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Tractor Advice

  • 17-11-2016 10:03AM
    #1
    DanielGibbons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    I'm looking for a bit of advice on a 6 cylinder tractor, with a decent cab.

    I also posted here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057670793

    Basic criteria:
    Decent Cab
    Power not critical, just needs a good lift/hydraulics to handle a double bale lifter
    Not overly clumsy for around the yard
    Budget less then €10k

    So far suggestions include:
    Fiat F series (don't know an awful lot about these)
    Case IH 956XL
    MF 3000 series (possible electrical/gearbox trouble?)
    John Deere 3350/3050 (would be hard to find within budget - also not too many local so would be hesitant regarding getting repairs in future)

    Have you guys any others to suggest?

    Or have you any advise/suggestions on what's above?

    Thanks a million folks :)
    Daniel


Comments

  • #2
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,106 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    DanielGibbons wrote: »
    Hi Folks,

    I'm looking for a bit of advice on a 6 cylinder tractor, with a decent cab.

    I also posted here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057670793

    Basic criteria:
    Decent Cab
    Power not critical, just needs a good lift/hydraulics to handle a double bale lifter
    Not overly clumsy for around the yard
    Budget less then €10k

    So far suggestions include:
    Fiat F series (don't know an awful lot about these)
    Case IH 956XL
    MF 3000 series (possible electrical/gearbox trouble?)
    John Deere 3350/3050 (would be hard to find within budget - also not too many local so would be hesitant regarding getting repairs in future)

    Have you guys any others to suggest?

    Or have you any advise/suggestions on what's above?

    Thanks a million folks :)
    Daniel

    As a matter of interest If power is not an issue why do you want a six cylinder. Six cylinder are not great as yard tractors as less manoeuvrable than 4cylinders

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #3
    DanielGibbons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭DanielGibbons


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    As a matter of interest If power is not an issue why do you want a six cylinder. Six cylinder are not great as yard tractors as less manoeuvrable than 4cylinders

    Sorry, I should have been clear.

    The ~100hp most 6 cylinder tractors would have is enough.

    Would like a 6 cylinder to handle a double bale lifter.
    Also, the 6 cylinder versions seem to make less money due to lesser demand.

    We already have a 390 2wd, that'll take care of most of the tight yard work!


  • #4
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Fiat F series. Not much experience of these but have only heard good things about them.

    Case IH 956XL. Again not much experience but are these the ones with the awkward gear shifts.

    MF 3000 series. I'm usually an MF fan. But not so keen on these. Avoid 32 speed gearboxes like the plague. 16 speed models are more reliable. Comfortable tractor to drive if it's working right. Rust can be an issue. Look around under cab for any signs of wiring issues or poor wiring repairs.


    John Deere 3350/3050. Like you said too expensive for your needs.

    But like Bass said why the need for 6 cylinder if not power?
    I've a 698T 4wd which can comfortably lift 2 silage bales on the back. If your bales are especially heavy you can always add weights to the front. (Not recommending the 698 if you have 10k to spend there are much nicer tractors out there for that budget)

    MF 398 is a good option for around yards but is a little over priced for its years. The 398 has the same back-end as the 399. Parts availability is great and very simple machine to work on. Older ones are starting to drop in price but may have higher hours.


  • #5
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭emaherx


    DanielGibbons wrote: »
    Sorry, I should have been clear.

    The ~100hp most 6 cylinder tractors would have is enough.

    Would like a 6 cylinder to handle a double bale lifter.
    Also, the 6 cylinder versions seem to make less money due to lesser demand.

    We already have a 390 2wd, that'll take care of most of the tight yard work!

    I hadn't seen this reply when I gave the above answer.


  • #6
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,106 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    DanielGibbons wrote: »
    Sorry, I should have been clear.

    The ~100hp most 6 cylinder tractors would have is enough.

    Would like a 6 cylinder to handle a double bale lifter.
    Also, the 6 cylinder versions seem to make less money due to lesser demand.

    We already have a 390 2wd, that'll take care of most of the tight yard work!

    I have a Ford 6610 that can lift two bales at the rear. Most 80+ HP tractors can do that it is only a matter of counterbalancing the front with a loader or weights. I know a few lads that have Case 110 MX that fly carrying bales. 6 cylinders tend to be heavy on diesel. Not really an issue at present but who knows down the line.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #7
    DanielGibbons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭DanielGibbons


    emaherx wrote: »
    Fiat F series. Not much experience of these but have only heard good things about them.

    Case IH 956XL. Again not much experience but are these the ones with the awkward gear shifts.

    MF 3000 series. I'm usually an MF fan. But not so keen on these. Avoid 32 speed gearboxes like the plague. 16 speed models are more reliable. Comfortable tractor to drive if it's working right. Rust can be an issue. Look around under cab for any signs of wiring issues or poor wiring repairs.


    John Deere 3350/3050. Like you said too expensive for your needs.

    But like Bass said why the need for 6 cylinder if not power?
    I've a 698T 4wd which can comfortably lift 2 silage bales on the back. If your bales are especially heavy you can always add weights to the front. (Not recommending the 698 if you have 10k to spend there are much nicer tractors out there for that budget)

    MF 398 is a good option for around yards but is a little over priced for its years. The 398 has the same back-end as the 399. Parts availability is great and very simple machine to work on. Older ones are starting to drop in price but may have higher hours.
    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    I have a Ford 6610 that can lift two bales at the rear. Most 80+ HP tractors can do that it is only a matter of counterbalancing the front with a loader or weights. I know a few lads that have Case 110 MX that fly carrying bales. 6 cylinders tend to be heavy on diesel. Not really an issue at present but who knows down the line.

    Thanks to both of you for your input.

    Our contractor makes VERY heavy, tight bales.
    We had a JD 6130 last summer, she hadn't a hope! As soon as you'd start letting the clutch off she was nose in the air!

    I was thinking 6 cylinder, due to the heavier back ends.
    To me, 2 bales seems like major stress on a 4 cylinder machine.

    Mind you, a 398 has a 399 back end, so that could be a runner!
    Hard to find within budget though!


  • #8
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    for under 10k

    JD3050 are good
    you might get a 399 or 7840/7740

    how about a same 100.6 or 100.4 Probably get one for 10k


  • #9
    Never wrestle with pigs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭Never wrestle with pigs


    To me this looks like allot of tractor for that money. Say you get it for €6800, put €1000 into it doing a few bits you have a nice machine for €8000.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-international-956-xl/13655856


  • #10
    kay 9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭kay 9


    https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/tractors/13885017 keenly priced and seems a clean tractor for the money.


  • #11
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,106 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    DanielGibbons wrote: »
    Thanks to both of you for your input.

    Our contractor makes VERY heavy, tight bales.
    We had a JD 6130 last summer, she hadn't a hope! As soon as you'd start letting the clutch off she was nose in the air!

    I was thinking 6 cylinder, due to the heavier back ends.
    To me, 2 bales seems like major stress on a 4 cylinder machine.

    Mind you, a 398 has a 399 back end, so that could be a runner!
    Hard to find within budget though!

    Had she a weigh box or a loader on the front. The lifting of a tractor is down to the power of the hydrulic pumps. After that it is a stability issue and weights on front end is what is needed if the tractor is strong enough to lift the bales.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #12
    DanielGibbons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭DanielGibbons


    lakill Farm wrote: »
    for under 10k

    JD3050 are good
    you might get a 399 or 7840/7740

    how about a same 100.6 or 100.4 Probably get one for 10k

    Thought of all those, fits the criteria except budget!
    Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »
    To me this looks like allot of tractor for that money. Say you get it for €6800, put €1000 into it doing a few bits you have a nice machine for €8000.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/case-international-956-xl/13655856

    Looks like good value, but the early 956XLs had no front wheel braking, 40k or electric 4wd engagement. Different front axle means they're clumsier around the yard. Would go for a newer one within budget I think.
    kay 9 wrote: »
    https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/tractors/13885017 keenly priced and seems a clean tractor for the money.

    I was actually talking to that guy, it seems to be nice but has 11k hours and is far away... I'm in the west!
    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Had she a weigh box or a loader on the front. The lifting of a tractor is down to the power of the hydrulic pumps. After that it is a stability issue and weights on front end is what is needed if the tractor is strong enough to lift the bales.

    No,it had neither, maybe you're right...
    Seems to be good value in bigger wagons though!


  • #13
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Your gonna need weights either way, have a 7840 here and if no weights on she'll be pointing for the sky with two fusions bales on the back. Wouldn't limit search to 6 cylinder just for that, anything with a good lift and weights up front should do


  • #14
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,106 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    DanielGibbons wrote: »

    Seems to be good value in bigger wagons though!


    There are a few reasons for that. Bigger 6 cylinder tractors drink more diesel. They cost more to maintain. There are not as maneuverable in yards. Finally a lot of them will have a lot of hard work done.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #15
    larthehar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭larthehar


    http://www.tractordata.com/

    A handy website just to reference for lift capacities and some if them have fuel consumption..
    If you are only going to be using the tractor for light work a 4cyl should suffice.. 100hp 6 pots are really only handy for torque for a lot of road work..
    But if you are a tractor nut.. sure why not!


  • #16
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    you should be able to get a same 100.4 or lambourgini 1050 (same tractor)
    or same 100.6 or lambo 1060 (6 pot version) for 10k


    I had a 1050 lambo with pan mixer full on back end (3.5t) and 360kg weights up front and managed. 2 bales would be 2t plus 150/200kg for the bale carrier


  • #17
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    The jd ye had last year needed weights and it'd have managed no bother. Ideally what ya want is a a tractor with a 3000kg+ lift capacity.

    First off the 56 series ih tractors have the gears on the conventional right hand side

    A 4wd 856xl would be what I'd recommend heavy-duty back-end like it's 6 pot brothers but much more compact and frugal. Some had an assistor ram as extra which boosted the lift capacity to 4000kg+ but what ya need is a full weight set 2-300kg at least. 2wd 956xl are great value and fast on the road hard enough found though. 30k 4wd variants are good value but the 40k ones tend to be dear.

    4wd and 40k doesn't come cheap and plenty that are cheap have done a lot of work and may have expensive problems looming in the future.

    for the average man a 30k+ box is fine, lots of cleaner tractors about and many 2wd options do as good as 40k anyways late model zetor 8011 springs to mind as one such tractor.

    Whatever ya get it'll need weights or a loader to keep the nose down.


  • #18
    DanielGibbons
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭DanielGibbons


    Hi folks, sorry for the delay getting back to this.

    Thanks a million for all the suggestions. It's really appreciated!

    The fact that a 6 cylinder is still going to need weights or a loader to keep the nose down, is changing my mind a little.

    I'll keep an open mind on it for the moment!


  • #19
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    selectamatic wrote: »


    for the average man a 30k+ box is fine, lots of cleaner tractors about and many 2wd options do as good as 40k anyways late model zetor 8011 springs to mind as one such tractor.

    Whatever ya get it'll need weights or a loader to keep the nose down.

    30k is a nightmare for everyone unless the tractor is only based in a yard


  • #20
    mythos110
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭mythos110


    I owned a Fiat F130 for a few years. Great tractor but make sure to look for rust and definitely make sure to only look at the mechanical lift versions. A F100 would be more than enough for you. Mine was mechanical and never gave trouble. Had a 100-90 a number of years ago - also a great tractor except for the rust!

    Owned a JD 3650 in the past also. Hydraulics are a major issue with the 50 series JD and are expensive to repair. Also linkages/selectors in the gearbox gave trouble on our one. The 6400/6410 JD were a mighty machine afaik and would be worth considering.

    Depends what you mean by a "good cab". You can probably get a late 90's/ early 00's Renault with cab suspension for small money but the 106/54(90's) / Temis 610 (00's) has forward opening doors and cumbersome levers which aren't to everybody's taste. The 106/54 has a MWM (Fendt) engine and are misers on diesel for a 6cyl apparently. I wouldn't touch the Ares.

    If it was me, I'd be looking towards a Valtra 6550/6650/8050. Drove a good few for contractors in the past and they are the closest thing to bullet proof that I have seen, although they do rightly fetch a good price on the 2nd hand market


  • #21
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    mythos110 wrote: »
    If it was me, I'd be looking towards a Valtra 6550/6650/8050. Drove a good few for contractors in the past and they are the closest thing to bullet proof that I have seen, although they do rightly fetch a good price on the 2nd hand market


    Minimum 15k for a rough 8050 valmet


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  • #22
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    lakill Farm wrote: »
    30k is a nightmare for everyone unless the tractor is only based in a yard

    Is it though?
    Flat stick with say 3 fusion bales on board
    (2 on a double handler and 1 on the loader) is only mindless carry on and woeful abuse on a machine.

    When ya add it all up the difference in time is negligible unless 50kph or there abouts is achievable which it is on some "40k" tractors
    (Ford 7840 etc.)

    Some 30k tractors can tip along nicely I've a mk1 885xl 4wd on 16.9r34 tyres and can do 36kph flat out on the level if I scaled up to a decent profile 38" setup and spec'd up the front accordingly I'd be dam near 40kph and that's with an old 4wd 30k tractor much easier get road speed out of a 2wd.

    Cheap stamped 40kph tractors from factory are generally rough and overpriced when their overall condition are taken into account. At least that's my experience of the matter.

    I'd rather have a clean 30k yoke with a nice chunk of change left from a €10,000 budget than blow all of my budget on a tractor that just creeps into budget due to having high hours and a patchy history.


  • #23
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,621 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    lakill Farm wrote: »
    30k is a nightmare for everyone unless the tractor is only based in a yard
    I had a tractor with a 30k box and used regularly get to 37kph without a load.

    I changed to a 40k box and she tops out at 42.3kph so not so much difference really.


  • #24
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    :eek: ok ok lads. 30K is the way forward:D


  • #25
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    lakill Farm wrote: »
    :eek: ok ok lads. 30K is the way forward:D

    Researching info regarding specific tractor models is the way forward ;)

    some are "fast" yet some are not, some have a big lift capacity some do not etc.


  • #26
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    selectamatic wrote: »
    Researching info regarding specific tractor models is the way forward ;)

    some are "fast" yet some are not, some have a big lift capacity some do not etc.

    I have a cx105 and she is nippy enough on the road. But I do lots of roadwork


  • #27
    selectamatic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,249 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    lakill Farm wrote: »
    I have a cx105 and she is nippy enough on the road. But I do lots of roadwork

    They're supposed to a decent machine all round for sure. Nice and compact too.

    By in large most half modern 40k tractors are nippy enough it's really in older 70's and 80's machines that research and test drives need to be undertaken as some are painfully slow where as some are grand that said it's all down to what the tractor will be used for.


  • #28
    MFdaveIreland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 588 ✭✭✭MFdaveIreland


    if I can put my 2 cents worth,
    I understand the idea of a 6cyl for mainly two reasons, 1) longer wheel based, and therefore greater leverage for rear mounted loads, 2) better torque and grunt for pulling,
    as said most 6cyls will have been the big tractor on mens farms and been treated like Shee-ite.
    mf 3120/ 3125 would be more than capable, ignorant pigs to navigate a tight yard though like most 6 cyl.
    john deere 3050 big yoke, very long too, need for weights is less with more counter balance,
    2 bales on a 4cylinder would be rough enough if theyre mchales


  • #29
    Tomjim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Tomjim


    got a case 844 up the north recently was 8.5 K euro

    She clean 4 wd and 40 k box

    got a loader and brackets for 2.5k euro on top


  • #30
    mythos110
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭mythos110


    MFdaveIreland wrote: »
    if I can put my 2 cents worth,
    I understand the idea of a 6cyl for mainly two reasons, 1) longer wheel based, and therefore greater leverage for rear mounted loads, 2) better torque and grunt for pulling,
    as said most 6cyls will have been the big tractor on mens farms and been treated like Shee-ite.
    mf 3120/ 3125 would be more than capable, ignorant pigs to navigate a tight yard though like most 6 cyl.
    john deere 3050 big yoke, very long too, need for weights is less with more counter balance,
    2 bales on a 4cylinder would be rough enough if theyre mchales

    50 series John deere just look long because the cab is so far back. Pulled one side by side with a 100-90 fiat and the wheel base is almost identical! Still wouldn't buy another one though!


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  • #31
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,106 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    MFdaveIreland wrote: »
    if I can put my 2 cents worth,
    I understand the idea of a 6cyl for mainly two reasons, 1) longer wheel based, and therefore greater leverage for rear mounted loads, 2) better torque and grunt for pulling,
    as said most 6cyls will have been the big tractor on mens farms and been treated like Shee-ite.
    mf 3120/ 3125 would be more than capable, ignorant pigs to navigate a tight yard though like most 6 cyl.
    john deere 3050 big yoke, very long too, need for weights is less with more counter balance,
    2 bales on a 4cylinder would be rough enough if theyre mchales

    The real issue is it profitable to be buying tractors for one or two specific jobs. Would you be better off getting a bale trailer like this
    https://www.donedeal.ie/silagetrailers-for-sale/bale-trailers/13989726
    or splashing out on second hand one of these or a cheap version of this one.
    https://www.donedeal.ie/silagetrailers-for-sale/super-move-bale-transporter/12982159

    6 cylinder tractors are not really suitable for yard work. Doing bales are a few days work/year. So you are getting a tractor for one specific purpose taht is not really suited to the rest of your farmwork profile.

    Saw this with a lad boughta 2.2K gallon slurry tanker. He then had to upgarde tractor from 90HP to 120HP. Now he thinks he would have been better off staying with the contractor that was doing his slurry. He is burning a little bit more diesel at every other job the tractor has to do. It is a bit more awkard around the yard. Tanker is sitting in the yard doing nothing 355 days/year.

    Maybe it would pay better to let a contractors bring in the bales.

    Slava Ukrainii



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