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Pope will vist Ireland in 2018(mod warning in Op)

12467…15

Comments

  • #92
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Is that why it has done as little as it can get away with to help resolve the problem?

    Can you tell me what they do in church to protect altar boys and girls, compared to be before the abuse was public knowledge?


  • #93
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    RobertKK wrote: »
    How do you know if a family member or a blood relation is not a paedophile. Paedophile don't exactly advertise to the public they abuse minors.
    Shielding. Word there being "shielding". The Catholic isn't full of hidden paedophiles. They are known to, and protected by it.


  • #94
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I think it would be fitting if Pope Francis delivers an apology on behalf of the Irish church for the pain and suffering that tens of thousands endured when the church ruled this country in all but name. For the first 4 decades of this country's existence as an independent State, Ireland was a theocracy.

    We are never going back to those times and Ireland has long since moved on. Back in 1996 I would have protested at a Papal visit given the disgusting revelations of child sexual abuse by the clergy but I now see things from a wider perspective, a broader picture.

    The Church is greatly diminished in power and that's a good thing. Francis's visit will not make one iota of difference to the inevitable repeal of the 8th Amendment. Irish people don't listen to or indeed fear the church now - we are an outward looking, sophisticated, wealthy, tolerant and cosmopolitan society now - a million miles from 1979.

    Of course people have a right to protest the Pope's visit but I think for many devout Catholics it will be an important event. I won't be going to see him. But I wouldn't begrudge others the opportunity.

    And I say this as a gay man who holds socially liberal views.


  • #95
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,911 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    How do you know if a family member or a blood relation is not a paedophile. Paedophile don't exactly advertise to the public they abuse minors.


    The church knowingly aided and abetted paedophiles. The various bishops and cardinals involved should have been prosecuted along with the paedophile priests. But that will never happen as long as there are still church apologists.


  • #96
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    seamus wrote: »
    Shielding. Word there being "shielding". The Catholic isn't full of hidden paedophiles. They are known to, and protected by it.

    You think there are no families out there who have shielded a fellow family member?


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  • #97
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,911 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Can you tell me what they do in church to protect altar boys and girls, compared to be before the abuse was public knowledge?


    so they have taken steps to prevent some further abuse? do you want a pat on the back for that?


  • #98
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,911 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You think there are no families out there who have shielded a fellow family member?


    I'm sure there are. and they should be reviled as much as the paedophiles they protect. The same way the church should be reviled for the way they protected their own paedophiles.


  • #99
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You think there are no families out there who have shielded a fellow family member?
    You are a member of an organisation which hides paedophiles.

    I am not.

    Your deflections can't ignore that bare fact.


  • #100
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    My own reaction is one of indifference, and I think that indifference is a better response than being present to protest even, but I understand that people who have suffered/been discriminated against may feel differently.


  • #101
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    The church knowingly aided and abetted paedophiles. The various bishops and cardinals involved should have been prosecuted along with the paedophile priests. But that will never happen as long as there are still church apologists.

    We had similar happen in Irish swimming.
    All of it is the same horrific crime against minors, no one is saying it was alright or the church hold no responsibility.
    The church is far bigger than simply the sexual abuse scandals, and being myopic is simply being blind to other aspects.


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  • #102
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You think there are no families out there who have shielded a fellow family member?

    This is painful stuff Robert. Nobody is stupid enough to think it's a valid argument.


  • #103
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,911 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We had similar happen in Irish swimming.
    All of it is the same horrific crime against minors, no one is saying it was alright or the church hold no responsibility.
    The church is far bigger than simply the sexual abuse scandals, and being myopic is simply being blind to other aspects.


    well at least we agree on that. Do you not think it is about time they faced up to that responsibility fully?


  • #104
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    It's funny how holy joe's say people that bring up Catholic Church members raping children are living in the past, whilst praying to some guy mentioned in a work of fiction 2,000 years ago.


  • #105
    Ted111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Ted111


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    It's funny how holy joe's say people that bring up Catholic Church members raping children are living in the past, whilst praying to some guy mentioned in a work of fiction 2,000 years ago.

    You know what other organisation often gets a mention in old victim reports.
    Hint - first word is An.


  • #106
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,309 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Is he coming to issue an official apology to the people of Ireland and bringing a big novelty cheque with him for the compensation owed by the Church?

    He's probably coming to preach about climate change.


  • #107
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    He's probably coming to preach about climate change.

    The Healy-Rae's better cover their ears


  • #108
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    seamus wrote: »
    You are a member of an organisation which hides paedophiles.

    I am not.

    Your deflections can't ignore that bare fact.

    You can live in the past where that was reality.

    Others choose to live in the present where child protection is visible in the church with Garda vetted child protection people being present with the children when the priest is alone with a child to offer protection to both the child and the priest.
    The child is given full protection as times have changed despite some here living in the past where nothing has changed.
    The priest needs protection too as there have been cases of false accusations by people who saw it as a way to receive money via compensation.

    We saw in the Ferns report how parents didn't believe children, Gardai were told and didn't act and even part of the health sector acted incorrectly.
    It is a good thing times have changed because society and too much reverence was bad. Too much trust and choosing to not believe and be blind to the abuse all made the priesthood a perfect breeding ground for paedophiles to join and to use that reverence and trust for very nefarious crimes.
    Times have changed.


  • #109
    brickmauser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭brickmauser


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    It's funny how holy joe's say people that bring up Catholic Church members raping children are living in the past, whilst praying to some guy mentioned in a work of fiction 2,000 years ago.

    Why this contempt for Jesus?
    I do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God - he genuinely believed he was because at the time people believed a gifted person was touched by the divine - but he was heroic and selfless and his teachings have inspired much of Western civilization.
    Why shouldn't he be revered?
    I would be an atheist but culturally and philosophically a Christian.
    For the life of me I cannot understand hostility toward Christ himself.


  • #110
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    brickmauser wrote: »
    Why this contempt for Jesus?
    I do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God - he genuinely believed he was because at the time people believed a gifted person was touched by the divine - but he was heroic and selfless and his teachings have inspired much of Western civilization.
    Why shouldn't he be revered?
    I would be an atheist but culturally and philosophically a Christian.
    For the life of me I cannot understand hostility toward Christ himself.

    I can never forgive him after what he did to that poor fig tree


  • #111
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can live in the past where that was reality.

    Others choose to live in the present where child protection is visible in the church with Garda vetted child protection people being present with the children when the priest is alone with a child to offer protection to both the child and the priest.
    The child is given full protection as times have changed despite some here living in the past where nothing has changed.

    Why are we still so backward that, if you want to help out in a primary school and you need garda vetting, that this vetting when completed is sent back to the local Bishop before the school, in this day and age, its sickening? FO Bishop.


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  • #112
    brickmauser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭brickmauser


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I can never forgive him after what he did to that poor fig tree

    That story is an fable.


  • #113
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Why are we still so backward that, if you want to help out in a primary school and you need garda vetting, that this vetting when completed is sent back to the local Bishop before the school, in this day and age, its sickening? FO Bishop.

    Are you saying Catholic schools should not bother vetting people who work with children?


  • #114
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,863 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Please dont do Phoenix Park

    2,5 million like in 79 it will not attract but anyone going now thinks it ll be a great idea to go by car.
    Somehow i dont think that was the case in 79


  • #115
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,911 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can live in the past where that was reality.

    Others choose to live in the present where child protection is visible in the church with Garda vetted child protection people being present with the children when the priest is alone with a child to offer protection to both the child and the priest.
    The child is given full protection as times have changed despite some here living in the past where nothing has changed.
    The priest needs protection too as there have been cases of false accusations by people who saw it as a way to receive money via compensation.

    We saw in the Ferns report how parents didn't believe children, Gardai were told and didn't act and even part of the health sector acted incorrectly.
    It is a good thing times have changed because society and too much reverence was bad. Too much trust and choosing to not believe and be blind to the abuse all made the priesthood a perfect breeding ground for paedophiles to join and to use that reverence and trust for very nefarious crimes.
    Times have changed.

    there are still those in the catholic hierarchy that shielded paedophiles. The church still does not cooperate fully with criminal investigations and tribunals. the church has still not fully compensated victims. this is all in the present.


  • #116
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    I hope he doesn't cause huge congestion in NI if he comes up here. He should visit the shinners in a castle in the countryside.


  • #117
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there are still those in the catholic hierarchy that shielded paedophiles. The church still does not cooperate fully with criminal investigations and tribunals. the church has still not fully compensated victims. this is all in the present.

    RobertKK ignores all that though.

    A bit like how 90% of the Bible is ignored by the Catholic Church because it either makes no sense or contradicts the 10% they use.


  • #118
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    It's interesting how people are so against this visit because of what the church has done in this country, yet those same people were all for welcoming the Queen when her armed forces have done some equally horrific things in this country. Personally not bothered as i'm not Catholic so won't be going, lots of people in this country still are so if they want to go see him i'll leave them be.


  • #119
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,771 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    RobertKK ignores all that though.

    A bit like how 90% of the Bible is ignored by the Catholic Church because it either makes no sense or contradicts the 10% they use.

    I ignore nothing, I can see the wider picture.

    People who say nothing has changed are trying to deny reality.


  • #120
    Dick phelan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    I find it funny how people who say the Church means nothing to them seem to talk about it an awful lot, i haven't been in a Church in years, pay no attention to what the Pope said's or does, people getting angry about the Pope visiting who cares if you don't believe stay away it has no effect on your life.


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  • #121
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Dick phelan wrote: »
    I find it funny how people who say the Church means nothing to them seem to talk about it an awful lot, i haven't been in a Church in years, pay no attention to what the Pope said's or does, people getting angry about the Pope visiting who cares if you don't believe stay away it has no effect on your life.

    Except the taxes you will be paying to fund the visit


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