Louise O Neill on rape culture.

o1s1n · 11-11-2016 05:20PM

demfad wrote: »

Here is a US gov. definition:

You would be guilty of assault in any case. If the assault was a 'a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over another intimate partner' then you would be a perpetrator of domestic violence.

If your wife defended herself from your assault physically or verbally , she would be guilty of domestic abuse according to the 'studies' you are championing.

I didn't realise US Government definitions are used in the Irish courts. Oh wait, they're not. I would suggest you use Irish legislative definitions to make your point.

I'm not championing anything, I'm just completely baffled as to how you arrive at such absurd and, dare I say it, please don't be triggered, misandric views.

tritium · 11-11-2016 05:24PM

demfad wrote: »

Again, a woman fighting off a perpetrator of domestic violence once or on several occasions would herself be deemed a perpetrator of domestic violence.

Except ive already pointed you to research that women are more likely to initiate violence in reciprocal violence relationships...

So actually men i guess would be the ones fefending themselves in your scenario...

givyjoe · 11-11-2016 05:25PM

demfad wrote: »

Just to address this. I would see the issue being more with investigation in the first instance.
There was a scathing report released about the Gardai in late 2014. The report was particularly scathing on attitudes, recording and investigation of domestic incidents. Here's an Irish Times report. You are not going to get convictions if you are not even recording assaults as crimes. The attitude of the gardai here reflects the wider cultural attitude towards domestic violence. A culture where domestic violence is more likely to occur and more likely to be tolerated.

Sorry, but absolute bullsh!t on a specific culture or poor attitude towards domestic violence.. there is a poor attitude full stop (in my personal experience) to victims of crimes. It's not specific to women, or domestic abuse. They often seem to treat everyone with equal disdain (again, my opinion from personal experience)

Their attitudes to men suffering from domestic violence are also questionable. I know men who've been repeatedly assaulted on many occasions, threatened with extreme violence and their only answer is just leave (your house) for your own good. They simply dont want to get involved in these cases as they are so much hassle.

Widdershins · 11-11-2016 05:26PM

givyjoe wrote: »

S there is a poor attitude full stop (in my personal experience) to victims of crimes. It's not specific to women, or domestic abuse. They often seem to treat everyone with equal disdain (again, my opinion from personal experience)

I second this..

py2006 · 11-11-2016 06:06PM

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/797055471114981376

me_right_one · 11-11-2016 06:07PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

I can't see that happening. Generally WWN roots for the underdog and women, in society, don't exactly need taking down any more pegs.

snotboogie wrote: »

That's one way of putting it, another would be that WW carefully treads the line of modern political correctness. They have no problem "punching down" as long as the victim is from the right demographic

Exactly. WWN supports abortion on demand. Not just termination for medical reasons. Who's the underdog there?

Wibbs · 11-11-2016 06:38PM

givyjoe wrote: »

They simply dont want to get involved in these cases as they are so much hassle.

Guards will likely tell you(and the ones I've known have) that they absolutely hate domestic type calls. Understandably so. It's hard to work out what's really going on, particularly on a first call out. They try to diffuse with their presence, while knowing sometimes their presence can cause even more abuse the second they're gone. I asked one lad why the goto thing is to remove men from the home and his angle was that men are quite simply and usually the bigger obvious physical risk and that if there are kids they just prefer to leave the mother in situ. Though this lad did tell me that he knew cases where the woman was asked to leave, but it was rare.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 06:50PM

me_right_one wrote:

Exactly. WWN supports abortion on demand. Not just termination for medical reasons. Who's the underdog there?

I bet any money you're a man. The underdog is the women who are being told by men what they can do with their own bodies, contrary to medical standards everywhere else.

me_right_one · 11-11-2016 06:58PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

I bet any money you're a man. The underdog is the women who are being told by men what they can do with their own bodies, contrary to medical standards everywhere else.

Do what you like with your own body. Leave everyone else's alone, INCLUDING your baby's.

And yes. I am a father.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 07:00PM

me_right_one wrote:

Do what you like with your own body. Leave everyone else's alone, INCLUDING your baby's.

And yes. I am a father.

Or your foetus? Or your implanted embryo? What's the cut-off? We should illegalize all birth control altogether. Every sperm is sacred.

Until they start neutering men, I'm pro-choice.

me_right_one · 11-11-2016 07:04PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

Or your foetus? Or your implanted embryo? What's the cut-off? We should illegalize all birth control altogether. Every sperm is sacred.

Until they start neutering men, I'm pro-choice.

I see Louise has taken the night off Twitter to come on Boards.

The cut-off for me is when the heart of your baby starts beating. Thats 16 days. After that, you're killing a live human being. Sperm is not "live" as it cant self-propogate and it doesnt have unique DNA, same with an egg.

Ironic you support the notion of a "rape culture", but you see absolutely nothing wrong with killing a baby/foetus/human for reasons other than medical. What if it was a girl?

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 07:06PM

Well if you get busted on the domestic violence stats it's time for a few rounds of "my body my choice" isn't it.
(I'm pro-choice myself before you start)

me_right_one · 11-11-2016 07:06PM

Katie Hopkins and Louise O'Neill should be locked up in a room together. Two lunatics from opposite ends of the same asylum.

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 07:10PM

So the bottom line from the available domestic violence stats is that men and women are pretty even when it come to instigating violence.
It's just that men are obviously far better at it.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 07:28PM

me_right_one wrote:

Ironic you support the notion of a "rape culture", but you see absolutely nothing wrong with killing a baby/foetus/human for reasons other than medical. What if it was a girl?

I never said anything about "supporting rape culture". It's chauvinism and men making decisions about women's bodies that I'm opposed to. If sixteen days is your cut-off point, that's your prerogative. You don't have to carry a child (which can be conceived in a number of traumatic ways, in which a woman has no say) for nine months and push it out of your vagina and then support it.

Seeing as we're doing hyperbolic scenarios, if your daughter was raped and became pregnant, I'm assuming you would have her deliver the baby?

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 07:44PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

You don't have to carry a child (which can be conceived in a number of traumatic ways, in which a woman has no say) for nine months and push it out of your vagina and then support it.

Hang on there a minute. You reckon there's no legal or even social pressure for a father to support their children?

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 07:59PM

osmiumartist wrote:

Hang on there a minute. You reckon there's no legal or even social pressure for a father to support their children?

You don't become a legal guardian if you're not married unless you've lived with the child for twelve months. I know this, because my friends have fallen foul of this stupid law. You're selectively ignoring my other points, which focus on the actual childbearing aspect of giving birth. It took a woman dying in a Galway hospital for us to even change the law to allow women not to be killed by their own foetus and you're telling me the embryo needs MORE protection?

py2006 · 11-11-2016 08:08PM

With regards DV, a good friend of a cousin of mine has/had an awful weapon of a wife. She was a total psycho. She verbally, mentally and physically abused him. He'd often be bruised, have cuts and black eyes.

One day after a row in which he received a bloody nose, SHE called the guards. They arrived and even though they acknowledged that he was clearly the victim, procedure dictated that he be removed from the house for questioning and HER safety.

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 08:18PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

You don't become a legal guardian if you're not married unless you've lived with the child for twelve months. I know this, because my friends have fallen foul of this stupid law. You're selectively ignoring my other points, which focus on the actual childbearing aspect of giving birth. It took a woman dying in a Galway hospital for us to even change the law to allow women not to be killed by their own foetus and you're telling me the embryo needs MORE protection?

The findings of the Savita inquiry actually said the laws as they were meant the foetus should have been removed. There was no need to change anything.
If you want to go the legal route for responsibility, any mother can give up a baby at any time. Nobody is forced to look after anybody who can be looked after elsewhere.
All off topic anyway.

Richard Hillman · 11-11-2016 08:20PM

me_right_one wrote: »

I see Louise has taken the night off Twitter to come on Boards.

Stop Louise O'Neill shaming her. We'll have to pay for another RTE programme about it being shamed for liberofascist views.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 08:23PM

osmiumartist wrote:

The findings of the Savita inquiry actually said the laws as they were meant the foetus should have been removed. There was no need to change anything. If you want to go the legal route for responsibility, any mother can give up a baby at any time. Nobody is forced to look after anybody.

Alright so we'll just forcibly assault you, surgically implant a bowling ball in your abdomen and see how you enjoy pushing it out through your anus after carrying it for nine months.

I'm not even a feminist.

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 08:26PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

Alright so we'll just forcibly assault you, surgically implant a bowling ball in your abdomen and see how you enjoy pushing it out through your anus after carrying it for nine months.

I'm not even a feminist.

Are you not a feminist? What's your definition of that if you're saying you're not?
Did someone suggest childbirth wasn't painful? This seems to be news to you?

Widdershins · 11-11-2016 08:27PM

I'm fairly sure the heart starts beating at around 6 weeks.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 08:31PM

osmiumartist wrote:

The findings of the Savita inquiry actually said the laws as they were meant the foetus should have been removed. There was no need to change anything. If you want to go the legal route for responsibility, any mother can give up a baby at any time.

Also what are you supposed to say to your family/colleagues/anyone who comments on your pregnancy if you've been raped? Women aren't incubators. Do you seriously think all potential babies would be better off born, especially considering how many children each year go missing from care of the state??? It's chronic in this country. I'm speaking as somebody who would never have had an abortion of convenience myself because I'd change my entire life around to have a baby I became pregnant with. I've just never been in that circumstance so I have the luxury of choice. That's exactly what the whole argument is about.

This is massively deviating from the documentary, which is about man being rabid sex dogs, and I don't actually think Ireland has that problem. I just think we need to allow women to access their human rights as recognised everywhere else in the world that has a fully developed medical system.

Wibbs · 11-11-2016 08:31PM

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm fairly sure the heart starts beating at around 6 weeks.

and as much of Irish Meeja proves the brain can still be inactive well into adulthood.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 08:37PM

Wibbs wrote:

and as much of Irish Meeja proves the brain can still be inactive well into adulthood.

Definitely top 3 comments in the entire thread.

osmiumartist wrote:

Are you not a feminist? What's your definition of that if you're saying you're not? Did someone suggest childbirth wasn't painful? This seems to be news to you?

What are you even talking about anymore? If you decide to get pregnant, you also decide to undergo the bodily changes that happen. If you're raped, they'll happen regardless.

I'm not a feminist, I just want people to get their basic human rights.

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 09:14PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

What are you even talking about anymore? If you decide to get pregnant, you also decide to undergo the bodily changes that happen. If you're raped, they'll happen regardless.

Again... yeah, and?
I already said I was pro-choice. Not taking yes for an answer?

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 11-11-2016 09:18PM

osmiumartist wrote:

Again... yeah, and? I already said I was pro-choice. Not taking yes for an answer?

Quote where you gave any pro-choice stance please. Genuinely missed that entirely.

osmiumartist · 11-11-2016 09:27PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

Quote where you gave any pro-choice stance please. Genuinely missed that entirely.

The bit where I said I was pro-choice. Is that too vague for your liking?

Outlaw Pete · 11-11-2016 09:36PM

Zain Fluffy Tourist wrote: »

The underdog is the women who are being told by men what they can do with their own bodies, contrary to medical standards everywhere else.

Aside from the fact that a developing human being is not a woman's body.... why the hell do people like you insist on framing abortion legislation as "men telling women" what to do?

Women were allowed to vote in all the past abortion referendums you know and they'll be allowed to vote in the future ones too.

The patriarchy are sound like that.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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