happen with out the other.

    Good luck trying to sell the idea of billions on a DU in the middle of a housing crisis.

    We couldn't sell DU when we had money and no housing crisis (well it was a crisis but of a different sort)

    DU would solve some serious housing issues in this city as well funnily enough but we're beyond help at this stage and completely devoid of any leadership or joined up thinking. I lament. But at this stage I actually don't care. I won't be living here. I'm tired of Dublin.


  • #25
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think you need the housing first.


  • #26
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    beauf wrote: »
    I think you need the housing first.

    More sprawl with no transportation links? You know, like what we've always done!

    If you build transportation links and build housing in conjunction you make places more attractive to people to live in and that decreases pressure on high demand areas like the CC and inner suburbs.

    You of course know that.

    If you can get to Heuston in ten minutes and Pearse in 20 from Kishogue as you would be able to with DU wouldn't that encourage people to live in such places?


  • #27
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    People are living in the Midlands because they cant afford Kishogue. You can't move into affordable housing that doesn't exist.

    The DU should be built. No one is going to argue it shouldn't. But I dunno how you are going to cram these extra people on trains that are already at capacity (maybe beyond that already) at peak.

    That 4 billion would built a lot of housing in the city, or near existing lines. So that people don't need to use a car or a new train to get to work. More housing would allo people to change where they live to suit work. Instead everyone is commuting from unsuitable locations.


  • #28
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    No money to start digging but we'll find the cash to pay back people for water bills.

    yeah and 225,000,000 going out this week on the welfare bonus! yet we have a third world rail system! Wont allow even medium rise building either, which would make better transport even more sustainable!


  • #29
    tabbey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    beauf wrote: »
    I think you need the housing first.

    Yes. But there are vast numbers of units in the city deliberately kept empty by the property speculators, in order to keep rents and prices at bubble levels.

    Put housing on the market at fair prices in Kishogue and elsewhere, and there would be no need for people to move out of Dublin.


  • #30
    kc56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 435 ✭✭kc56


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Never a plan to bring IC trains on DU. They have spoken about possibility of running to the airport however I don't ever see it!
    ____
    The germinal idea is crazy.

    See http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/rail-vision-2030 where such an idea is proposed.


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  • #31
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Maybe we should have a Xmas reduction in welfare and Xmas increase in taxation, bills, to fund the DU. ;)


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