2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 06:30PM

marienbad wrote: »

Amerika , might I ask do you accept Climate Change ? just curious

Of course!. The climate has been in a state of constant change for millions of years.

oscarBravo · 11-11-2016 06:37PM

Amerika wrote: »

Of course!. The climate has been in a state of constant change for millions of years.

Yes, it has.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 06:39PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

He's answered that before. In short: the climate may be changing, but there's nothing we can do about it, and why should we do anything anyway because the Chinese might not, so let's just do nothing because that makes the most sense.

Not quite right, but basically.... yeah. But I am for protecting things like rain forests, and for clean air and water. But no, I do not believe in bankrupting nations and forcing people to live lesser qualities of life for something that will do basically nothing to reduce climate change, and the international scam of forced transfer of wealth from one nation to another.

Overheal · 11-11-2016 06:40PM

I expect that now that he's won, some degree of Stockholm Syndrome will kick in. With Trump's ambiguous stance on everything, and his bat**** crazy rhetoric and penchant for throwing tantrums 140 characters at a time, people who disagree with him will really not have much choice but to hope their captor has some degree of benevolence and won't just jump in and start ripping out Jenga blocks at random.

Given he's already quickly dispelled the illusion that he would 'drain the swamp', one can only anticipate what other campaign rhetoric he will now backtrack on.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics/donald-trump-transition-drain-the-swamp/index.html

Washington (CNN)To shape his administration, President-elect Donald Trump is drawing squarely from the "swamp" he has pledged to drain.

Trump's transition team is staffed with long-time Washington experts and lobbyists from K Street, think tanks and political offices.
It's a far cry from Trump's campaign, which ended only Tuesday night, and message that he would "drain the swamp" in Washington. He has advocated congressional term limits and proposed a "five-point plan for ethics reform" that included strengthening restrictions on lobbying, including five-year bans for members and staff of the executive branch and Congress from lobbying, and expanding the definition of lobbyist to prevent more revolving door activity.
But he has so far fully embraced lobbyists within his transition, and all signs point to a heavy influence from longtime Washington Republican circles on his transition. And with Trump mostly skipping detailed policy proposals during his campaign, they can have a powerful impact on his agenda.

Hank Scorpio · 11-11-2016 06:45PM

Isn't Kellyanne Conway offered a place in the cabinet?

I don't see it mentioned in that CNN article.

https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/796757702995308548

Overheal · 11-11-2016 06:47PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Isn't Kellyanne Conway offered a place in the cabinet?

I don't see it mentioned in that CNN article.

https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls/status/796757702995308548

Press Secretary perhaps? Ultimately we have to see who is announced but I'm not against holding his feet to the fire on this. He is not the first person to claim to want to "Drain the Swamp" and come up miserably short.

20Cent · 11-11-2016 06:47PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I plead the fifth.

On a serious note, I'd imagine most are fed up of the corruption.

Trump may or may not be corrupt when he gets swore in, but people know exactly what they are getting with, with one Hillary Rodham Clinton.

By hIs cabinet and staff pick as reported l look ready to turn the USA into their own personal ATM machine. He railed against lobbyists while campaigning yet will fill his gov with them. Lube up well.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 06:48PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, it has.

Years ago I bought into all the expert warnings about how the oceans would rise to unprecedented levels... and bought my house on the mountain because of the promise that I’d have beachfront property by now. Still waiting.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 06:50PM

Overheal wrote: »

Press Secretary perhaps? Ultimately we have to see who is announced but I'm not against holding his feet to the fire on this. He is not the first person to claim to want to "Drain the Swamp" and come up miserably short.

I think the job of Press Secretary should go to Ann Coulter.

Overheal · 11-11-2016 06:53PM

Amerika wrote: »

I think the job of Press Secretary should go to Ann Coulter.

I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. That closet Nazi is the last person.

marienbad · 11-11-2016 06:54PM

Amerika wrote: »

Of course!. The climate has been in a state of constant change for millions of years.

You are a fan of Asimov and you give an answer like that ?

I take it from your posts you are like myself a ' certain age ' so our race is effectively run , but how anyone with kids and grandkids can think like that is really beyond me .

I can only hope President -elect Trump looks at his young son and gets a glimpse of his future .

oscarBravo · 11-11-2016 06:55PM

Amerika wrote: »

But no, I do not believe in bankrupting nations and forcing people to live lesser qualities of life for something that will do basically nothing to reduce climate change...

Oh, there's nothing that can be done? Fair enough, let's carry on destroying the world, so.

Out of curiosity: when the vast, vast majority of people whose job it is to study climate change for a living agree that we can, in fact, do something about it - on what basis do you decide that they are wrong?

Sofa Spud · 11-11-2016 07:03PM

26000 Elephants wrote: »

If Trump is the cure, I think the disease is starting to look very attractive.

I applaud your well written piece, you do get in to the why's and wherefores of his election. But do you not think that many countries have been here before? The 'disease' that is identified and needs curing? The demagogue who arrives claiming to have that cure? But the cure ends up causing more suffering for those who were convinced they were afflicted.

Trumps election was built upon a tissue of lies, false rumours, invective and an unrelenting campaign to paint the opponent as a criminal. And as for the Hoover-esque intervention of Comey - I can guarantee that will be the subject of a congressional committee in the future. All the while several questions about his own history went unanswered. A multi billionaire who resonated with the working classes. The anti establishment hero who then proceeds to stock his cabinet with establishment die-hards from the world of finance.

And a look like a rabbit caught in the headlights when he enters the White House.

I think Johnnie Rotten said it best

Yeah, I think that's possibly taking the disease metaphor a bit too far. Totally get your historical reference to 'disease' - that wasn't really what I meant.

My point was that we have tended to see Trump simply in terms of a lunatic narcissist that was driven by the alt:right media and followed by idiots incapable of critical thought. That view was driven by a liberal media that fed that perception - completely, or almost completely, ignoring the fact that he spoke directly to a large proportion of the population that really needed to feel that they finally have someone that takes them seriously and is willing to fight for them.

The liberal media has created a degree of self-righteousness where they can ignore a large proportion of the population as they are contemptuous of their views and they literally (watch any late night show, Daily Show, Saturday Night Live) laugh at them. A lot of them get their news from facebook, which is driven by algorithms that push news from sources they've looked at or liked before, and articles that their friends have read and liked, so their bubble is no different to the Alex Jones/O'Reilly/Breitbart or Drudge Report brigade. It's that level of separation that drove a lot of passion on the Trump side - it's not the only factor by far, but it's a sizeable factor in driving his supporters to want to shout a big 'F&@k You' to the rest...

So by saying Trump was maybe the 'cure', I meant that his elevation could, possibly, shake the liberals out of their complacency and possibly help them to realise that their view of the world may not be as righteous or better than they would like to believe. They need to return to a point where being liberal - and this is my strong conviction - is about being open to all sides and then formulating beliefs, having considered all points of view and not just having beliefs handed to them via their 'bubble' media or social media.

More importantly, they need to realise that the bubble they created played a significant role - maybe not as much as the crazies on the alt:right media - but they none the less played a role in giving his campaign the oxygen it needed to get him to the White House.

That's what I meant by the cure.
No nasty historical reference - just thinking that the absolutely insane thought of President Trump is now a reality that was driven by both sides of the media and political divide. Liberals have to face the fact that they are part of the political discourse, and just because they feel that they are right, because they think about it a lot and discuss it and read about it and watch cool documentaries and subscribe to worthy causes doesn't make them sole possessors of truth and the right way.

But they are just a guilty of living in a self-delusional bubble as the right....

oscarBravo · 11-11-2016 07:07PM

Amerika wrote: »

So, because we've had ice ages and warm periods in the past, it's OK to wilfully bugger up the climate now?

Years ago I bought into all the expert warnings about how the oceans would rise to unprecedented levels... and bought my house on the mountain because of the promise that I’d have beachfront property by now. Still waiting.

You've said that before. I asked you then who predicted beachfront property in the mountains, and you didn't answer. Maybe you will this time?

Overheal wrote: »

I think I just vomited in my mouth a little. That closet Nazi is the last person.

...closet...?

KingBrian2 · 11-11-2016 07:10PM

Sofa Spud wrote: »

Yeah, I think that's possibly taking the disease metaphor a bit too far. Totally get your historical reference to 'disease' - that wasn't really what I meant.

My point was simply that we have tended to see Trump simply in terms of a lunatic narcissist that was driven by the alt:right media and followed by idiots incapable of critical thought. That view was driven by a liberal media that fed that perception - completely, or almost completely, ignoring the fact that he spoke directly to a large proportion of the population that really needed to feel that they finally have someone that takes them seriously and is willing to fight for them.

The liberal media has created a degree of self-righteousness where they can ignore a large proportion of the population as they are contemptuous of their views and they literally (watch any late night show, Daily Show, Saturday Night Live) laugh at them. A lot of them get their news from facebook, which is driven by algorithms that push news from sources they've looked at or liked before, and articles that their friends have read and liked, so their bubble is no different to the Alex Jones/O'Reilly/Breitbart or Drudge Report brigade. It's that level of separation that drove a lot of passion on the Trump side - it's not the only factor by far, but it's a sizeable factor in driving his supporters to want to shout a big 'F&@k You' to the rest...

So by saying Trump was maybe the 'cure', I meant that his elevation could, possibly, shake the liberals out of their complacency and possibly help them to realise that their view of the world may not be as righteous or better than they would like to believe. They need to return to a point where being liberal - and this is my strong conviction - is about being open to all sides and then formulating beliefs, having considered all points of view and not just having beliefs handed to them via their 'bubble' media or social media.

More importantly, they need to realise that the bubble they created played a significant role - maybe not as much as the crazies on the alt:right media - but they none the less played a role in giving his campaign the oxygen it needed to get him to the White House.

That's what I meant by the cure.
No nasty historical reference - just thinking that the absolutely insane thought of President Trump is now a reality that was driven by both sides of the media and political divide. Liberals have to face the fact that they are part of the political discourse, and just because they feel that they are right, because they think about it a lot and discuss it and read about it and watch cool documentaries and subscribe to worthy causes doesn't make them sole possessors of truth and the right way.

But they are just a guilty of living in a self-delusional bubble as the right....

Trump has just burst that bubble and the Markets did not go into freefall. We see volatility picking us yes the likely sufferers in the long term will be the media industry that for years were playing to a certain crowd.

oscarBravo · 11-11-2016 07:12PM

Sofa Spud wrote: »

So by saying Trump was maybe the 'cure', I meant that his elevation could, possibly, shake the liberals out of their complacency and possibly help them to realise that their view of the world may not be as righteous or better than they would like to believe. They need to return to a point where being liberal - and this is my strong conviction - is about being open to all sides and then formulating beliefs, having considered all points of view and not just having beliefs handed to them via their 'bubble' media or social media.

Here's the thing: being liberal, for me, means not denying people their rights because of their skin colour, gender identity or sexual orientation.

If someone believes that it's OK to be a prick to someone because they're black, or female, or gay, then that person is wrong. I don't need to be shaken out of that complacent worldview; I don't feel the need to be open to the idea that someone is inherently more worthy because they are a straight white male.

I also don't need a social media bubble to tell me to treat people like human beings.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 07:12PM

marienbad wrote: »

You are a fan of Asimov and you give an answer like that ? I take it from your posts you are like myself a ' certain age ' so our race is effectively run , but how anyone with kids and grandkids can think like that is really beyond me .

I can only hope President -elect Trump looks at his young son and gets a glimpse of his future .

I am thinking of future generations.

I guess it’s a good thing for me Hillary Clinton wasn’t elected president, or soon I might be arrested and fined for my views.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/10/attorney-general-lynch-looking-into-prosecuting-climate-change-deniers/

PopePalpatine · 11-11-2016 07:14PM

marienbad wrote: »

I can only hope President -elect Trump looks at his young son and gets a glimpse of his future.

The only thing such a glimpse would do would be to get Barron a ticket to Elysium.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 07:16PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

You've said that before. I asked you then who predicted beachfront property in the mountains, and you didn't answer. Maybe you will this time?

I thought I answered that before... I take it you've seen Al Gore's ‘An Inconvenient Truth?’

http://scienceline.org/2008/12/ask-rettner-sea-level-rise-al-gore-an-inconvenient-truth/

marienbad · 11-11-2016 07:16PM

Amerika wrote: »

I am thinking of future generations.

I guess it’s a good thing for me Hillary Clinton wasn’t elected president, or soon I might be arrested and fined for my views.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/10/attorney-general-lynch-looking-into-prosecuting-climate-change-deniers/

So how can you deny the science ?

RobertKK · 11-11-2016 07:22PM

TheOven wrote: »

And people try to claim Trump was taken out of context...

Well he had to backtrack, so maybe he should have been clearer than telling some of his workers to send in their resignations.

PopePalpatine · 11-11-2016 07:24PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Here's the thing: being liberal, for me, means not denying people their rights because of their skin colour, gender identity or sexual orientation.

If someone believes that it's OK to be a prick to someone because they're black, or female, or gay, then that person is wrong. I don't need to be shaken out of that complacent worldview; I don't feel the need to be open to the idea that someone is inherently more worthy because they are a straight white male.

I also don't need a social media bubble to tell me to treat people like human beings.

If anything, the complacency of Clinton was summed up in the Rust Belt. She didn't visit Wisconsin at all, and (I've just looked this up) paid only a single visit to Michigan since winning the Dems' nomination, which was last weekend.

The way I see it, the Rust Belt got a diagnosis of lung cancer. Trump is the snake oil salesman who owns shares in a tobacco company, and Clinton used to work for a tobacco company.

B0jangles · 11-11-2016 07:25PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Well he had to backtrack, so maybe he should have been clearer than telling some of his workers to send in their resignations.

So mob rule is a-ok as long as you agree with them?

CMOTDibbler · 11-11-2016 07:25PM

Amerika wrote: »

I am thinking of future generations.

I guess it’s a good thing for me Hillary Clinton wasn’t elected president, or soon I might be arrested and fined for my views.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/10/attorney-general-lynch-looking-into-prosecuting-climate-change-deniers/

I had a read through that and some of its links. The climate change deniers are now seemingly arguing about how many of them there are.

That's the important thing? How many environmental scientists are saying that anthropogenic climate change is a fact?

The reality is not that hard to understand. We can measure how much greenhouse gases we are putting into the atmosphere quite easily. Ice cores give us masses of data.

So the question is do these gases create a greenhouse effect? The answer again is easily and readily available. The next question is whether it's recoverable. Well, once the ice caps melt, there's no going back.

PopePalpatine · 11-11-2016 07:26PM

marienbad wrote: »

So how can you deny the science ?

Because it's a big government conspiracy, according to the oiligators that Trump made the apex predator of the swamp he promised to drain.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 07:26PM

marienbad wrote: »

So how can you deny the science ?

Who said I'm denying science? There is all kinds of science on the matter...

Tom Harris, the executive director of the International Climate Science Coalition, along with Bob Carter, the head of the School of Earth Sciences at James Cook University in Australia, in a recent New York Post commentary flatly stated that “There is essentially zero evidence that carbon dioxide from human activities is causing catastrophic climate change.”

They noted that the Earth’s sea level is not rising in any significant fashion, “averaging about 1 millimeter per year” and that “satellites also show that a greater area of Antarctic ice exists now than any time since space-based measurements began in 1979. In other words, the ice caps aren’t melting.”

So, do you think I should be jailed?

oscarBravo · 11-11-2016 07:28PM

Amerika wrote: »

I thought I answered that before... I take it you've seen Al Gore's ‘An Inconvenient Truth?’

http://scienceline.org/2008/12/ask-rettner-sea-level-rise-al-gore-an-inconvenient-truth/

You thought a 20' sea level rise would give you a beachfront property in the mountains?

RobertKK wrote: »

Well he had to backtrack, so maybe he should have been clearer than telling some of his workers to send in their resignations.

He told them they should tender their resignations if they didn't agree with the principles of inclusion and tolerance in the workplace.

He also didn't backtrack; he pointed out that the media had misrepresented the letter.

I know, I know, these are facts. But Trump isn't President yet, so facts aren't yet illegal.

FISMA. · 11-11-2016 07:28PM

There's a reason why the word Democracy does not appear in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, nor any of the 50 States' Constitution: we're a Republic, not a democracy.

Dear Mr. Franklin, we held it for four more years!

20Cent · 11-11-2016 07:29PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Well he had to backtrack, so maybe he should have been clearer than telling some of his workers to send in their resignations.

He should be put in front of the House Un American committee Gingrich is setting up. Grill him live on tv and black list him. Trumpfreedom.

Amerika · 11-11-2016 07:30PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I had a read through that and some of its links. The climate change deniers are now seemingly arguing about how many of them there are.

That's the important thing? How many environmental scientists are saying that anthropogenic climate change is a fact?

The reality is not that hard to understand. We can measure how much greenhouse gases we are putting into the atmosphere quite easily. Ice cores give us masses of data.

So the question is do these gases create a greenhouse effect? The answer again is easily and readily available. The next question is whether it's recoverable. Well, once the ice caps melt, there's no going back.

Do you agree they should be arrested and fined?

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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