Louise O Neill on rape culture.

Mortpourvelo · 24-11-2016 08:51AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

WTF have i just read???

Typical mediaevel level bullsh*t.

osmiumartist · 24-11-2016 07:35PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

That's the brilliant thing about living in a democracy. You can live your life how you choose as long as you are causing no harm to anyone.

Drug and prostitution laws would beg to differ.

sashafierce · 25-11-2016 01:46PM

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Widdershins · 25-11-2016 01:51PM

sashafierce wrote: »

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I thought the feminists would be the last ones to use a notallmen hashtag?

The_Kew_Tour · 25-11-2016 01:54PM

They Must have not asked any White Men as it be 100% if it was, as all White Men are rapists.

Or so we are told.

sashafierce · 25-11-2016 01:57PM

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retro:electro · 25-11-2016 02:01PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I thought the feminists would be the last ones to use a notallmen hashtag?

Yea, surely whynotallmen would be more in their tune.

sashafierce · 25-11-2016 02:05PM

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midnight city · 25-11-2016 02:23PM

sashafierce wrote: »

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93% of men don't then. I'm not sure if those figures are accurate. There is a percentage of men that are violent brutes. I doubt its really 7% more like 1 or 2% would be like that. No amount of hashtagging, feminist articles or consent classes will change those type of men though.

sydthebeat · 25-11-2016 02:25PM

sashafierce wrote: »

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first off i dont for one second accept that the results are a reflection of irish society, i dont know what section of society they surveyed for this but i cannot believe that if i lined up 100 people in from of me right now, 9 of them would say its ok to rape a woman because of what shes wearing.

second off they havent published that the survey actually shows that WOMEN actually believe non consensual sex is justified in more cases than men (by 78% to 74%)
and 11% of women (according to this survey) actually believe that non consensual sex is justified in the case of "wearing revealing clothing" as compared to 7% of men

it also shows that ireland, as a whole, believe non consensual sex is unjustified in all cases in a greater majority than the rest of europe (76% compared to 68%)

i dispair

http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/ResultDoc/download/DocumentKy/75855

sashafierce · 25-11-2016 02:32PM

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orubiru · 25-11-2016 03:02PM

sashafierce wrote: »

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"21% of Irish say sex without consent is fine in certain circumstances"

"11% of Irish respondents believed that being under the influence of alcohol and drugs justifies sexual intercourse without consent."

"Shockingly, 9% of respondents believe that sexual intercourse is warranted when person voluntarily goes home with someone."

"Most concerning, 7% of Irish survey participants say sexual intercourse without consent is justified if the person is out walking alone at night."

So 79% of Irish think that consent is required when having sex.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

89% of Irish respondents believe that that being under the influence of alcohol and drugs does not justify sexual intercourse without consent.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

91% of respondents do not believe that sexual intercourse is warranted when person voluntarily goes home with someone.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

93% of Irish survey participants say that sexual intercourse without consent is justified if the person is out walking alone at night.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

So this article demonstrates that Irish people overwhelmingly believe that consent is important?

We shouldn't ignore the 7 to 21% of people who have baffling ideas about consent, and those folks need some education, but surely it's time to drop the Rape Culture label? It seems pretty damn clear that the overwhelming majority of people within our culture respect the right of others to give or refuse consent?

It's almost as if we live in a culture that values and understands consent.

pumpkin4life · 25-11-2016 03:08PM

orubiru wrote: »

"21% of Irish say sex without consent is fine in certain circumstances"

"11% of Irish respondents believed that being under the influence of alcohol and drugs justifies sexual intercourse without consent."

"Shockingly, 9% of respondents believe that sexual intercourse is warranted when person voluntarily goes home with someone."

"Most concerning, 7% of Irish survey participants say sexual intercourse without consent is justified if the person is out walking alone at night."

So 79% of Irish think that consent is required when having sex.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

89% of Irish respondents believe that that being under the influence of alcohol and drugs does not justify sexual intercourse without consent.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

91% of respondents do not believe that sexual intercourse is warranted when person voluntarily goes home with someone.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

93% of Irish survey participants say that sexual intercourse without consent is justified if the person is out walking alone at night.
This is proof we live in a "Consent Culture".

So this article demonstrates that Irish people overwhelmingly believe that consent is important?

We shouldn't ignore the 7 to 21% of people who have baffling ideas about consent, and those folks need some education, but surely it's time to drop the Rape Culture label? It seems pretty damn clear that the overwhelming majority of people within our culture respect the right of others to give or refuse consent?

It's almost as if we live in a culture that values and understands consent.

This survey is the perfect example of the response bias.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Response_bias

Consent = could be interpreted by people in the sample as "you have to explicitly ask the other person before having sex with them" even though body language/flirting etc says otherwise eg: do I have my bosses consent to do this project. Result = a bunch of muppets who misunderstand the question saying yes.

If they asked is it acceptable to sexually assault people, the answers would be completely different.

midnight city · 25-11-2016 03:10PM

The big story out of that survey is that women's attitudes are even worse then men's. I look forward to www.her.ie reporting that.

retro:electro · 25-11-2016 03:11PM

I'm sure the questions on that survey were intentionally ambiguous in order to produce a shocking result.

seamus · 25-11-2016 03:12PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

it also shows that ireland, as a whole, believe non consensual sex is unjustified in all cases in a greater majority than the rest of europe (76% compared to 68%)

And in fact the report itself at the conclusion states that the results of the survey are a reason to be cautiously optimistic because attitudes are improving.

So despite the fact things are getting better and Ireland being 7th best out of 28, some quarters have decided to paint this as a shocking and terrible figure.

I do also have an issue with that specific question in that it's too vague;

QB10 Some people believe that having sexual intercourse without consent may be justified in certain situations. Do you think this applies to the
following circumstances?
(SHOW SCREEN - READ OUT - MULTIPLE ANSWERS POSSIBLE)
Wearing revealing, provocative or sexy clothing
Being drunk or using drugs
Flirting beforehand
Not clearly saying no or physically fighting back
Being out walking alone at night,
Having several sexual partners
Voluntarily going home with someone, for example after
a party or date
If the assailant does not realise what they were doing
If the assailant regrets his actions
None of these
Refusal (SPONTANEOUS)
Don't know

So two examples there where it could easily be vague;
1. "Having several sexual partners". Someone could easily read that and think it means threesomes or swinging. And that "without consent" means "without specifically asking if they want to have sex".

2. "If the assailant does not realise what they were doing", Is incredibly vague. Does the assailant think they have consent? Or is the assailant too drunk to give consent themselves? Or is the assailant asleep? Because if it's the case that both people are blackout drunk, then I'm kind of on the side of "justified" in that scenario, since neither party are capable of consent.

The question realistically should begin with a statement clarifying what "consent" is. And also using the word "acceptable" instead of the word "justified". That makes it a much more definitive expression of meaning.

Full report is here;
http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/ResultDoc/download/DocumentKy/75837

One stat I found most interesting were the age profiles. People over 55 and under 25 were the most likely to find non-consensual sex acceptable in some circumstances. This would reflect old attitudes in the former, and immature/inexperienced attitudes in the latter.
For women in particular, the young and the old were a third more likely than the 25-55 age group to say that it was acceptable in certain circumstances.

Klonker · 25-11-2016 03:15PM

I think some people questioned in that survey may be getting confused between consent and actually verbally saying the word yes. It would explain a lot as those figures seem ridiculous.

Ineedaname · 25-11-2016 03:29PM

seamus wrote: »

And in fact the report itself at the conclusion states that the results of the survey are a reason to be cautiously optimistic because attitudes are improving.

So despite the fact things are getting better and Ireland being 7th best out of 28, some quarters have decided to paint this as a shocking and terrible figure.

I do also have an issue with that specific question in that it's too vague;

So two examples there where it could easily be vague;
1. "Having several sexual partners". Someone could easily read that and think it means threesomes or swinging. And that "without consent" means "without specifically asking if they want to have sex".

2. "If the assailant does not realise what they were doing", Is incredibly vague. Does the assailant think they have consent? Or is the assailant too drunk to give consent themselves? Or is the assailant asleep? Because if it's the case that both people are blackout drunk, then I'm kind of on the side of "justified" in that scenario, since neither party are capable of consent.

The question realistically should begin with a statement clarifying what "consent" is. And also using the word "acceptable" instead of the word "justified". That makes it a much more definitive expression of meaning.

Full report is here;
http://ec.europa.eu/COMMFrontOffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/ResultDoc/download/DocumentKy/75837

One stat I found most interesting were the age profiles. People over 55 and under 25 were the most likely to find non-consensual sex acceptable in some circumstances. This would reflect old attitudes in the former, and immature/inexperienced attitudes in the latter.
For women in particular, the young and the old were a third more likely than the 25-55 age group to say that it was acceptable in certain circumstances.

I agree. Some of the questions are far too vague and could be interpreted a number of ways .

Also it doesn't define what "sex without consent" is. It could mean where the person hasn't explicitly said no.

pumpkin4life · 25-11-2016 03:29PM

Klonker wrote: »

I think some people questioned in that survey may be getting confused between consent and actually verbally saying the word yes. It would explain a lot as those figures seem ridiculous.

Exactly.

Also, if we take consent as = "asked the person explicitly" and look at the tables, the column its okay to have sex without consent if the person regrets it (which is the least ambiguous question here), 97% of Irish people disapprove. And even then, person regrets it could possibly be interpreted as "have sex with someone unattractive/cheated on my girlfriend and regretted it etc".

This is a b.s study done to get more funding for these bullshìt gender equality E.U programs.

pumpkin4life · 25-11-2016 03:32PM

As for domestic violence being acceptable: People thinking "what if my wife ran at me with a giant knife and I was in danger of my life so I had to hit her" and so they say domestic violence is acceptable under some circumstances.

darkdubh · 25-11-2016 04:53PM

Where was that poll conducted? The sex offenders wing of Wheatfield Prison?

me_right_one · 25-11-2016 05:37PM

All these polls and surveys are complete b0llox. They always were, and they always will be.

RonFan · 26-11-2016 12:28AM

midnight city wrote: »

The big story out of that survey is that women's attitudes are even worse then men's. I look forward to www.her.ie reporting that.

Forced patriarchal internalization, along with the inner "male gaze" coercing them to blow ludicrous amounts on make up.

Outlaw Pete · 27-11-2016 04:15PM

Now 'Baby It's Cold Outside' is an example of rape culture. I believe that would be called 'scraping the barrel'.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/802528519452585984

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFJ7ie_yGU

Richard Hillman · 27-11-2016 04:29PM

She clearly has underlying mental health issues. It could be something from her youth that led her to have a vitriolic hate of men.

I can understand where her rape-culture buddy Emma Watson and her crusade of demonizing men comes from after being sexualised from a young age. That sort of stuff would affect any young lady.

With O'Neill, there is something from her past that makes her extremely agro and wanting to convince other females that men are horrible.

It is the Newspaper editors that are exploiting her personal issues that need a good kick in the shins.

27-11-2016 04:56PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

She clearly has underlying mental health issues. It could be something from her youth that led her to have a vitriolic hate of men.

I can understand where her rape-culture buddy Emma Watson and her crusade of demonizing men comes from after being sexualised from a young age. That sort of stuff would affect any young lady.

With O'Neill, there is something from her past that makes her extremely agro and wanting to convince other females that men are horrible.

It is the Newspaper editors that are exploiting her personal issues that need a good kick in the shins.

Agreed about the editors encouraging her crap - I know she had anorexia and apparently her shrink instilled the feminist ideology into her (which has to be some ethical issue there) - least there's a few challenging her...If she's a troll she's doing a good job

Outlaw Pete · 27-11-2016 05:16PM

Sasha Wide Squash wrote: »

Agreed about the editors encouraging her crap - I know she had anorexia and apparently her shrink instilled the feminist ideology into her (which has to be some ethical issue there) - least there's a few challenging her...If she's a troll she's doing a good job

In fairness to the editors, if there was no market for her nonsense they wouldn't hire her. There is huge money to be made from what she is doing. I see a lot of people saying most people don't believe that stuff but I disagree. I am in my early 40's and even I hear people mirroring her nonsense. My 50 year old brother played that fcuking 'Consent is like offer a cup of Tea' video to the family one year. Don't underestimate that effect that all this crap is having. That's why dopes like Blindboy are going on TV pontificating to men that they need more feminism in their lives. It's as fashionable as starbucks right now and he wants a slice. Girl Power has been replaced by Victimhood Power. They see themselves as some kind of resistance movement to the ever oppressing patriarchy.

Basically Louise cries wolf for a living and she's coining it in as a result.

27-11-2016 05:21PM

orubiru wrote: »

We shouldn't ignore the 7 to 21% of people who have baffling ideas about consent, and those folks need some education

We can't possibly educate people about consent. A lot of people have a freak out about the very idea. It's the same as calling all men rapists, you see

Outlaw Pete · 27-11-2016 05:35PM

bluewolf wrote: »

We can't possibly educate people about consent. A lot of people have a freak out about the very idea. It's the same as calling all men rapists, you see

From what I can see of society, it's women that need some education about consent and not just men.

Especially regarding body language. The 'consent is about the presence of a yes' stuff is Grade A bullshit.

Connacht2KXX · 27-11-2016 06:49PM

bluewolf wrote: »

We can't possibly educate people about consent. A lot of people have a freak out about the very idea. It's the same as calling all men rapists, you see

To a certain extent. As much as I despise LON's unauthentic, plagiarised rhetoric, including something to do with consent in primary and secondary school sex talks (provided it's not there already) is very important. Beating it in to students about not groping other women, getting with a very drunk girl and emphasising how they will get screwed over by the law will definitely have some effect.

All that said, one's childhood has a far greater impact on how they will act around others. Alcohol addiction, drug abuse, sexual assault etc also hugely sway one's actions with regards to women. It frustrates me to the brink of insanity how LON will not acknowledge this simple reality. She just harps on that consent classes will fix all of life's problems.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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