Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

n97 mini · 22-11-2016 07:09PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Suggested by Platform 11 in the O'Reilly report. Knocked back for a variety of reasons.

Shur there's always reason not to do something, until there is a reason to do it. PPT is a prime example. Only took 100 years or so.

Grandeeod · 22-11-2016 07:16PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Shur there's always reason not to do something, until there is a reason to do it. PPT is a prime example. Only took 100 years or so.

I agree with you regarding Glasnevin Junction. It has huge potential, but far too many naysayers.

n97 mini · 22-11-2016 07:24PM

With the PPT now running past it, it makes more sense than ever.

marno21 · 22-11-2016 07:26PM

L1011 wrote: »

There werw actually pax on one of the evening inbounds there. Didn't jump on to ask if they were ex Parkwest or Drumcondra, but Parkwest could be a decent source.

Very few seats on the 1737 outbound.

On its 2nd day it's already packed.

Goes to show how much of a joke it is that it wasn't open before and how much of a benefit DU would be to the city.

Grandeeod · 22-11-2016 08:42PM

marno21 wrote: »

On its 2nd day it's already packed.

Goes to show how much of a joke it is that it wasn't open before and how much of a benefit DU would be to the city.

Absolutely. The importance of DU is actually highlighted by this very small investment that could also stand on its own two feet even if DU was built.

goingnowhere · 22-11-2016 08:44PM

Hazelhatch Pearse through the PPT is 43 minutes and people are using it in volume by day 2 even in the absence of an off peak service

With DU it would be 26 minutes, just think about how more attractive it would be to take the train

Grandeeod · 22-11-2016 08:50PM

XPS_Zero wrote: »

FF didn't give a damn about the PPT as they were consumed by DU?

Not consumed enough to build it apparently and it's easy to argue DU was needed WAY more than PPT and would produce far greater benefits
For people so into promoting infrastructure FG govt had a bizzare way of showing this commitment proposing that insane Airport Luas plan instead of metro north (dumping people at the roundabout onto a "people mover" I mean ffsake) then pulling that after the backlash and replacing it with...nothing.

It's dangerous thinking to start attaching entire parties to opinions on projects as there's often dispute within parties on what to adopt
I personally know people in FG and FF who've gone mad arguing with country members and branches of their own parties who throw a huge irrational hissy fit whenever a project for Dublin is being discussed, they then, in a very familiar pattern say the country could use that money, when you ask how you get vague nonsense like "jobs" or absurd specifics like a Galway or Cork Luas

It should also be noted that after 2008 every govt we've had dropped the ball on infrastructure at the very time it would have provided badly needed stimulus

The original deadlines for completion of both metro lines and Luas extensions F and B2 have all passed now in some cases with planning permission running out

Our political class seems to think we don't need to do anything to attract investment or Brexit exodus companies other than our one trick pony deal of 12.5% CT, the last remnant of the tiger eras magical thinking on economics (with the theme: do this one trick and everything will flow from it) now as anyone with half a brain could have foreseen other countries are gutting their rates meanwhile we've sweet FA else to offer other than crappy infrastructure a fragmented transport network and a disastrously investment starved education system at all levels

No FF didn't give a damn about the PPT and they were consumed by DU in terms of promises and cash to design and bring it to railway order stage. IE even spun a story against the PPT because they feared it would be seen as an alternative, which it isn't. However FG in opposition did try to use the PPT as a stick to beat FF with on the basis of cost. The entire story sums up the dysfunctional relationship between politics and rail transport. Therefore it is certainly not dangerous to link entire parties to opinions on projects. History confirms this and I suggest you study it.

spacetweek · 22-11-2016 09:13PM

To build the Dart Underground, would that require taking the Luas at Stephen's Green out of service during construction?

L1011 · 22-11-2016 10:40PM

spacetweek wrote: »

To build the Dart Underground, would that require taking the Luas at Stephen's Green out of service during construction?

Unlikely. The intention was to use a portion of the park (including the Fusiliers Arch being moved) for the station box dig.

listermint · 22-11-2016 10:46PM

DU is a no brainer for a city this scale vying for international business and attempting to remove people from the roads.

It would have been a valuable asset post Brexit.

It will be a prerequisite when Carbon Taxation takes full swing.

And is a must for scaling the city.

Coupled with City Rail Links out of the city adequately resourced to larger urban centres. Navan...

Get on it enough of the nonsense.

Riskymove · 23-11-2016 09:51AM

marno21 wrote: »

On its 2nd day it's already packed.

Goes to show how much of a joke it is that it wasn't open before and how much of a benefit DU would be to the city.

in fairness, I have used it this week and no train I got on was "packed"

6 of us got off the 1819 train at hazelhatch yesterday

The trains are generally only 3 or 4 carriages so at busier times can be busy but nothing like the dundalk and maynooth trains

I got a train to Hueston this morning instead as they were running late. I got to Stephens green 35 minutes quicker than using the new PPT earlier this week

ClovenHoof · 23-11-2016 03:11PM

The instant success of the PPT will boost the case for the DARTUnderground.

It places the idea of rail connectivity within the consciousness of the commuter population.

From this point its a natural progression. Hence, why the original Platform 11 made it their Philosophers Stone all them years ago.

Decuc500 · 23-11-2016 03:39PM

I wonder are the new trains being squeezed into an already congested northbound platform at Pearse Steet in the evenings?

Yesterday I was getting the 16:49 Dart from Pearse to Malahide. The 16:43 to Hazelhatch was delayed by 5 minutes which meant the 16:46 to Drogheda was delayed and the Malahide bound dart delayed by 7 minutes and therefore a lot busier than usual.

Can they fit the new services in and keep the darts on time? Was yesterday just a result of the usual weather related delays this time of year?

loyatemu · 23-11-2016 03:55PM

Decuc500 wrote: »

Can they fit the new services in and keep the darts on time? Was yesterday just a result of the usual weather related delays this time of year?

hard to tell - nothing is running on time at the moment due to the get-out-of-jail card that is "low rail adhesion"

Idbatterim · 23-11-2016 04:13PM

when can we expect the 10 minute frequency darts?

could this potentially spur things on with dart underground? i.e. the the delays that you guys are already mentioning, before the dart frequency is even increased?

Keyzer · 23-11-2016 04:39PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I agree with you regarding Glasnevin Junction. It has huge potential, but far too many naysayers.

Cabra road would be a good idea for a stop too. No potential for connections but great for the wider area.

ChikiChiki · 23-11-2016 06:44PM

Think this is having a significant impact on other routes. All 6 trains I've been on this week haven't arrived on time.

All trains currently running behind schedule at Pearse.

Jamie2k9 · 23-11-2016 06:49PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Think this is having a significant impact on other routes. All 6 trains I've been on this week haven't arrived on time.

All trains currently running behind schedule at Pearse.

Delays have actually been cased to the new services because of Connolly issues this week.....

ChikiChiki · 23-11-2016 06:59PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Delays have actually been cased to the new services because of Connolly issues this week.....

And what issues are they? Surely they should have been ironed out in readiness to accept the new volume of trains through the station.

n97 mini · 23-11-2016 07:12PM

Some or all of these services could run to/from Connolly P7 which would mean nothing would be held up. When the 10 minute DART frequency starts (completely unnecessary IMO) it'll only make it worse.

trellheim · 23-11-2016 07:18PM

Cabra road would be a good idea for a stop too. No potential for connections but great for the wider area

I have said several times that a stop where the LUAS crosses ( when it opens ) the PPT line is the perfect interchange point , single change from Kildare Line services to get onto LUAS & go to Sandyford . There is JUST room to build a station

see

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3688261,-6.2850086,261m/data=!3m1!1e3

devnull · 23-11-2016 07:21PM

To be honest now that they have upped capacity on a number of peak hour trains using the excess stock, there is not the real need for the 10 minute DART like there was when it was first proposed. What they do need to do though is make some adjustments to timetables to split trains between Malahide and Howth better and examine weekend timetables and fix long gaps (for example there is a 90 minute gap between Malahide branch services on a Saturday)

My support for 10 minute DART was based on the fact that people were getting left behind every day on some services due to lack of capacity. I said at the time a better solution than 10 minute DARTS was lengthening a few 4 and 6 car trains by 2 cars each during peak and it would resolve much of the overcrowding and it has so there is not the pressure for it that there once was.

Realistically though in the next 4-5 years if passengers keep growing they are going to have to start thinking about some more rolling stock however, since I think now there is very limited carriages free at peak time and I doubt they will be able to increase capacity much beyond current levels. Plus as good as the 8100 class are by 2020 they will be approaching 40 years old

Jamie2k9 · 23-11-2016 07:24PM

devnull wrote: »

To be honest now that they have upped capacity on a number of peak hour trains using the excess stock, there is not the real need for the 10 minute DART like there was when it was first proposed. What they do need to do though is make some adjustments to timetables to split trains between Malahide and Howth better and examine weekend timetables and fix long gaps (for example there is a 90 minute gap between Malahide branch services on a Saturday)

My support for 10 minute DART was based on the fact that people were getting left behind every day on some services due to lack of capacity. I said at the time a better solution than 10 minute DARTS was lengthening a few 4 and 6 car trains by 2 cars each during peak and it would resolve much of the overcrowding and it has so there is not the pressure for it that there once was.

Realistically though in the next 4-5 years if passengers keep growing they are going to have to start thinking about some more rolling stock however, since I think now there is very limited carriages free at peak time and I doubt they will be able to increase capacity much beyond current levels. Plus as good as the 8100 class are by 2020 they will be approaching 40 years old

Well it's happening, very little evidence to back it up but ego boost for management. When it commences it will be one big mess for all services other than DART.

Some or all of these services could run to/from Connolly P7 which would mean nothing would be held up. When the 10 minute DART frequency starts (completely unnecessary IMO) it'll only make it worse.

Agree about DART but PPT to Connolly would make the service worthless. It will be DART that messes things up not GCD-PPT services. Like what would be the point when Luas does the same job...

thomasj · 23-11-2016 07:54PM

As of 4 hours ago there was a points failure in Connolly meaning drumcondra couldn't be used. Maynooth line services had to use Newcomen junction and midland line.

If it had've happened at peak hours ppt services would have been suspended.

n97 mini · 23-11-2016 07:57PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Agree about DART but PPT to Connolly would make the service worthless.

Connections can be made at Connolly. Half the morning services from Maynooth already terminate at Connolly.

Jamie2k9 · 23-11-2016 08:01PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Connections can be made at Connolly. Half the morning services from Maynooth already terminate at Connolly.

They do but I don't think it fits the bill for services coming from Heuston.

spacetweek · 23-11-2016 09:49PM

Riskymove wrote: »

I got a train to Hueston this morning instead as they were running late. I got to Stephens green 35 minutes quicker than using the new PPT earlier this week

This sounds unbelievable, how could it take so much less time considering your walk from OCS to Stephen's Green?

Keyzer wrote: »

Cabra road would be a good idea for a stop too. No potential for connections but great for the wider area.

Close to DIT.

n97 mini wrote: »

Some or all of these services could run to/from Connolly P7 which would mean nothing would be held up. When the 10 minute DART frequency starts (completely unnecessary IMO) it'll only make it worse.

Indeed they should be more frequent than 10 minutes - this isn't just a capacity matter, any Dubliner used to the Luas expects DARTs at peak time to match their frequency. The Luas raised the bar for how frequent trains should be in a city at peak hours.

IE 222 · 23-11-2016 11:16PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Some or all of these services could run to/from Connolly P7 which would mean nothing would be held up. When the 10 minute DART frequency starts (completely unnecessary IMO) it'll only make it worse.

Better terminating Maynooth services on P7 via newcome jct and time a PPT service to GCD to arrive at the same time on P6 to allow transfers. Avoids any conflicts and frees paths beyond connolly.

The_Wanderer · 23-11-2016 11:17PM

spacetweek wrote: »

This sounds unbelievable, how could it take so much less time considering your walk from OCS to Stephen's Green?

If I was in SSG I would probably continue to use Heuston via the 145 bus.

PPT services are really handy if you work close to Drumcondra / Connolly / Tara St / Pearse or Grand Canal Dock.

thomasj · 23-11-2016 11:26PM

You could be transferring half an 8 coach commuter train into a 3 coach intercity train?

Surely more sense to do the opposite?

Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

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