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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #8582
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Well at least we agree on that. Whatever about the 'stupidity' or otherwise of the things he says, the most dangerous aspect of Trumps personality is his flip-flopping on issues of importance.

    When he is up against the likes of Putin, he will simply cave. Obama turned him after a 90 minute talk. Can you imagine what Putin will do to him?

    He's not the only one who has flipped flopped on important issues. HRC has done that and so have many others. By saying Obama turned him after 90 minutes is a bit disingenuous. He's hardly going to come out and say they disagreed on things in their first formal meeting.

    Trump needs to get his agenda down and stick to it, something he has been doing much better after hiring Kellyanne Conway. When he was up there on stage in rallies he was half entertainer ( taking down the prompters etc ). He has improved on this and needs to keep improving.


  • #8583
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    He's not the only one who has flipped flopped on important issues. HRC has done that and so have many others. By saying Obama turned him after 90 minutes is a bit disingenuous. He's hardly going to come out and say they disagreed on things in their first formal meeting.

    Obama talked him into changing his headline policy in 90 minutes. God know what Putin is going to talk him into. Randomers on twitter have baited him into arguments.


  • #8584
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    We'll only know what his true policies are once he gets into office.

    Yes he has been silly on twitter in the past.


  • #8585
    Suryavarman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The libertarian platform is one long list of policies that would predominantly benefit middle and high income white males. You were only too happy to remind us during the campaign that welfare reform under the Clinton's increased poverty. The libertarian platform would have resulted in the American welfare state becoming stingier and harder to access. The libertarian platform would trap enormous amounts of minorities in a lifetime of grinding poverty. The libertarian movement often fights to reduce freedom for minority groups by defending racist or homophobic business owners' right to deny services to non-white or homosexuals. There's also a strong anti-feminism element to the libertarian movement. These things perhaps explain why so few minorities or females are involved in libertarian politics.

    You might not have voted to advance white male privilege but you did vote for a bunch of policies that would benefit middle and high income white males at the expense of everyone else. And at the end of the day results matter more than intentions.


  • #8586
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Yeah, he was a 14 year old boy. 14. A Hungarian Jew trying to do whatever he could to save his life against an extreme right regime.

    He felt 'no guilt' because he could not grasp the totality of what was going on.

    This is an especially sinister twist to this debate, Hank. Quality post.


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  • #8587
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    He's not the only one who has flipped flopped on important issues. HRC has done that and so have many others.

    HRC is not President elect.


  • #8588
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Yeah, he was a 14 year old boy. 14. A Hungarian Jew trying to do whatever he could to save his life against an extreme right regime.

    He felt 'no guilt' because he could not grasp the totality of what was going on.

    This is an especially sinister twist to this debate, Hank. Quality post.

    What do you make of his comments here @ 2.30 ?



    "I am there to make money, I cannot and do not look at the social consequences"

    Or his involvement in Black Wednesday in the UK, among many other currency crashes he profited from

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday


  • #8589
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    He's not the only one who has flipped flopped on important issues. HRC has done that and so have many others. By saying Obama turned him after 90 minutes is a bit disingenuous. He's hardly going to come out and say they disagreed on things in their first formal meeting.

    Trump needs to get his agenda down and stick to it, something he has been doing much better after hiring Kellyanne Conway. When he was up there on stage in rallies he was half entertainer ( taking down the prompters etc ). He has improved on this and needs to keep improving.

    Hang on, Clinton flipped flopped plenty as did the other politicians.....I thought Trump's schtick was that he wasn't like all the others....that he wasn't your typical swamp living, establishment perpetuating professional politician.....wasn't he supposed to be a business person of ability and decisiveness?

    Now his defenders seem to be using the fact that politicians flip flop to justify Trump's flipping and flopping - does that mean he's just a politician and he's not different in nature to other politicians?


  • #8590
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Hang on, Clinton flipped flopped plenty as did the other politicians.....I thought Trump's schtick was that he wasn't like all the others....that he wasn't your typical swamp living, establishment perpetuating professional politician.....wasn't he supposed to be a business person of ability and decisiveness?

    Now his defenders seem to be using the fact that politicians flip flop to justify Trump's flipping and flopping - does that mean he's just a politician and he's not different in nature to other politicians?

    I'm not justifying anything. Believe me I don't need to sit here and be a "defender" of Trump with the tables stacked 5 to 1, I can hop onto different boards and avoid it entirely. Trump's "thing" in not being a typical politician was that the media didn't know what to do because he turned the tide so many times in interviews or press conferences. Now he has to learn to be more diplomatic in those scenarios.

    I have openly admitted time and time again he's made mistakes with his prologue, something which the media ended up exaggerating tenfold to gain retribution and or/ because of special interests whilst often dismissing or ignoring blatant corruption on the other side. Whenever I try or tried argue in the opposite direction via wikileaks or things like project veritas they tend to get dismissed or ignored completely.


  • #8591
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    What do you make of his comments here @ 2.30 ?

    Are you trying to suggest that the comment you quoted was in connection with his experience at 14 years of age having to confiscate the property of his landesmen?

    You are deliberately trying to misrepresent the truth.

    Please, answer my question. Are you going to condemn the actions of a frightened 14 year old boy in doing what he is told to do?

    Or do you just not care about the sinister, dark twist put on his words by that video?


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  • #8592
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm not justifying anything. Believe me I don't need to sit here and be a "defender" of Trump with the tables stacked 5 to 1, I can hop onto different boards and avoid it entirely. Trump's "thing" in not being a typical politician was that the media didn't know what to do because he turned the tide so many times in interviews or press conferences. Now he has to learn to be more diplomatic in those scenarios.

    I have openly admitted time and time again he's made mistakes with his prologue, something which the media ended up exaggerating tenfold to gain retribution and or/ because of special interests whilst often dismissing or ignoring blatant corruption on the other side. Whenever I try or tried argue in the opposite direction via wikileaks or things like project veritas they tend to get dismissed or ignored completely.

    While you're under no obligation to post here at all, it's pretty standard to actually support a contention with some manner of evidence. Project Veritas made a bunch of claims on the back of precisely zilch evidence. If you're going to claim a trump isn't a serial liar, then you'll need to provide some manner of explanation for that series of lies he's been responsible for. No amount of George Soros deflection is really going to cut it. The conspiracy theory forum never runs out of willing recipients for that manner of schtick.


  • #8593
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Are you trying to suggest that the comment you quoted was in connection with his experience at 14 years of age having to confiscate the property of his landesmen?

    You are deliberately trying to misrepresent the truth.

    Please, answer my question. Are you going to condemn the actions of a frightened 14 year old boy in doing what he is told to do?

    Or do you just not care about the sinister, dark twist put on his words by that video?

    I'm condemning what he said about the Nazi regime, not what he was forced to do as a kid.

    "Well actually was probably the happiest year of my life. That year of German occupation. For me it was a very positive experience."

    Regardless of it making him "tougher" it is an incredibly insensitive and offensive thing to say after millions of people and Jew's died.

    For someone who takes pleasure in gaining money without worrying about economic or social consequences, I think it's fair to call him out on idiotic comments.


  • #8594
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    alastair wrote: »
    While you're under no obligation to post here at all, it's pretty standard to actually support a contention with some manner of evidence. Project Veritas made a bunch of claims on the back of precisely zilch evidence. If you're going to claim a trump isn't a serial liar, then you'll need to provide some manner of explanation for that series of lies he's been responsible for. No amount of George Soros deflection is really going to cut it. The conspiracy theory forum never runs out of willing recipients for that manner of schtick.

    For someone who will not accept wrongdoing has been done until somebody is persecuted or in jail, even when high level members of congress come out and say crimes have been committed and have pointed towards corruption and protection, no level of implied wikileaks evidence or any evidence will ever change your mind.


  • #8595
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm condemning what he said about the Nazi regime, not what he was forced to do as a kid.

    "Well actually was probably the happiest year of my life. That year of German occupation. For me it was a very positive experience."

    Regardless of it making him "tougher" it is an incredibly insensitive and offensive thing to say after millions of people and Jew's died.

    For someone who takes pleasure in gaining money without worrying about economic or social consequences, I think it's fair to call him out on idiotic comments.

    People and Jews eh?

    If it was a happy year for him, then it's not idiotic to say so. It would be idiotic to say otherwise. I think he's better placed to empathise with the victims of the Shoah than you are, and to make his own call as to what's offensive.


  • #8596
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    For someone who will not accept wrongdoing has been done until somebody is persecuted or in jail, even when high level members of congress come out and say crimes have been committed and have pointed towards corruption and protection, no level of implied wikileaks evidence or any evidence will ever change your mind.

    I'm not exactly alone in respecting the notion of a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with core civil rights? Hillary has been investigated multiple times, and no criminality has ever been found. Your penchant for misrepresenting the titbits you get from the Wikileaks emails are evidence of nothing.


  • #8597
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm not exactly alone in respecting the notion of a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with core civil rights? Hillary has been investigated multiple times, and no criminality has ever been found. Your penchant for misrepresenting the titbits you get from the Wikileaks emails are evidence of nothing.

    I'm glad there's many people in congress who don't view her particular case's so black and white.


  • #8598
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm glad there's many people in congress who don't view her particular case's so black and white.

    Oh, you mean her political opponents, who benefit from casting aspersions, and don't actually need to substantiate them with proof? Seems like that's well into the grey territory alright. Many investigations - no criminality.


  • #8599
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm condemning what he said about the Nazi regime, not what he was forced to do as a kid.

    "Well actually was probably the happiest year of my life. That year of German occupation. For me it was a very positive experience."

    Non sequitur. Where in the line you quoted does he say anything about the nazi regime?

    I have no doubt what your underlying subtext is here, but If I voice it my post will be deleted.

    Billy86 has a wonderfully adroit piece of satire deleted, yet your post above, and your varying efforts to defend it remain unchallenged.


  • #8600
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    You mean like Clinton is on record as saying she has... oh I see what you did there! (though most of those thanking you don't I reckon)

    Oh, they do. She was pilloried for it; and the same people who castigated her for it don't have a problem with Trump doing it. That's precisely the double standard I was highlighting. Thanks for noticing.


  • #8601
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    alastair wrote: »
    Oh, you mean her political opponents, who benefit from casting aspersions, and don't actually need to substantiate them with proof? Seems like that's well into the grey territory alright. Many investigations - no criminality.

    I believe people like Jason Chaffetz, Tred Gowdy and Jim Jordan have fairness and integrity in mind regardless of political allegiances.


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  • #8602
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I believe people like Jason Chaffetz, Tred Gowdy and Jim Jordan have fairness and integrity in mind regardless of political allegiances.

    That's great for you, but integrity doesn't really come to my mind, when I think of Chaffetz, and how he couldn't face his daughter etc.


  • #8603
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    Billy86 has a wonderfully adroit piece of satire deleted, yet your post above, and your varying efforts to defend it remain unchallenged.

    Mod note:

    Please dont comment on moderation on thread.


  • #8604
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    I'm not justifying anything. Believe me I don't need to sit here and be a "defender" of Trump with the tables stacked 5 to 1, I can hop onto different boards and avoid it entirely. Trump's "thing" in not being a typical politician was that the media didn't know what to do because he turned the tide so many times in interviews or press conferences. Now he has to learn to be more diplomatic in those scenarios.

    I have openly admitted time and time again he's made mistakes with his prologue, something which the media ended up exaggerating tenfold to gain retribution and or/ because of special interests whilst often dismissing or ignoring blatant corruption on the other side. Whenever I try or tried argue in the opposite direction via wikileaks or things like project veritas they tend to get dismissed or ignored completely.

    Another deflection. The question I asked was.....
    does that mean he's just a politician and he's not different in nature to other politicians?

    He was made a big play about being different, but his apologists are quick enough to justify his backsliding by comparing him to 'conventional' politicians......if that's the comparator does that not mean the differences he traded on are, in effect, not that great, if they exist at all?


  • #8605
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I see Giuliani is now favourite for State, according to Fox.
    "Russia thinks it’s a military competitor, it really isn’t," Giuliani said. "It’s our unwillingness under Obama to even threaten the use of our military that makes Russia so powerful."

    The article also mentions John Bolton as a candidate for the job.
    Bolton has years of federal government experience, but he has also raised eyebrows with some of his hawkish stances, including a 2015 op-ed in The New York Times in which he advocated bombing Iran to halt the country's development of nuclear weapons.

    Remember folks: Clinton is the warmonger.


  • #8606
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I see Giuliani is now favourite for State, according to Fox.



    The article also mentions John Bolton as a candidate for the job.



    Remember folks: Clinton is the warmonger.

    Bolton is one of those people I have a grudging respect for. You know exactly what you're getting with him. You're getting a purr hawk, there''s no doubting that. He would be a horrific secretary of state. His stint ad ambassador to the UN was a disaster. But hey, he has integrity.


    So once the swamp is drained all that's left are republican politicians who are consumate insiders?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #8607
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Trump is certainly keeping everyone guessing.

    First he appears to moderate his position on the Wall and Obamacare, leading you to wonder if it really all was just campaign bluster. Then he appoints your man Bannon as senior counsellor


  • #8608
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Trump is certainly keeping everyone guessing.

    First he appears to moderate his position on the Wall and Obamacare, leading you to wonder if it really all was just campaign bluster. Then he appoints your man Bannon as senior counsellor

    I was just reading about Bannon in an article in the times, it doesn't bode well.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #8609
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    I love the way people lambaste Trump for trying to make peace with Russia while calling him a warmonger..................


  • #8610
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Mr.H wrote: »
    I love the way people lambaste Trump for trying to make peace with Russia while calling him a warmonger..................

    I am sure there a few other smaller countries that might be considered. Make friends with the other bully.


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  • #8611
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    I am sure there a few other smaller countries that might be considered. Make friends with the other bully.

    Or it could also be seen as make friends with the bully in order to improve diplomatic relations and get them to stop this new cold war that is currently happening.

    Stopping this hatred between two big nations can only be a good thing


This discussion has been closed.
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