Arrival [SPOILERS FROM POST 45 ONWARD]

Mark Hamill · 16-11-2016 12:06PM

Overall I enjoyed it, but I found the tension in the last ~third a bit stupid. All the issues at the end basically come from the fact that they translated the Heptapods purpose as offering a "weapon". But then Adams Character points out that they hadn't actually determined the difference between a tool and a weapon with the Heptapods. So which genius, when deciphering the Heptopods word for "object with particular use" decided to label it as as weapon (a very specific kind of "object with particular use")? It just seems very stupid to me for any linguist to make that kind of mistake, particularly when the films was at pains to explain the importance of avoiding such mistakes before hand.

MeatTwoVeg · 16-11-2016 12:17PM

johnny_ultimate wrote:

There's no such complications in the source material - the reasons behind the 'arrival' are much more ambiguous, and perhaps just boil down to the primal fascination of two alien species encountering each and learning from each other. The 'realistic' - well, relatively so for a written language that allows users to perceive time 'simultaneously' - linguistic and practical dilemmas are IMO much more intriguing and help completely separate this from the pack of other sci-fi movies. There is no reason to believe teaching each other languages would be something that could be achieved easily if 'we' and 'they' perceive the universe in an entirely different manner.

We don't just encounter each other though. They very deliberately arrive on our planet.
Any species advanced and evolved enough to accomplish such a feat will be very unlikely to want to communicate with us. At best they'd view us as interesting monkeys.

16-11-2016 01:16PM

I sat there for most of the movie, thinking about how nice it was to have a major movie that didn't pander to the Chinese market (I'm looking at you Independence Day 2, Iron Man 3, Transformers .. whatever the one with Mark Wahlberg was, & many others) - it showed China as being aggressive and the people that possibly might be the ones that signal the end of the world. But then it turned around in the closing act and painted China as being the heroes, essentially.

But still.. it was a completely mindbending, thought provoking, and interesting movie. Undertones of Slaughterhouse Five and the Tralfamadorians. Afterwards I kept trying to figure out the linear progression of the movie, trying to establish what the present was against what the past and future are/were. And then I realized that this was pointless - it was as non-linear and as scattered as Memento, with the wonder of Contact.

It also raises so many dark undertones - imagine knowing that you're going to get married, your marriage is going to collapse once your husband knows that you know what'll happen, that you're going to have a child, and that this child is going to die-- and still going through with all of it.

Probably the best movie I've seen this year and the best I've seen in the cinema for a long time.

I thought it'd be absolutely hilarious if at some point Abbot & Costello communicate and then it shows the translation as being -

"Why the f*ck do you keep bringing the bird? It's annoying as balls".

Decuc500 · 16-11-2016 01:58PM

One of the year’s best films for me. I thought it was gripping and entertaining yet also very thought provoking.

For a film maker that is so prolific Denis Villeneuve’s films are consistently brilliant.

peteeeed · 16-11-2016 02:12PM

Decuc500 wrote: »

One of the year’s best films for me. I thought it was gripping and entertaining yet also very thought provoking.

For a film maker that is so prolific Denis Villeneuve’s films are consistently brilliant.

yep, my expectations for the blade runner sequel have shot up dramatically with Villeneuve in the directors chair

sheroman01 · 17-11-2016 12:06AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Its not just her that could see the future though - the implication of what she says re. the language is that anyone who learns it and understands it, will see the world and time in the same way. The language would change humanity, forever.

So, because she fully understands the alien's language means she can see the future? And if someone else was to understand it, they could see the future too?

17-11-2016 01:47PM

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Obviously a suspension of disbelief is required for SF films, but the idea that an alien civilization would be advanced enough to master interstellar travel but not have figured out a suitable means of communicating with the species they're travelling to, beyond farting out some ink, is quite frankly, beyond preposterous.

Perhaps they hadn't "remembered" it yet, just as Louise didn't "remember" how to convince General Shang not to destroy the ship in China until it was almost about to happen.

I'm just wondering if the linear timeline is incomplete and leaves gaps until you experience certain things that will be a trigger for filling in the blanks.

.ak · 17-11-2016 10:35PM

Loved it.

Would maybe dock it a point for the dragging out the 'revelation' bit towards the end. You know what happens, no need to dumb it down.

.ak · 17-11-2016 10:37PM

peteeeed wrote: »

yep, my expectations for the blade runner sequel have shot up dramatically with Villeneuve in the directors chair

Didn't realize he got BR sequel... I'm very happy now.

Will Jóhann Jóhannsson get to score that also? His work in Arrival, Sicario and Prisoners is amazing.

17-11-2016 10:47PM

I love Jóhann Jóhannsson's work. He did this excellent series of songs, which centered around old IBM computers, including the sound of a Processing Unit and a tape of someone reading a user manual. Sounds boring, but is oddly magical.

Edit:

This song reminded me a bit of the excellent score from Girl With All the Gifts

peteeeed · 18-11-2016 12:18AM

.ak wrote: »

Didn't realize he got BR sequel... I'm very happy now.

Will Jóhann Jóhannsson get to score that also? His work in Arrival, Sicario and Prisoners is amazing.

Yes he's scoring the sequel

Dr Crayfish · 19-11-2016 02:37PM

Saw it last night. I love sci fi but in saying that there's only a handful of sci fi films I really love. This is one of them now. I just thought it was perfectly paced, I was enthralled. The revelation about the child was something I didn't see coming. Best movie I've seen in a long long time. Imagine you were guaranteed that standard of film once a week?

Sudden Valley · 19-11-2016 03:11PM

A good movie with an interesting twist but not one I would rush back to rewatch. The best scenes for me were the one's with her daughter, I was just not "wowed" or interested after the first few alien interactions and they make up the majority of the running time of the movie. Amy adams was great but I think she needed a stronger supporting character and Renner had very little to do and has very little screen presence
Did wonder if you learn something from the future and can then use it change something in the present to make that future happen is that supported by any scientific theory?

indough · 20-11-2016 01:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought it'd be absolutely hilarious if at some point Abbot & Costello communicate and then it shows the translation as being -

"Why the f*ck do you keep bringing the bird? It's annoying as balls".

I was thinking of how great it would be if it turned out they were talking to the bird the whole time

expectationlost · 20-11-2016 09:12PM

what is the timeline of releasing the book and meeting the chinese general?

Sad Professor · 20-11-2016 09:19PM

expectationlost wrote: »

what is the timeline of releasing the book and meeting the chinese general?

I'm not sure, but I assume the book was the result of several years work where as the meeting with the general happens shortly after the aliens leave.

FunLover18 · 20-11-2016 09:20PM

expectationlost wrote:

what is the timeline of releasing the book and meeting the chinese general?

Sad Professor wrote:

I'm not sure, but I assume the book was the result of several years work where as the meeting with the general happens shortly after the aliens leave.

Doesn't he mention something about it being 18 months since she changed his mind

Sad Professor · 20-11-2016 09:23PM

Yeah, so the book is definitely later. I can't remember how old her daughter was in the scene when you see her unpacking a copy from the publisher.

FunLover18 · 20-11-2016 10:49PM

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah, so the book is definitely later. I can't remember how old her daughter was in the scene when you see her unpacking a copy from the publisher.

Is there not a big poster for her book in the background when they meet, or is it just one of the language's symbols? Must be because you're right about her unpacking it with the daughter in the background

Sad Professor · 20-11-2016 11:06PM

Yeah, there is, but that's not necessarily associated with the book. It's just the alien language we had been seeing throughout the film.

The book would have taken years to write. Remember they said it would take all 12 countries sharing information to do it. It's the culmination of all her study of the language. The party in which she meets the general would have been the start of that process rather than the end of it.

expectationlost · 21-11-2016 01:05PM

just wondering how long until they let everyone else learn the language

peteeeed · 21-11-2016 01:14PM

expectationlost wrote: »

just wondering how long until they let everyone else learn the language

i was thinking about this, how bonkers would a sequel be?

Sad Professor · 21-11-2016 01:30PM

I assume it was all in her book. But I'd imagine many people wouldn't want to know, or the work involved in learning would be too difficult for many people of the current generation. Think of how much more naturally technology comes to younger generations.

A sequel in which society becomes divided between speakers and non-speakers would be interesting, though. Even though the aliens know this will unite humanity, I'd imagine there would massive upheaval in the short term.

pixelburp · 21-11-2016 07:07PM

Smart without being pretentious, epic without being bombastic, this was definitely one of the strongest Sci-Fi films of the last few years and managed to be such while also being one of the more optimistic of the genre in a much longer time. While not all that surprising given the current state of the world, Science Fiction has become a broadly apocalyptic, nihilistic brand, where humanity is often merely slumming it until we contrive to extinguish ourselves. That 'The Walking Dead' is the most popular show on US TV says it all. For anyone yearning for the days when sci-fi was a little more hopeful, and a little smarter in its step, this would be the film for you.

Arrival managed to buck that trend of hopelessness, and it did so with little fuss yet a mountain of confidence in itself; never overly pandering in dumbing-down its inherently complex concepts, or indulging in excessive mawkishness with the more human moments. Where a film like Interstellar bludgeoned the viewer over the head with its themes of love & compassion, Arrival threaded a subtler, more meaningful sense of what it was to be human. Even Arrival's close genetic cousin - the underrated 'Contact' - dialled the sentiment too far.

What's more remarkable is that it told an optimistic tale, while maintaining a legitimate threat of the unknown, a tangible 'otherness' of the aliens: the easy route would have been to make the aliens more palatable, more traditional in appearance, yet Villeneuve ensured there was only ever a strong disconnect between humanity & the aliens. In a film about (mis)communication, it was important the audience never projected its own bias of what the aliens could be up to. These potential saviours had to be, well, slightly gross.

If Arrival achieved one interesting victory though, it certainly suggested there was little to fear about the Villeneuve-helmed sequel to Blade Runner, because on the evidence of his CV thus far, he can turn his hand to anything & make it work.

kingcurls · 22-11-2016 02:52PM

Really can't understand the reviews this film is getting, and the frustratingly narrow response from people that "you just didn't get it" seems to be reassuring people of their point of view who seemed to have taken some deep personal meaning from the film.

Continuing without any great spoiler alert because the thread has it in the title:

For me it was very well shot and acted film which fell down woefully in it's final act. There certainly was great tension and 'realism' (as realistic as you can hope to be with the subject matter of aliens arriving and what they might look like) created in the first two acts. The score, the genuine breath holding first entrance to the communication chamber and Amy Adams overall great performance being particular highlights.

The general theme of the film purports itself to be communication but then with the reveal of the twist tries to add in a personal layer about choice in your life and knowing the outcome of your choices. Having figured out relatively early that the timeline was askew and possibly the daughter didn't exist yet (and Renner being the obvious choice for father) maybe the reveal was spoiled for me but there are some unforgivable blunders in the final act which led me to leave the cinema shaking my head.

- The subtitling of the aliens in a dreadful bit of plot exposition is unforgivable and was genuinely laughable.
- The Deus Ex of the Chinese general handing her the solution in her now non linear perception of time again laughable and lazy.
- The time paradox of the general approaching her in the "future" in order to convince her to call him in the "past" makes no sense unless they are suggesting there are infinite possible futures (in which case how lucky she saw the one that mattered)
- The slow drawn out closing sequence did nothing other than bash the viewer over the head with the reveal in case you hadn't gotten it yet... who's that the daughter is calling Daddy??? Oh its Jeremy Renner! Shock!
- The fact that she would purposely cause great distress and harm to Renner's character by using him to have a child knowing he would abandon her for her deceit when he found out is troubling. She was perfectly happy for her child to live with a broken relationship with her father, lose her partner and suffer the pain of losing a child and having that child also suffer pain for what? So she could enjoy the few short years with her child?

IMHO here is how the film should have concluded (I'm not a screenwriter but a frustrated movie fan) -

The child should have held the key to her solving the world crisis and unifying nations, not the Chinese General. At least then there would have been a genuinely heart wrenching decision for her to make - sacrifice her relationship, have a child whom she know is destined to die young and suffer great personal loss in order to ensure the advancement of the human race.

Would that not have been a better way to wrap up? Keen to hear your opinions.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

MeatTwoVeg · 22-11-2016 03:15PM

kingcurls wrote:

Would that not have been a better way to wrap up? Keen to hear your opinions.

Yeah, that was better.

mewso · 22-11-2016 03:58PM

One of the better films I've seen this year but it's biggest flaw for me is that this 'gift' seems more like a curse. Learn this aliens language and experience the death of everyone you love today. Why wait? You can see if they go peacefully or screaming in agony by purchasing this book right now for just $24.99.

eviltimeban · 22-11-2016 03:58PM

kingcurls wrote: »

Really can't understand the reviews this film is getting, and the frustratingly narrow response from people that "you just didn't get it" seems to be reassuring people of their point of view who seemed to have taken some deep personal meaning from the film.

You just didn't get it.

hollymartins · 22-11-2016 05:02PM

I saw it today in the Lighthouse, just a handful of people watching it. I usually bring my baby to the parent & child screenings there but it's my last day of maternity leave and they're in the creche so I thought I'd treat myself to seeing a film on my own. In hindsight it wasn't the wisest choice of film as I was tearful during the opening scenes with her daughter and I started off again at the end

I'm not a huge sci-fl fan but I thought it was very effective, I liked how there was a core group of actors rather than a cast of millions.

Fysh · 23-11-2016 05:41PM

kingcurls wrote: »

Really can't understand the reviews this film is getting, and the frustratingly narrow response from people that "you just didn't get it" seems to be reassuring people of their point of view who seemed to have taken some deep personal meaning from the film.

Continuing without any great spoiler alert because the thread has it in the title:

For me it was very well shot and acted film which fell down woefully in it's final act. There certainly was great tension and 'realism' (as realistic as you can hope to be with the subject matter of aliens arriving and what they might look like) created in the first two acts. The score, the genuine breath holding first entrance to the communication chamber and Amy Adams overall great performance being particular highlights.

The general theme of the film purports itself to be communication but then with the reveal of the twist tries to add in a personal layer about choice in your life and knowing the outcome of your choices. Having figured out relatively early that the timeline was askew and possibly the daughter didn't exist yet (and Renner being the obvious choice for father) maybe the reveal was spoiled for me but there are some unforgivable blunders in the final act which led me to leave the cinema shaking my head.

- The subtitling of the aliens in a dreadful bit of plot exposition is unforgivable and was genuinely laughable.
- The Deus Ex of the Chinese general handing her the solution in her now non linear perception of time again laughable and lazy.
- The time paradox of the general approaching her in the "future" in order to convince her to call him in the "past" makes no sense unless they are suggesting there are infinite possible futures (in which case how lucky she saw the one that mattered)
- The slow drawn out closing sequence did nothing other than bash the viewer over the head with the reveal in case you hadn't gotten it yet... who's that the daughter is calling Daddy??? Oh its Jeremy Renner! Shock!
- The fact that she would purposely cause great distress and harm to Renner's character by using him to have a child knowing he would abandon her for her deceit when he found out is troubling. She was perfectly happy for her child to live with a broken relationship with her father, lose her partner and suffer the pain of losing a child and having that child also suffer pain for what? So she could enjoy the few short years with her child?

IMHO here is how the film should have concluded (I'm not a screenwriter but a frustrated movie fan) -

The child should have held the key to her solving the world crisis and unifying nations, not the Chinese General. At least then there would have been a genuinely heart wrenching decision for her to make - sacrifice her relationship, have a child whom she know is destined to die young and suffer great personal loss in order to ensure the advancement of the human race.

Would that not have been a better way to wrap up? Keen to hear your opinions.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far!

I get what you're going for, but I cant help feel that making the child play a part in resolving the situation at the end would play out as hackneyed in practice, if anything more implausibly convenient than the thing with the general (which was, admittedly, a bit overdone for dramatic purposes).

The thing with the general handing her the solution to the problem feels like a deus ex machina because it is - there's no way a non-linear-time-resolution will *not* feel that way, because it's essentially "free" information. Having that as something separate to the storyline with the child felt more honest to me, in that there's no reason for the two sets of events to be causally linked. I would've preferred if the general had said something like "after repeating my wife's dying words, you then told me that I would meet you in 18 months, and that when we met I was to say those exact words to you, in Mandarin" to close the loop.

Arrival [**SPOILERS FROM POST 45 ONWARD**]

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Arrival [SPOILERS FROM POST 45 ONWARD]