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Limerick-Ballybrophy Closure

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  • 15-11-2016 5:51pm
    #1
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭


    It has been revealed that the line is costing €550 per passengers to the taxpayer.....in contrast the DART is costing €0.90 per passenger.

    Using the average of 73 passengers per day, over a year it's adds up to almost €14.5 million....

    The full report should make interesting reading if published fully.


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    #2
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    While it's a pity to close public transport infrastructure, this line can't be allowed to continue at that cost. A motorway more or less runs alongside it, why would anyone who commutes to Limerick use a crawling train instead?

    I just took a look at the times. The last train out of Limerick is at 16:55. How is anyone working a normal 9-5 in the city going to make that train?!


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    #3
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    yeah i'm sure it costs that much all right. if you believe that you will believe anything. they have spent plenty of money on it including new track but the speeds are still the same, i wonder was that cost added into the figure. and people wonder why some of us believe nothing out of CIE. ireland will end up with not a single jot of railway. we got nothing in return for the loss of south wexford. we will get nothing in return for this or limerick junction waterford when it is finally ran into the ground dispite money being spent on it. same nonsense, different line. which line will be next after those, ah, we all ready know

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah i'm sure it costs that much all right.
    if you believe that you will believe anything.
    they have spent plenty of money on it including new track but the speeds are still the same, i wonder was that cost added into the figure.
    and people wonder why some of us believe nothing out of CIE.

    Station staff, drivers, gate keepers, maintenance staff, guard.....easily 30-40 and all likely on a minimum of 30,000. The figures stack up pretty well.


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    #5
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Full Report:

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2016_Rail_Review_Report_Complete_Online.pdf


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    #6
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Full Report:

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2016_Rail_Review_Report_Complete_Online.pdf


    End all these passenger services. Keep the track , and build the DARTunderground and these services may well come back.

    Fund these rural lines and no interconnector and they'll kill all rail essentially.

    Grow from the healthy roots. Not from the dying branches.


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    #7
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    While it's a pity to close public transport infrastructure, this line can't be allowed to continue at that cost. A motorway more or less runs alongside it, why would anyone who commutes to Limerick use a crawling train instead?

    I just took a look at the times. The last train out of Limerick is at 16:55. How is anyone working a normal 9-5 in the city going to make that train?!

    Why don't ask yourself why the timetable is so cockeyed - do you imagine that passengers requested the trains to run at useless times?

    ****



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    #8
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Temporarily close the line, upgrade the line over a period of 3-5 years... this should be the main Limerick to Dublin line...

    People would happily use it if the line was upgraded to have decent speeds.

    You keep on repeating this idea and it won't fly.

    ****



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    #9
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    The 'Nenagh/Thurles' line according to Newstalk's Shane Donoghue. :rolleyes: With intelligent analysis like that.....

    ****



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    #10
    ClovenHoof
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    You keep on repeating this idea and it won't fly.

    The increased speed thing on these rural lines is something of a red herring. It can't be done without colossal sums of money. There is no serious demand for non Palerail services.

    Look at the money spent on the catastrophe that is the WRC. A political decision made to indulge a parish priest, his professional victim complex groupies and a few trainspotters. Yet look at the mess it has caused.


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    #11
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,813 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    Would make a fine greenway

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #12
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Your chance to have a say here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/consultation-on-rail-review-2016/

    Sadly, I don't think it will make a jot of a difference as our 'leaders' know best and CIE's funding will be increased at the cost of throwing a few more lines overboard. However, the pitiful amount saved through further closures will not alter the bottom line and within a few years further closures will be on the cards - Tralee, Sligo, Westport, Ballina and Galway.

    ****



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    #13
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    End all these passenger services. Keep the track , and build the DARTunderground and these services may well come back.

    Fund these rural lines and no interconnector and they'll kill all rail essentially.

    Grow from the healthy roots. Not from the dying branches.

    stealing others services to still not build another service elsewhere isn't really a solution. DU isn't going to be built regardless if every single bit of track outside dublin was closed. the political will to fund it isn't there because "reasons"
    the only thing that will kill rail is simple politics both from government and CIE. once again, DU isn't going to be built. i no more like it then the next person but we get what we vote for.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Your chance to have a say here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/consultation-on-rail-review-2016/

    Sadly, I don't think it will make a jot of a difference as our 'leaders' know best and CIE's funding will be increased at the cost of throwing a few more lines overboard. However, the pitiful amount saved through further closures will not alter the bottom line and within a few years further closures will be on the cards - Tralee, Sligo, Westport, Ballina and Galway.

    correct. they are playing this one slowly but the aim is to destroy our rail network. they must be stopped but how i don't know

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #14
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Temporarily close the line, upgrade the line over a period of 3-5 years... this should be the main Limerick to Dublin line...

    People would happily use it if the line was upgraded to have decent speeds.

    The costs saved by doing so would not pay for the upgrade - as has been explained to you already.


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    #15
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Temporarily close the line, upgrade the line over a period of 3-5 years... this should be the main Limerick to Dublin line...

    People would happily use it if the line was upgraded to have decent speeds.

    There is no such thing as a temporary closure. That was the diddicoy excuse given for the suspension of Rosslare-Waterford.


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    #16
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Newstalk Breakfast will be doing a big piece on this tomorrow according to a promo this evening. We can expect ill informed, anti-rail Shane Coleman to do his usual trashy piece. He did some memorable anti-rail work for the Sunday Tribune if memory serves.

    ****



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    #17
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Newstalk Breakfast will be doing a big piece on this tomorrow according to a promo this evening. We can expect ill informed, anti-rail Shane Coleman to do his usual trashy piece. He did some memorable anti-rail work for the Sunday Tribune if memory serves.

    Yup. I can dig out the cuttings from the time. Ireland's anti rail trail can disappear off the web periodically but hard copy beats online every time.


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    #18
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Yup. I can dig out the cuttings from the time. Ireland's anti rail trail can disappear off the web periodically but hard copy beats online every time.

    Just heard the promo again and it's referred to as 'Ghost Trains' so you can expect some serious research to have gone into it - lots of minibus and taxi stories no doubt.

    ****



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    #19
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    What's the motivation for Irish Rail to cannabalise their own rail network?


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    #20
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Page 18 says 0.0119 million passenger journeys to Navan?


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    #21
    jimmy180sx
    Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭jimmy180sx


    Great report...I stopped reading after the executive summary. 42million passengers on page 2, 40 million in the intro


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    #22
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    What's the motivation for Irish Rail to cannabalise their own rail network?

    That is a very good question which I strongly doubt RTÉ's Prime Time will attempt to answer, let alone put the question.


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    #23
    JMT2016
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭JMT2016


    jimmy180sx wrote: »
    Great report...I stopped reading after the executive summary. 42million passengers on page 2, 40 million in the intro

    40m in 2015, 42m expected in 2016


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    #24
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Go to public consultation. Ask people what times they want trains, and to where. Adjust timetable to give the people what they (say they) want. If there's no marked increase in patronage then close it.

    There is no point in keeping a railway line open just because it's a railway line. People need to use it, or lose it.


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    #25
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,475 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    People celebrating this line closing as a white elephant are doing exactly what Irish Rail higher ups have wanted for years. The line has been allowed go to this state so they could justify closing it. Well they are getting their way and people are losing their rail public transport.

    I suppose their timing would have nothing to do with the fact that Tipperary has no Government TD to put a spanner in their works.


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    #26
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deedsie wrote: »
    If you actually want people to use the line it needs to be upgraded and the journey times improved. That is the only way people will use it. Alan Kelly was 100% correct on Primetime tonight. Upgrade the line, remove the level crossings and manual accommodation gates and you would have a viable alternative to the private car for journeys.

    There is a huge gamble in upgrading the line, which may not pay off. So start with baby steps. If, with a popular timetable, sufficient people turn up to actually use it, then talk about the next step.

    With only two small population centres of note, Roscrea with a little over 5000, and Nenagh with 8000, I can't see it producing enough patronage. In fact, an airport in between the two would possibly require less subvention.


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    #27
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Can only help their treachery :-) If anyone here thinks I am raving or demanding 10's of millions to upgrade this line straight away I am not. The line should have been gradually upgraded over the last few decades

    Lines like the Maynooth line have seen little investment too, despite carrying an order of magnitude more people. God knows when I started using it in 1999/2000 we didn't have a Sunday service, and no trains between 5.50pm and 9.15pm. Now we have a Sunday service the last train is at a woefully early 8.40pm.
    Deedsie wrote: »
    There are plenty of far more deserving projects that deserve immediate investment but it will be a disappointing sight when we rip up even more railway lines.

    There are more deserving projects that are being robbed of funding. As I said earlier there is no point in keeping a railway line open just because it's a railway line. It needs the population and patronage to support it. Many of our railway lines were built in the 1800s and there is no way they would be built now.


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    #28
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


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    #29
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Nenagh Municipal District has a population of 40000. Nenagh town and environs is more like 10000. The populations of the town alone is not reflective of potential users of the train.
    2011 census says 8439. I doubt it has grown by 25% since then. Anyone beyond that needs a car to get to the station, so it's unknown how many would take the train.

    By any measure, that's still a small town. Navan has a population of 28559 and there is no funding to re-open the railway.
    Deedsie wrote: »
    They have tried your plan of adjusting the timetable (during the recession) and it didn't work as journey times are too slow and the line needs to be upgraded.

    I'm aware it was tried, and I'm also aware it resulted in no significant change. So try it again. See what happens.


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    #30
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deedsie wrote: »
    http://www.irishrail.ie/timetables/live-map-intercity/?

    Go to the Maynooth line and flick on and off bridges and level crossings.

    Now compare that with the Nenagh line. That's the reason one line is succesful and one line has been left in the hope it will rot away and be closed.

    The Maynooth line serves several extremely densely populated areas. The Nenagh line doesn't!


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    #31
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    subsidising an airport would be cheeper then subsidising a rail line, i've heard it all now.
    i hate to have to state the obvious again but any other projects that need doing aren't going to be done when this line closes. the line will close and it will be on to the next one to shut and the other projects won't get done. we all know this.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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