How do you define someone who is Irish? (multiple choice poll)

Junkyard Tom · 26-11-2016 05:48PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

White and Catholic.

So Wolfe Tone isn't Irish because he was a Protestant?

Get up the garden with your sectarian bullshit.

me_right_one · 26-11-2016 05:49PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Are Paul McGrath and Phill Lynott not Irish because their ethnicity is mixed?

They're half-Irish. Whats exactly is wrong with that?

indioblack · 26-11-2016 05:49PM

Candie wrote: »

Where's the 'Born in England to one Irish parent, partially raised in Ireland, spent most holidays in Ireland and have three Irish grandparents, but will not be shamed about being English either' option?

I see myself as about 50/50 Irish/English between the roots and few years there. In fact I think I've had the best of both, very similar, cultures. There isn't as big a gulf between the Brits and the Irish as some would insist.

My brother was born in England. He was raised from an early age in Ireland, lived all his life there, is buried there - fiercely patriotic, in no doubt as to his nationality - whatever the rules said.
With the Cork accent he had on him, what else would he be?!

Junkyard Tom · 26-11-2016 05:50PM

me_right_one wrote: »

They're half-Irish. Whats exactly is wrong with that?

Eh, they're 100% Irish and that's that. This is why ethnic nationalism is toxic.

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 05:52PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Not really. Civic Nationalism.

Imigh leat le do "Civic Nationalism". Civic Nationalism is nonsense that tries to plaster over a society. France is fond of their civic nationalism, but I've yet to see them do anything with it except go on strike and fail to address "ghettoisation" while trying to ignore ethnic nationalism sitting under the surface.

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 05:53PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Eh, they're 100% Irish and that's that. This is why ethnic nationalism is toxic.

If they were, you wouldn't be getting uppity about the term ethnic nationalism now would you?

me_right_one · 26-11-2016 05:53PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Eh, they're 100% Irish and that's that. This is why ethnic nationalism is toxic.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. And to be honest, its a bit racist of you to imply that being half-Irish is somehow "less" than being full-Irish. They're only factual terms, they're not indications of a persons worth.

Arcade_Tryer · 26-11-2016 05:55PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Not really. Civic Nationalism.

A similar argument is made regarding religion.

Neither are required for a functioning democratic society.

andekwarhola · 26-11-2016 05:56PM

Born in England to Irish parents (and raised in a very typical extended Irish family in England) and they moved back to Ireland when I was a kid and I've lived here ever since. Married to an Irish woman with two kids born here. Will rear my kids here and die here.

I have an Irish passport and have always identified as Irish (although I'm not ashamed of being born in England and will always have a link to - and fondness for - that country) but I'm not going to lose sleep if I fall between the cracks of somebody's nationality definition.

NoFreeGaffs · 26-11-2016 05:56PM

There's nothing wrong with saying someone is half Irish if they have dual backgrounds. It's a statement of fact.

NoFreeGaffs · 26-11-2016 05:59PM

If somebody is born to two Irish parents and spent most of their time here as a kid then of course they're Irish. Doesn't matter if they were born in Southern Yemen!

It's ridiculous to say they're not Irish if both their parents are Irish and they grew up here!

CelticRambler · 26-11-2016 06:03PM

Solomon Pleasant wrote: »

If you're not born in the Republic of Ireland then you're not Irish.

Simple really.

Is it? So what about my eldest son: red hair, blue eyes, lots of freckles, has only ever had an Irish passport, having been born to a pure-blood Irish father and half-Irish mother. However, he had the misfortune to be born in England, went to primary school there, then secondary school in France before finally semi-permanently his feet on the auld sod so he could go to university in Dublin?

By your definition, he's not Irish, so what is he?

Junkyard Tom · 26-11-2016 06:04PM

me_right_one wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. And to be honest, its a bit racist of you to imply that being half-Irish is somehow "less" than being full-Irish. They're only factual terms, they're not indications of a persons worth.

Absolute bollocks, they're 100% Irish. Just because they've mixed heritage doesn't exclude them from being part of the Irish nation.

In fact it's just laughable that you accuse me of being a 'bit racist' while simultaneously describing Irish people as 'half-Irish' because they've mixed heritage. In fact it's you who is being a bit racist.

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 06:05PM

Solomon Pleasant wrote:

If you're not born in the Republic of Ireland then you're not Irish.

Are you one of those lads that complains about people living in the north being entitled to Irish passports?

andekwarhola · 26-11-2016 06:05PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

However, he had the misfortune to be born in England, went to primary school there

You make it sound like he was in the Gulag

Arcade_Tryer · 26-11-2016 06:07PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

100% Irish.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Can someone be 5% Irish? 30%? 60%? 99.9999%?

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 06:07PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Absolute bollocks, they're 100% Irish. Just because they've mixed heritage doesn't exclude them from being part of the Irish nation.

In fact it's just laughable that you accuse me of being a 'bit racist' while simultaneously describing Irish people as 'half-Irish' because they've mixed heritage. In fact it's you who is being a bit racist.

You seem to have trouble comprehending this so I'm going to break it down for you. I'll give you 4 different scenarios.

Father is A, mother is A = Child is AA
Father is B, mother is B = Child is BB
Father is A, mother is B = Child is AB
Father is B, mother is A = Child is BA

The fact is, if half of your lineage is from somewhere else, then you're (by definition) only half-Irish.

Don't understand why you're getting so annoyed over this, are you half-Irish and think people are saying you're not Irish at all? Or are you just getting offended over nothing?

An Ciarraioch · 26-11-2016 06:09PM

If a person is permanently living or working in Ireland, and self-identify as Irish, then they should be considered Irish, regardless of where they were born. If a Irish-born person moves abroad, they can hardly lose that nationality, but will eventually have greater affinity with their host nation, rather than with Ireland.

Jimmy Garlic · 26-11-2016 06:12PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

White and Catholic.

Catholicism isn't Irish at all, it is a large cult with its headquarters in Rome, Italy. Given all the damage that Catholicism has done to this country I don't think we should be including it as something that defines Irishness. The Catholic church has been a sinister influence on this country from the very beginning...

Laudabiliter

The bull purports to grant the right to the Angevin King Henry II of England to invade and govern Ireland and to enforce the Gregorian Reforms on the semi-autonomous Christian Church in Ireland. Richard de Clare ("Strongbow") and the other leaders of the Norman invasion of Ireland (1169–71) claimed that Laudabiliter authorised the invasion. These Cambro-Norman knights were retained by Diarmuid MacMorrough, the deposed King of Leinster, as an ally in his fight with the High King of Ireland, Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudabiliter

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 06:14PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

If a person is permanently living or working in Ireland, and self-identify as Irish, then they should be considered Irish, regardless of where they were born.

Heavily disagree with you.

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

If a Irish-born person moves abroad, they can hardly lose that nationality, but will eventually have greater affinity with their host nation, rather than with Ireland.

Heavily disagree with you again. If anything, Irish people abroad tend to identify just as (in some cases, more strongly or less strongly) Irish as those who stayed behind.

CelticRambler · 26-11-2016 06:15PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

You make it sound like he was in the Gulag

It felt like it at the time ... for me at least. Too much conflict with all the rules imposed by the school, especially having to make a written application to the Governers requesting permission to take my under-7 children out of school for a few days during term-time. :mad:

That's why we left! :pac:

Junkyard Tom · 26-11-2016 06:16PM

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Can someone be 5% Irish? 30%? 60%? 99.9999%?

100% is just a term. They're Irish through and through. Is that better? Tbh I don't feel much like getting involved in a discussion with people who've toxic notions that people like Paul McGrath is 'half Irish'.

Are the black footballers who play for the English team half English? Is Frank Bruno half English? Is Gerogia Salpa half Irish?

The flying mouse · 26-11-2016 06:17PM

Well
I was born in the town of Boston,
A town you all know well
brought up by honest parents
The truth to you I'll tell
brought up by honest parents
and raised most tenderly
'till I became a sporting lad
At the age of twenty-three

AnGaelach · 26-11-2016 06:18PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

100% is just a term. They're Irish through and through. Is that better? Tbh I don't feel much like getting involved in a discussion with people who've toxic notions that people like Paul McGrath is 'half Irish'.

Are the black footballers who play for the English team half English? Is Frank Bruno half English? Is Gerogia Salpa half Irish?

You know the answers don't change if you add the word black or if it's someone attractive, right? If she's half-Irish and half-Greek then she isn't "100% Irish" or whatever nonsense you're spewing.

NoFreeGaffs · 26-11-2016 06:18PM

Absolute bollocks, they're 100% Irish.

Did they teach you maths in school? Someone with dual nationality and parentage is not one hundred percent Irish. It's a statement of fact.

The flying mouse · 26-11-2016 06:20PM

I was born in Dublin in 1962 to Irish parents, lived there till 1994, have lived abroad ever since. Am I still Irish.

Older brother & sister born in London, moved back to Ireland since they 3, Are they Irish.

Avatar MIA · 26-11-2016 06:20PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

White and Catholic.

I presumed this was a joke, or a troll at worst.

Is this to be taken as a serious opinion?

Didas · 26-11-2016 06:21PM

On the half-Irish thing, it's up to the person really. If someone born in Ireland to foreign parents wants to identify as half-Irish and half-wherever the parents are from, then that's grand. If they want identify solely as Irish then that's grand. However no one born here should be told they are half-Irish because of their ethnicity.

Jimmy Garlic · 26-11-2016 06:22PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

If a person is permanently living or working in Ireland, and self-identify as Irish, then they should be considered Irish,

If they have integrated and genuinely identify as Irish then they should be accepted as such. People who don't identify as Irish, even if they were born here, are not Irish and never will be.

Arcade_Tryer · 26-11-2016 06:22PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

100% is just a term. They're Irish through and through. Is that better? Tbh I don't feel much like getting involved in a discussion with people who've toxic notions that people like Paul McGrath is 'half Irish'.

Are the black footballers who play for the English team half English? Is Frank Bruno half English? Is Gerogia Salpa half Irish?

See, this is why the whole notion of being Irish is toxic. It's nothing more than a belief system, and so creates followers and fanatics. And various interpretations. Paul McGrath is 100% human being. He can believe himself to be a bit of all the nationalities in the world for all I care.

How do you define someone who is Irish? (multiple choice poll)

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