How do you define someone who is Irish? (multiple choice poll)

8-10 · 29-11-2016 04:11PM

Can anybody tell me what the poll result is telling us? I'm still confused by the question, can somebody explain like I'm 5?

SharpshooterTom · 29-11-2016 04:40PM

8-10 wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what the poll result is telling us? I'm still confused by the question, can somebody explain like I'm 5?

The premise of the thread was to have an open discussion about who is or who isn't Irish. Now unfortunately what I've done is copied the thread title into the poll question so obviously it's now become a red herring and the question is confusing the f*ck out of everybody (understandably).

If I could change the poll question it would be who of the following do you consider to be Irish?

That was the intention but me putting in the is/isn't is confusing everyone. You can tell from the poll results that most people have answered it the way I wanted so the trends are correct but the exact numbers probably aren't, but for example we still have about 12% of people who don't think someone born and raised in Ireland to Irish parents is Irish so some people have interpreted it wrong.

The poll is obsolete now because it doesn't hold any real relevance due that mistake so I wouldn't read to much into it.

NoFreeGaffs · 29-11-2016 06:04PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

Strange then that I don't get half a passport, half a vote, half an education.

Did they teach you English at school? It's called a dual nationality, not a split nationality...

You were born in America to an American parent. You're half Irish and half American. Did they not teach you maths in the US?

What's it with you Americans on lecturing the natives and claiming their identity? Claiming to be as Irish/Polish/Italian as the natives. It's pathetic.

NoFreeGaffs · 29-11-2016 06:05PM

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

- Has Irish parents, grandparents etc. Great grandparents on my mother's side 100% Irish.
- Has an Irish surname. No, German last name.
- Speaks with an Irish accent. I do now.
- Someone who has spent a considerable amount of time here. Lived here 21 years
- Someone who has actively participated in Irish culture for most of their life. Not really.

I was born in and brought up in the US but, I now have both US and Irish Citizenship. My dad is from Germany and 100% German. My mom is from the UK but, her grandparents were 100% Irish. I'd consider myself American, although when asked I just say Irish to make things easy.

My wife is 100% Irish and our children were born here but have a German last name. They have lived here all their lives, gone to school here and actively participated in Irish culture, (big into GAA)
Wouldn't you consider them Irish? Because I do.

I think it really comes down to where you were born and brought up.

You're American and your kids are half Irish.

Glenster · 29-11-2016 06:11PM

There's nationality. Which is a legal thing and can generally be split.

There's ethnicity. Which is a genetic thing and depends on the ethnicity of your antecedents (and how far you're willing to go back)

And there's culturally. Which is a self defined thing, which people can agree or disagree with.

This thread is like asking;
What makes a big person? Do they have to be Tall or Fat?

bodice ripper · 29-11-2016 06:28PM

NoFreeGaffs wrote: »

You were born in America to an American parent. You're half Irish and half American. Did they not teach you maths in the US?

What's it with you Americans on lecturing the natives and claiming their identity? Claiming to be as Irish/Polish/Italian as the natives. It's pathetic.

I had a look at your other posts. Every one of them about other people's nationality and or ethnicity. You are in no position to call others pathetic.

That's as many replies as you will get from me.

PucaMama · 29-11-2016 06:58PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

Sentient life is always more valuable. You're going down a very selfish road. This is the kind of selfishness that when normalised leads to people walking by and not reporting a burglary or ignoring you being dragged down a laneway at knifepoint and not calling the police. Not a cohesive society.

Me thinking my dog is more important to myself than some internet stranger isn't going to be the downfall of mankind.

PucaMama · 29-11-2016 07:01PM

Brian? wrote: »

How heart warming.

I won't "get over it". To place the life of a pet above the life of any human being is horrible.

You realise their are people that will risk their own safety to save a complete stranger? Never mind risking a pet.

Live your life however you want, but don't lie to yourself that it's justifiable to place the life of a dog above that of a human being.

I can place anything I want above human life and I won't have to justify myself to you. My dog means more to me than a random stranger. Thats just the way it is. Again, get over it.

Galwayguy35 · 29-11-2016 07:17PM

Brian? wrote: »

Any human life is worth more than any dogs life. Is that controversial to you

Really?

Is a paedo, rapist or even a poachers life worth more than an animals?

Like hell it is.

We were the last to arrive on the earth and we have killed off more life than anything else and the sooner we become extinct the better.

Brian? · 29-11-2016 07:59PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Really?

Is a paedo, rapist or even a poachers life worth more than an animals?

Like hell it is.

We were the last to arrive on the earth and we have killed off more life than anything else and the sooner we become extinct the better.

Yes, really. In my opinion.

Brian? · 29-11-2016 08:00PM

PucaMama wrote: »

I can place anything I want above human life and I won't have to justify myself to you. My dog means more to me than a random stranger. Thats just the way it is. Again, get over it.

You can feel however you want, and I can feel that's a horrible way to feel. What am I supposed to get over?

PucaMama · 29-11-2016 08:10PM

Brian? wrote: »

You can feel however you want, and I can feel that's a horrible way to feel. What am I supposed to get over?

Yourself.

Brian? · 29-11-2016 08:14PM

PucaMama wrote: »

Yourself.

I'm the "it" I need to get over? Genuinely, I'm not taking the piss here, but what do you mean?

Boulevardier · 29-11-2016 08:15PM

I am foreign born, to Irish parents.

How about going on genetics? The Y-DNA haplogroup R1B is very common in Ireland. Perhaps possession of this type should be a prerequisite to being called Irish?

HellSquirrel · 29-11-2016 08:18PM

Boulevardier wrote: »

I am foreign born, to Irish parents.

How about going on genetics? The Y-DNA haplogroup RB2 is very common in Ireland. Perhaps possession of this type should be a prerequisite to being called Irish?

Don't look for any consensus in here! It varies all the way from "what the state says it is" to oddly specific political opinions!

The closest thing to a consensus is "I am Irish. The rest of you are only Irish at my discretion." :pac:

Btw, OP, I answered all four as all four are legitimate methods of being Irish. However I think the most important aspect is unless it's an automatic citizenship (born on Irish soil to Irish parents), it has to be -chosen- by the person in question. They might have the RIGHT to become Irish, but they have to choose to. I would be most eh at point four, since one's upbringing does a lot for what community they're most connected to, and it's not indicating that they'll ever come to the country or be interested in belonging to it. But it's a legit route.

Brian? · 29-11-2016 08:18PM

Boulevardier wrote: »

I am foreign born, to Irish parents.

How about going on genetics? The Y-DNA haplogroup RB2 is very common in Ireland. Perhaps possession of this type should be a prerequisite to being called Irish?

That's actually the sanest suggestion anyone has made on this thread.

PucaMama · 29-11-2016 08:20PM

Brian? wrote: »

I'm the "it" I need to get over? Genuinely, I'm not taking the piss here, but what do you mean?

My dog is more important to me than a stranger.

And since you would expect me to sacrifice her for a sex offender she's definitely more important than you in my eyes.

A ****ing sex offender. Lowest of the low.

Boulevardier · 29-11-2016 08:20PM

Sorry, that should have been R1B haplogroup, not RB2.

HellSquirrel · 29-11-2016 08:36PM

Main issue with genetics based on something that broad is that even if you narrow it down to R1b1b, the subclade that includes..well..most of Western Europe, also includes much of Asia. It's a very -very- common haplogroup across Eurasia.

Mind you, if it will rule out the cats and dogs that have made it into the definition of being Irish, I'm all for that as a starting point.

LordSutch · 29-11-2016 08:55PM

OK lets cut to the chase, the genetics issue is a red herring, otherwise people like (insert name) with only one Irish parent wouldn't be properly Irish, but yet they are!

May I suggest that your nationality is largely dependent on your frame of mind, your feelings, a sence of belonging, a connection to (Ireland in this case) and ideally at least one Irish parent, although that's not even a prerequisite, if for instance you are born & raised here in Ireland to Polish parents, ergo you are Irish, (or are you Polish)?

What about somebody born & raised in England (to the age of seven) to a Nigerian father & an Irish mother? is the offspring English, Nigerian or Irish?

Maybe its a personal choice/a frame of mind?

Its all very complicated, unless you declare/aquire your nationality & gain a passport.

HellSquirrel · 29-11-2016 09:48PM

That is probably the most important point, LordSutch - choosing to take the options. I have the -right- to be either a British citizen, an Irish citizen or both due to my various relevant bits of background. Given I was brought up in Ireland (actually, I did have automatic Irishhood, despite the opinions of others!, because I was born here to an Irish parent). I also have the -right- to take a British citizenship. I haven't, because I don't particularly feel British and anyway, I live in Ireland. Mind you, if someone asked me what being Irish feels like, bar a lot of potato jokes, it doesn't. It is. It's neither more important to me nor less important to me than being a European. I know, shocking.

Pherekydes · 29-11-2016 11:38PM

RobertKK wrote: »

We became the nation we are from historical immigration, that is why no one is truly 100% Irish DNA.

I'm 95% Irish, 99% chimpanzee and 50% banana.

KERSPLAT! · 30-11-2016 12:02AM

Mod

Can't believe I'm about to post this... Move on from the sex offenders and animal argument please. I don't even...

chrissb8 · 30-11-2016 03:35AM

I'd like to think I'm Irish. Parents both Irish had me in England. Came here when I was 9. I think where most of your formative years have been spent is a fair assessment to call oneself a nationality.

NoFreeGaffs · 30-11-2016 03:55AM

bodice ripper wrote: »

I had a look at your other posts. Every one of them about other people's nationality and or ethnicity. You are in no position to call others pathetic.

It's rather pathetic when Americans claim to be as Irish as the natives. You're half Irish at best. You were born in America to an American parent. It's ludicrous to claim to be as Irish as those of us born in Ireland to Irish parents.

NoFreeGaffs · 30-11-2016 03:57AM

LordSutch wrote: »

OK lets cut to the chase, the genetics issue is a red herring, otherwise people like (insert name) with only one Irish parent wouldn't be properly Irish, but yet they are!

May I suggest that your nationality is largely dependent on your frame of mind, your feelings, a sence of belonging, a connection to (Ireland in this case) and ideally at least one Irish parent, although that's not even a prerequisite, if for instance you are born & raised here in Ireland to Polish parents, ergo you are Irish, (or are you Polish)?

What about somebody born & raised in England (to the age of seven) to a Nigerian father & an Irish mother? is the offspring English, Nigerian or Irish?

Maybe its a personal choice/a frame of mind?

Its all very complicated, unless you declare/aquire your nationality & gain a passport.

Such people would be half Irish or whatever and their identity crisis would be their own issue. It's not up to Irish people to water down their own identity to accommodate them.

764dak · 30-11-2016 04:51AM

You're Irish if you're an Irish national.

Duckworth_Luas · 30-11-2016 05:09AM

NoFreeGaffs wrote: »

It's rather pathetic when Americans claim to be as Irish as the natives. You're half Irish at best. You were born in America to an American parent. It's ludicrous to claim to be as Irish as those of us born in Ireland to Irish parents.

What is your obsession with Irish-Americans? They never claim to be from Ireland, only that their ethnicity is Irish.

You need not worry though, young Americans of Irish decent don't give a $hit about their Irish heritage anymore.

They've read the Youtube comments from **** like you and decided, "these people are assholes".

HellSquirrel · 30-11-2016 09:06AM

NoFreeGaffs wrote: »

It's rather pathetic when Americans claim to be as Irish as the natives. You're half Irish at best. You were born in America to an American parent. It's ludicrous to claim to be as Irish as those of us born in Ireland to Irish parents.

Ludicrous...unless she is actually a goddam Irish citizen, through moving here and naturalising or through a claimed right of parentage.

At that point, you have no legitimate right to call her not Irish. The IRISH STATE disagrees with you on this. What -you- have is an opinion. What -it- has is the right to say who's Irish or not.

Mortpourvelo · 30-11-2016 09:55AM

HellSquirrel wrote: »

Ludicrous...unless she is actually a goddam Irish citizen, through moving here and naturalising or through a claimed right of parentage.

At that point, you have no legitimate right to call her not Irish. The IRISH STATE disagrees with you on this. What -you- have is an opinion. What -it- has is the right to say who's Irish or not.

Thank you!

Genuine conversation I had not long after moving here:

"I'm Irish"
"You don't sound it"
"Well, the Constitution says I am"
"What does that know ? You weren't born here"

I give up!!!!!

How do you define someone who is Irish? (multiple choice poll)

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