Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

steddyeddy · 14-11-2016 01:15PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why would they not say it is due to Brexit?

Havant has been in steady decline for decades, ever since they moved SMA to Limerick. I believe Pfizer are now looking to sell it, as they did their site in Dun Laoghaire. Pfizer also closed Wyeth's head office in Taplow a few years ago.

I doubt very much this has anything to do with Brexit and more to do with Pfizer being under a lot of financial pressure due to a lot of expiring patents.

Do you not think Brexit adds considerable pressure to Pfizer?

steddyeddy · 14-11-2016 01:16PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apples and oranges.

Pfizer have been closing sites globally for several years, this us just a continuation of that.

It is probably accelerating due to the failed merger with Astra-Zeneca, but this is not connected to Brexit.

It's not closing it's moving to Belgium.

steddyeddy · 14-11-2016 01:18PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Apples and oranges.

Pfizer have been closing sites globally for several years, this us just a continuation of that.

It is probably accelerating due to the failed merger with Astra-Zeneca, but this is not connected to Brexit.

Every single one of our order in chemicals has gone up due to the fall in the pound. If tarrifs are placed on our European products we're in trouble.

Fratton Fred · 14-11-2016 01:20PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do you not think Brexit adds considerable pressure to Pfizer?

not as much as losing patents does. They also seem to be closing their Hospira plants (of which Park Royal is one)

http://www.biospace.com/News/pfizer-to-shut-down-four-hospira-distribution/429862

steddyeddy · 14-11-2016 02:29PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

not as much as losing patents does. They also seem to be closing their Hospira plants (of which Park Royal is one)

http://www.biospace.com/News/pfizer-to-shut-down-four-hospira-distribution/429862

The loss of patents will affect them no matter what country they reside in. The fact that they are based on Britain will likely lead to increased costs on all chemical reagents and limit access to talented EU scientists. That situation is unique to Britain.

Fratton Fred · 14-11-2016 02:50PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The loss of patents will affect them no matter what country they reside in. The fact that they are based on Britain will likely lead to increased costs on all chemical reagents and limit access to talented EU scientists. That situation is unique to Britain.

Eddy, stick to the test tubes and leave the doom and gloom to someone else.

Pfizer is a huge global company, going through a lot of restructuring. They are closing their Park Royal plant, as it appears they are a lot of their other Hospira plants. They are also consolidating distribution to their european hub in Belgium.

This would happen regardless of the outcome of the Brexit vote.

Capt'n Midnight · 14-11-2016 07:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Judging by the lack of a dive in the USD after the result so far (unlike the Pound that was knocked for six) that's unlikely due to the USD's position as the world's reserve currency.

The Euro is also used. The pound is slowly loosing it's reserve currency status. Some of that money will be converted into Dollars.

If oil stops being traded in Dollars that'll hurt. Also lots of dollar bills are held outside the US. If the dollar looks like loosing reserve status they could do like India and change the notes and leave a lot of foreigners high and dry.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-11-2016 01:30AM

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-37966135

Supreme Court's Lord Kerr says justices will apply the law in Brexit case, not their personal views

What ?
Does this mean they haven't been doing this all along :eek:

UK to renew Europol membership
So it's out of the EU and now into Europol - the government don't know if they are coming or going on #Brexit

A Downing Street source said UKIP's Nigel Farage would not have a role in building UK links with Donald Trump.

Muahahaha · 15-11-2016 01:45AM

Yet another loltastic title, well done whoever is the puppetmaster

catbear · 15-11-2016 01:47AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Judging by the lack of a dive in the USD after the result so far (unlike the Pound that was knocked for six) that's unlikely due to the USD's position as the world's reserve currency.

The Euro is also used. The pound is slowly loosing it's reserve currency status. Some of that money will be converted into Dollars.

If oil stops being traded in Dollars that'll hurt. Also lots of dollar bills are held outside the US. If the dollar looks like loosing reserve status they could do like India and change the notes and leave a lot of foreigners high and dry.

If the USD changed its currency issue theyd only isolate themselves further. Having hosted the global currency for so long it seems they forget that the global currency status can desert them.

VinLieger · 15-11-2016 08:43AM

Hilarious, a leaked UK government memo says 'there is no plan' for Brexit

http://jrnl.ie/3082326

Now im sure this will be passed off as the grand strategy but at this stage there should be at least some small evidence of a plan if at least to stop the speculation and market uncertainty

Peregrinus · 15-11-2016 09:07AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Hilarious, a leaked UK government memo says 'there is no plan' for Brexit

http://jrnl.ie/3082326

Now im sure this will be passed off as the grand strategy but at this stage there should be at least some small evidence of a plan if at least to stop the speculation and market uncertainty

It's a truism in the chanceries of Europe that the country that has done the least amount of Brexit planning is the UK. They'd never have dreamed for a moment of holding a referendum if they though it might pass and in Whitehall they coulnd't admit to themselves, even for a moment, that it might pass. Hence, there was no need for Brexit planning. Other EU countries, unconstrained by such thoughts, felt obliged as a matter of prudence to do some Brexit analysis, modelling and planning ahead of the referendum. Iveagh House did more thinking about this than the Foreign Office did.

The British are now scrabbling to catch up and, if possible, to reclaim the initiative from Farage & Co. One of the principal reasons that May doesn't want to put her plans before Parliament is that it will reveal how woefully incomplete they are. Another is that moving from incomplete plans to complete plans will probably be quicker if it's done behind closed doors in Whitehall rather than in public in Westminster.

15-11-2016 10:17PM

Google still think that the UK is a good place to do business.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37988095
Google is to open a new headquarters building in London which could see 3,000 new jobs created by 2020.
The news comes as a major boost to Britain's technology sector.
Sundar Pichai, the chief executive of Google, told the BBC that the UK was still an attractive place to do business.
He said open borders and free movement for skilled migrants were "absolutely" important to the success of the technology sector in the UK.
It was Mr Pichai's first European broadcast interview since he became chief executive last year.

Sounds like he's trying to influence the immigration policies of the UK, Britain is large enough to have the skilled staff to work in these places.

Christy42 · 15-11-2016 11:41PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Google still think that the UK is a good place to do business.

Sounds like he's trying to influence the immigration policies of the UK, Britain is large enough to have the skilled staff to work in these places.

Not if multiple companies are in competition with each other for a very limited pool of workers. Easier to set up shop elsewhere where you get a wider choice of skilled workers from across the world (though obviously the majority will end up being from where you are based as not everyone wants to move for work). Heck abroad you will still get some of those UK skilled workers coming over.

Seems rather conditional on the freedom of movement thing. I.e. in the EU in all but name.

15-11-2016 11:59PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Not if multiple companies are in competition with each other for a very limited pool of workers. Easier to set up shop elsewhere where you get a wider choice of skilled workers from across the world (though obviously the majority will end up being from where you are based as not everyone wants to move for work). Heck abroad you will still get some of those UK skilled workers coming over.

Seems rather conditional on the freedom of movement thing. I.e. in the EU in all but name.

With a population of some 60 million or thereabouts, there shouldn't really be a problem in finding the right people. But in reality those multinational companies want the cheapest workers.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2016 12:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

With a population of some 60 million or thereabouts, there shouldn't really be a problem in finding the right people. But in reality those multinational companies want the cheapest workers.

I would imagine a company like goog!e would want workers from a!l over the region it is serving. Europe.

16-11-2016 12:18AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I would imagine a company like goog!e would want workers from a!l over the region it is serving. Europe.

Companies like Google have "headquarters" all over the place, a headquarters serving just the UK will work well just as the one in Dublin or paris, etc...

It's important to remember just how many people there are in a country with a population of around 60 million, a headquarters serving a country of 60 million with a staff of 3000 is very efficient.
I believe that this move is also a response to the anti globalisation backlash that is occurring around the world at the moment, they're also hedging their bets as well if countries start taxing on foreign earnings.

Grayson · 16-11-2016 01:22AM

Deleted User wrote: »

With a population of some 60 million or thereabouts, there shouldn't really be a problem in finding the right people. But in reality those multinational companies want the cheapest workers.

Those multi nationals pay a fortune. Google especially.

Hell even amazon pay it's tech staff loads. They pay warehouse staff crap with minimum wage and zero hours contract but the tech jobs are really good.

FrancieBrady · 16-11-2016 09:46AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Companies like Google have "headquarters" all over the place, a headquarters serving just the UK will work well just as the one in Dublin or paris, etc...

It's important to remember just how many people there are in a country with a population of around 60 million, a headquarters serving a country of 60 million with a staff of 3000 is very efficient.
I believe that this move is also a response to the anti globalisation backlash that is occurring around the world at the moment, they're also hedging their bets as well if countries start taxing on foreign earnings.

Google UK doesn't just work in the UK, it's a pan European/World company and would need an international staff to conduct some of their activities.
Can you show us how much 'cheap labour' they use by the way?

Christy42 · 16-11-2016 10:04AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With a population of some 60 million or thereabouts, there shouldn't really be a problem in finding the right people. But in reality those multinational companies want the cheapest workers.

There are loads of those companies from Facebook, to Apple, to Trading companies. They tend to pay very well as is but given how high their standards tend to be they want as big a pool as possible to ensure the best as opposed to the cheapest. At least for those high skill jobs, other fields may vary.

Junkyard Tom · 17-11-2016 02:13AM

UK Faces £100Bn budget hole.

Bad forecast and they haven't even left the EU yet.

Peregrinus · 17-11-2016 02:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Companies like Google have "headquarters" all over the place, a headquarters serving just the UK will work well just as the one in Dublin or paris, etc...

It's important to remember just how many people there are in a country with a population of around 60 million, a headquarters serving a country of 60 million with a staff of 3000 is very efficient.
I believe that this move is also a response to the anti globalisation backlash that is occurring around the world at the moment, they're also hedging their bets as well if countries start taxing on foreign earnings.

A company like Google is interesting, but it's not typical.

Google's offices outside the US serve one, or both, of two functions:

(A) Selling advertising. This is where Google gets its revenue from, remember, and a large part of their workforce are engaged in the humdrum but highly revenue-generating task of selling advertising. And salespeople really do need to be located in the markets they are selling in, so Google will always have sales offices in many countries. The sales staff that Google employ in the UK are selling advertising to UK customers. They won't be affectged by Brexit.

(Not directly affected, that is. There could be an indirect effect, obviously, if as a result of Brexit the British economy booms or slumps. Either would change the amount of advertising being sold, and could affect the numbers of sales staff that Google employs.)

(B) Software writing/development/engineering. Google is committed to hiring and retaining the best software brains. And, since there's no reason to think that all the best brains are in the US or wish to go there, that means developing major software hubs all over the world. As long as the UK produces bright software brains in sufficient numbers, Google will have a reason to run a software hub in London. Brexit won't affect this.

But, as I say, Google is untypical. Brexit won't affect its interest in developing software in the UK because all the software that Google develops in the UK belongs to Google, a US corporation, and ultimate that terms under which the sale or licensing of this software goes on will depend on the US's trading relationships, free trade agreements, etc, not on Britain's. The fact that the software was developed in the UK (or anywhere else) is irrelevant. Hence the Brexit doesn't affect the terms on which Google can sell or license its products worldwide.

But it could affect a British software developer. At the moment if I develop software in the UK, I can licence that software throughout the EU, and throughout any countries with which the EU has an appropriate trade agreement, and collect royalties on it, and remit them to the UK, without suffering any special taxes, levies, barriers to trade, etc. That won't necessarily be true after Brexit; it will depend on what replacement trading relationships the UK puts in place.

steddyeddy · 17-11-2016 01:55PM

It's not looking good. TBH I think this is a good thing. There's too many people assuming Brexit isn't going to be a lose lose scenario for the UK.

Brexit blamed for £100 billion budget black hole
Weak growth and big fall in sterling after EU vote mean government economic targets likely to be scrapped

ritain faces a £100 billion black hole in its finances because of Brexit, Chancellor Philip Hammond will reportedly tell MPs in next week’s Autumn Statement.

Official forecasts produced by the Office for Budget Responsibility suggest low tax revenues, slower growth and reduced investment after Britain's vote to leave the EU mean the UK’s budget deficit will soar in the next five years, according to reports in the Financial Times.

Mr Hammond’s predecessor as chancellor, George Osborne, had promised the UK would be in surplus by 2019-20 and made this a core part of his economic policy. But a combination of Brexit, weak growth and recent government pledges to scrap or delay some planned spending reductions mean this is now almost certain to be missed.

Will the Autumn Statement tackle the plight of benefit claimants?
Instead, the UK is on course to be running a significant deficit in 2019-20 – and things are likely to get worse still. New forecasts are believed to show the gap between the borrowing estimates outlined in last year’s Budget and the actual borrowing now required getting bigger every year.

Despite the negative outlook, Mr Hammond is still expected to announce new tax cuts for what ministers are calling ‘JAMs’ - people who are “just about managing”.

The Conservatives' 2015 manifesto committed the government to increasing the tax free allowance to £12,500, raising the 40p income tax threshold to £50,000 and introducing a new law to ensure nobody working 30 hours on the Minimum Wage pays income tax. These changes are expected to cost around £6 billion, while a cut to inheritance tax will cost another £1 billion.

The manifesto also ruled out raising VAT, Income Tax or National Insurance – limiting Mr Hammond’s option of using tax rises to fill the budget black hole.

Independent economic forecasts also paint a negative picture. The Institute for Fiscal Studies warned low growth and rising inflation caused by a fall in the value of sterling after Brexit mean trouble ahead for the UK economy.

Dyr · 17-11-2016 02:18PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's not looking good. TBH I think this is a good thing. There's too many people assuming Brexit isn't going to be a lose lose scenario for the UK.

And the Euros still want paying too:

http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-could-owe-eu-up-to-e65-billion-after-brexit-theresa-may-juncker-plan/

catbear · 17-11-2016 03:04PM

Stop the press, looks like we're leaving too!
http://imgur.com/a/pZwJT

Christy42 · 17-11-2016 03:10PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

In a surprise to no one UKIP abused massive amounts of funds in the Brexit referendum. I hope paying this back destroys them financially.

Dyr · 17-11-2016 03:15PM

catbear wrote: »

Stop the press, looks like we're leaving too!
http://imgur.com/a/pZwJT

Well they couldn't leave norn iron where it was because that would be conceding a 32 county socialist republic to us micks :eek:

steddyeddy · 18-11-2016 08:00AM

Turns out Ukip wrongly spent 450K on backing a leave vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

Fratton Fred · 18-11-2016 02:28PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Turns out Ukip wrongly spent 450K on backing a leave vote.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-ukip-eu-money-misspending-eu-referendum-campaign-a7422471.html

that's peanuts. If I had my way, I'd also make UKIP pay £350m a week in to the NHS, out of their own money

20-11-2016 03:25PM

While the heading on Tony Connolly's piece on RTÉ at first appears a bit melodramatic, having read it it's not. If you read one piece about Brexit's impact on Ireland this should be it:

Brexit: the hidden nightmares

Our fisheries industry is in substantial trouble - have a look at the statistics about where the catch is landed and so forth (ironically for all the talk about Brexit being good for the British fishing industry, a massive amount of the Scottish fishing industry is owned by Norwegians, who are not in the EU). Furthermore, from reading Connolly it seems like the structure of the Irish farming industry is a nightmare of epic proportions: it is an all-Ireland industry that is going to be put bunoscionn by these jingoists. Take this:

Nearly all the milk produced in Northern Ireland is processed in the Republic, to be sold on or sent back to Northern Ireland. Likewise, pigs in the Republic are sent north for slaughter.

How will that system work when the Republic is subject to single market, animal health and phyto-santiary rules and Northern Ireland isn’t?

In terms of energy, things could be even worse:

'Ireland is heavily dependent on the UK for energy and it is deeply enmeshed in its grid via the north-south and east-west interconnectors.... With the UK out of the EU’s energy market Brussels could also impose tariffs on British energy, and those tariffs would be a significant hit on Ireland and the cost of Irish energy bills.'

Again, because of these unreconciled-to-end-of-Empire sorts Ireland is going to be fúcked for being obtuse enough to put all our eggs in the one basket that belongs to our volatile, temperamental jingoistic neighbour. Admittedly on balance the North is going to suffer more (withdrawal of EU funds, even greater dependency on the 26 Counties), but if the fúcktards over in Britain opt for their beloved "hard border", let's hope the EU punishes them as much as the Irish are going to be punished by these British decisions. Repay economic terrorism with economic terrorism and that will soften their jingoistic cough quick sharp. If they choose not to be in the club, they should lose all benefits of club membership. End of.

Lastly, we are collectively kidding ourselves if we think there will not be a hard border re-erected in our country again. It is a political priority in Britain to keep eastern European migrant labour out; they are not going to allow them in through Ireland. From the EU perspective they will need a border at the edge of the EU as a matter of principle. What might be more disconcerting from a unionist perspective is if there's a much harder political border between the North and Britain, which is politically very probable indeed.

Brexit: The Last Stand (No name calling)

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