Louise O Neill on rape culture.

orubiru · 17-11-2016 05:02PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Or cross my mind to control what he's wearing doing interviews. What the f@ck has that got to do with anything?

Surely it would have some kind of bearing on credibility?

I'm not buying that. Clearly if someone is going to tackle a serious and sensitive subject then they have to behave appropriately.

This is not because inappropriate dress would invalidate the points they are making. It's because provocative dress, or an antagonistic attitude regarding dress, will distract from the valid points.

I get the concept of "Tone Policing" but the more you try to antagonise or provoke people the less likely they are to listen to your point of view.

That seems to be the basic problem here right? People understand that rape is bad but generalising, antagonising and provoking is unlikely to nurture progress.

mzungu · 17-11-2016 05:15PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Or cross my mind to control what he's wearing doing interviews. What the f@ck has that got to do with anything?

From my reading of the post you quoted, it was making the point that if a male author was conducting an interview on a delicate matter, then they would be expected to dress according to the social etiquette for the given situation.

For example, if Ryan Tubridy was conducting an interview tomorrow on the LLS with the mother or father of somebody who had been murdered. What do you think would happen, or be said, if he conducted the interview wearing bermudas and a really loud Hawaiian shirt? Most likely it would raise the odd comment or two to say the least.

In certain situations, it is automatically expected that a standard of dress etiquette will be adhered to. That was my reading of what was meant and I am open to correction by the poster if I misread it.

givyjoe · 17-11-2016 05:19PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Ridiculous.

That is pathetic. If a man was gang raped it would not cross my mind to ask what he was wearing.

Do you ever think it is some men's archaic minds that need changing. Again, no one had the right to control what another human being wears.

So tell me, would your HR Department have a problem with you waltzing in to work wearing a bet on, short short mini skirt, knee high boots and a see through top and bra?

There is appropriate dress for all sorts of occasions, including presenting a TV show or documentary etc.

Plenty of women here have already said that her choice of clothing was incorrect, distracting or something to that effect (not quoting, just cant remember exactly).

No need to be so aggressive.

Mortpourvelo · 17-11-2016 05:22PM

givyjoe wrote: »

So tell me, would your HR Department have a problem with you waltzing in to work wearing a bet on, short short mini skirt, knee high boots and a see through top and bra?

There is appropriate dress for all sorts of occasions, including presenting a TV show or documentary etc.

Plenty of women here have already said that her choice of clothing was incorrect, distracting or something to that effect (not quoting, just cant remember exactly).

No need to be so aggressive.

The more I read certain posters on here, the more I am minded to think of Viz's "Millie Tant".

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 05:25PM

givyjoe wrote: »

So tell me, would your HR Department have a problem with you waltzing in to work wearing a bet on, short short mini skirt, knee high boots and a see through top and bra?

There is appropriate dress for all sorts of occasions, including presenting a TV show or documentary etc.

Plenty of women here have already said that her choice of clothing was incorrect, distracting or something to that effect (not quoting, just cant remember exactly).

No need to be so aggressive.

Show me the 'plenty of women'.

Mortpourvelo · 17-11-2016 05:29PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Show me the 'plenty of women'.

Here's one.

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 05:30PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

The more I read certain posters on here, the more I am minded to think of Viz's "Millie Tant".

Could you perhaps engage with my posts, instead of calling me a militant feminist?

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 05:31PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Here's one.

Great. Let's discuss. You think it's inappropriate what she's wearing?

givyjoe · 17-11-2016 05:34PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Show me the 'plenty of women'.

Is that all you can say? Jesus christ, are you literally just here to pick fights?

Care to actually answer my question on your place of work? Are you allowed to wear whatever the hell you want? FYI HR Departments are predominantly populated with women and are of course in a position to be the ones dictating the dress code (my own place of work included).

kunst nugget · 17-11-2016 05:43PM

In my office, all the woman have to wear burqas while I swan around naked except for assless chaps and covered in baby oil. It's great being a fella!

Zulu · 17-11-2016 05:55PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Do you ever think it is some men's archaic minds that need changing.

'cause only men could possibly hold such opinions?

No woman ever, eh??

Zulu · 17-11-2016 05:56PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

In my office, all the woman have to wear burqas while I swan around naked except for assless chaps and covered in baby oil. It's great being a fella!

Explains the pay gap at least

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 06:02PM

Zulu wrote: »

'cause only men could possibly hold such opinions?

No woman ever, eh??

Why is it always discussed about women dressing too provocatively. I have never ever heard anyone say about men dressing too provocatively.

Its such a load of controlling bullsh*t.

kunst nugget · 17-11-2016 06:03PM

Zulu wrote: »

'cause only men could possibly hold such opinions?

No woman ever, eh??

When women hold those opinions, it's because of internalised misogyny so it's still men's fault.

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 06:05PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

My point - badly made I grant you - is that should said woman claim to have been raped by the straddlee, then I would not believe it for a second.

I never said anything about a third party.

However, look at the sort on the likes of Geordie Shore and the Valleys etc. You see them in court all poshed up crying and you're not gonna believe a word.

Well that's a very dangerous thought.

So if a girl is on the likes of Geordie shore, where they show people having sex, you wouldn't believe if she was raped?

Jesus Christ almighty, this board gets worse.

Zulu · 17-11-2016 06:07PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why is it always discussed about women dressing too provocatively.

Because womens fashion is more inclined to be provocative?

I have never ever heard anyone say about men dressing too provocatively.

I can't ever remember seeing a man rock up to the Oscars in a see through tux, or a suit with a slit upto the ball-sack.

I'm sure such items of apparel exist, so I must be wrong.

Its such a load of controlling bullsh*t.

Right on. Goddamn patriarchy oppressing the common women. Again. Effin fascists.

kunst nugget · 17-11-2016 06:08PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why is it always discussed about women dressing too provocatively. I have never ever heard anyone say about men dressing too provocatively.

Its such a load of controlling bullsh*t.

I tried dressing provocatively once by wearing skin tight jeans that accentuated the shape of my penis and ballsac while giving my buns of steel a firm lift.

People still won't like me in the eye. Damned patriarchy…

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 06:15PM

Zulu wrote: »

Because womens fashion is more inclined to be provocative?
I can't ever remember seeing a man rock up to the Oscars in a see through tux, or a suit with a slit upto the ball-sack.

I'm sure such items of apparel exist, so I must be wrong.

Right on. Goddamn patriarchy oppressing the common women. Again. Effin fascists.

What's it got to do with you if what she's wearing is provocative?

'I'm turned on, so woman must cover up!'

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-11-2016 06:16PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

When women hold those opinions, it's because of internalised misogyny so it's still men's fault.

Which ironically is incredibly sexist.

Such a theory suggests that all women lack the required mental capacity for independent thought and critical thinking.

givyjoe · 17-11-2016 06:18PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What's it got to do with you if what she's wearing is provocative?

'I'm turned on, so woman must cover up!'

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

I dont know, do you..? You said it..:eek:

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 06:18PM

givyjoe wrote: »

I dont know, do you..? You said it..:eek:

Are you for real?

givyjoe · 17-11-2016 06:22PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Are you for real?

I'm scratching my head here.. yes, i am for real. No one said a woman should cover up because it 'makes us men horny'. YOU did. We are almost all saying, that there are quite clearly appropriate and inappropriate dress depending on the circumstance.

Coming out with such unbelievable nonsense that 'i can wear what i want, whenever i want' is just ridiculous.

midlandsmissus · 17-11-2016 06:25PM

givyjoe wrote: »

I'm scratching my head here.. yes, i am for real. No one said a woman should cover up because it 'makes us men horny'. YOU did. We are almost all saying, that there are quite clearly appropriate and inappropriate dress depending on the circumstance.

Coming out with such unbelievable nonsense that 'i can wear what i want, whenever i want' is just ridiculous.

That's the kind of insanity I just can't argue with.

givyjoe · 17-11-2016 06:29PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

That's the kind of insanity I just can't argue with.

The insanity of a dress code in work which I was clearly referring to? The insanity I've already specifically asked you to comment on.

I'll try again so.. Do you think you should be allowed to wear whatever the hell you want to work? Man or woman. It's a simple enough question to start with.

Zulu · 17-11-2016 06:30PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What's it got to do with you if what she's wearing is provocative?

'I'm turned on, so woman must cover up!'

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

What are you bleating on about?!? I didn't say that - YOU did.

Jesus wept woman. :rolleyes:

Dick phelan · 17-11-2016 06:30PM

What's this about not judging people for what they wear? Of course we judge people by what they wear, if a girl is wearing very skimpy clothing of course it isn't an invitation to rape them but they can hardly complain if they get lads looking at them, people dress nicely in places like clubs because they do want to attract the attention of the opposite sex in my experience, everyone get's judged by what they wear, if i say a lad with a baseball cap white socks tucked in to tracksuit i think there's a high chance he's a scumbag likewise if a girl is dressed in a really low cut top and heels i think she probably wants people to look and admire how she looks. Clothing is never an invitation for sexual assault but don't be complaining over a few glances from lads it's bound to happen if you wear certain clothes.

mzungu · 17-11-2016 06:37PM

Good god, there is a hefty amount of strawmannirg going on in this thread.

Poster 1: There are generally accepted rules of dress for certain occasions.
Poster 2: So you are saying rape is ok because what somebody wears turns men on? You misogynist!!!

:rolleyes:

Widdershins · 17-11-2016 07:25PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

My point - badly made I grant you - is that should said woman claim to have been raped by the straddlee, then I would not believe it for a second.

I never said anything about a third party.

However, look at the sort on the likes of Geordie Shore and the Valleys etc. You see them in court all poshed up crying and you're not gonna believe a word.

I know you didn't mention a third party I just wanted to explore the idea of what a slapper is and what the kind of man who would rape, would think about her, as well as what ordinary people think about her.

Widdershins · 17-11-2016 07:27PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Well that's a very dangerous thought.

So if a girl is on the likes of Geordie shore, where they show people having sex, you wouldn't believe if she was raped?

Jesus Christ almighty, this board gets worse.

Hmm. A bit like that woman in Tralee..it was pointed out by the rapists's supporters that she was basically known for promiscuity.

The Rape of Lucretia · 17-11-2016 07:30PM

Zulu wrote: »

Because womens fashion is more inclined to be provocative?

Well of course. It is designed to attract a man.

Of course women will see it from an angle of looking well, feeling good about themselves, or that they dress that way for themselves and not others. But they feel that way because they feel they have a good chance of attracting male attention. So its really only a restatement of the same thing. Provocative dress is just ramping that up.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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