Louise O Neill on rape culture.

mzungu · 10-11-2016 02:26PM

tritium wrote: »

Do the 40% of domestic abusers who are female also have a sense of male entitlement?

Don't forget that there has been a reported higher rate of domestic abuse issues in lesbian relationships as there are in heterosexual relationships. Link: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)'s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey reports on the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner, focusing for the first time on victimization by sexual orientation. It finds a victimization prevalence of 43.8 percent for lesbians, making it the second most affected group after bisexual women (61.1 percent), ahead of bisexual men (37.3 percent), heterosexual women (35 percent), heterosexual men (29 percent) and homosexual men (26 percent).

If we are following the guidelines of some folks on this thread, it would appear that people can brand lesbian relationships as being inherently violent.

Of course, I do not believe that all lesbian relationships are violent for one second, nor do I believe a culture of violence exists within them.

This is where the entire notion of gender roles causing domestic violence falls on its head. People will behave appallingly, unfortunately. This is irregardless of their gender. So trying to blame the mystical patriarchy and forced gender roles is just a rabbit hole. Real life is complex and following ill thought out 1970s social theories like rape culture as a means to explain it, is a dead end. It is no shock that rape crisis networks worth their salt steer well clear of this labelling madness.

LLMMLL · 10-11-2016 02:26PM

Don't go out dressed like Miley Cyrus?

You know we're not talking about a guy going up to a girl, saying hello and getting rebuffed. We're talking about ass and breast grabbing, name calling, being followed and harrassed.

A girl can dress for attention if she wants and still expect not to have a strangers hand on her breast.

You seem to be part of the "well I know it wasn't her fault but did you see what she was wearing...." Brigade

Advbrd · 10-11-2016 02:26PM

demfad wrote: »

Blaming women for domestic violence and assault now?

Why don't you read a few case studies on domestic violence and try and educate yourself as to it's insidious nature.

I was never on either side of domestic violence, the only experience I have of it is my brother in law's situation where he has been browbeaten into submission over 20 years. It's easy for me to say get the fook out, but personally I would definitely run a mile at the first sign of bullying behaviour, either mental or physical. It only has an insidious nature if you let it build up.

Zulu · 10-11-2016 02:28PM

demfad wrote: »

Blaming women for domestic violence and assault now?

So women aren't abusers? Only men, right?? Wow, you must really really be afraid of men.

Why don't you read a few case studies on domestic violence and try and educate yourself as to it's insidious nature.

If you genuinely believe that women are the victims, I suggest you need further education - further away from the gender studies dept..

demfad · 10-11-2016 02:32PM

tritium wrote: »

Do the 40% of domestic abusers who are female also have a sense of male entitlement?

I'm surprised Mortpourvelo thanked this. She herself would be guilty of domestic violence is she 'smacked' an abuser back in the discredited study that produced that false statistic.

The figure for domestic violence, femicide, family annihilation, rape, hospitalisations etc etc is all well above the 90% mark. We all know this.
There are several hundred domestic violence refuges in Ireland. There was only one for males. It had to be shut down because it consistently averaged well below the 5 people needed to keep such a centre open. This reflects the reality.

demfad · 10-11-2016 02:35PM

Advbrd wrote: »

It only has an insidious nature if you let it build up.

If it's insidious you don't see it build up.
Why don't you read a case study or two and take an informed position?

Cianmcliam · 10-11-2016 02:43PM

demfad wrote: »

As has been pointed out already the main personality characteristic common to those who commit rape, domestic violence, femicide and family annihilation is a sense of male entitlement. Do you still think there isn't an issue with 'traditional' gender roles?

Not sure where you grew up, but in my youth one of the most taboo things you could do was hit a girl. That would seriously blacken your name. I can't remember a single gang of boys who thought violence against girls wasn't a strict taboo, nor was it ever seen as acceptable in popular culture.

Wibbs · 10-11-2016 02:47PM

demfad wrote: »

I'm surprised Mortpourvelo thanked this. She herself would be guilty of domestic violence is she 'smacked' an abuser back in the discredited study that produced that false statistic.

Ahhh right, so statistics are "false" if they don't agree with your feminist mantra of "women are always victims, men are always to blame"? Well this is me being shocked. Not.

There are several hundred domestic violence refuges in Ireland. There was only one for males. It had to be shut down because it consistently averaged well below the 5 people needed to keep such a centre open. This reflects the reality.

Oh it reflects a reality alright, but maybe another reality your blinkered church wants to ignore.

demfad · 10-11-2016 03:00PM

mzungu wrote: »

This is where the entire notion of gender roles causing domestic violence falls on its head. People will behave appallingly, unfortunately. This is irregardless of their gender. So trying to blame the mystical patriarchy and forced gender roles is just a rabbit hole. Real life is complex and following ill thought out 1970s social theories like rape culture as a means to explain it, is a dead end. It is no shock that rape crisis networks worth their salt steer well clear of this labelling madness.

This is a British study on family annihilation as recently as 2013.

The common characteristic of the 4 types of annihilations identified was a sense of family ownership/male entitlement. Nothing mystical about this, it is sensible and evidence based. In these cased the private reality of domestic violence is made public when the annihilation occurs. In most of these cases the murders occurred when the woman left or tried to leave the man thus breaking his control threatening his 'masculinity'.

Murder, or more bluntly, family annihilation, thus emerges in this sense as a resource to perform masculinity, when other resources have failed, are seen as being inadequate, or do not deliver the desired outcomes. In this way the annihilation makes public what had often been a private reality

demfad · 10-11-2016 03:08PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Ahhh right, so statistics are "false" if they don't agree with your feminist mantra of "women are always victims, men are always to blame"? Well this is me being shocked. Not.

Oh it reflects a reality alright, but maybe another reality your blinkered church wants to ignore.

If a man or woman who defends themselves against domestic abuse is themselves counted as an abuser in a study then this is clearly wrong. Anyone can see that.

The tiny amount of men seeking refuge tallies with the tiny amounts who needed hospitalisations, were killed etc etc. The wild outlier is the 40% figure for the reasons indicated.

10-11-2016 03:18PM

demfad wrote: »

You have put words in a person's mouth that they have not say and prescribed motives that they don't have with no reasoning or substantiation.

The president elect of the USA has talked openly about sexually assaulting women. He has been accused of same by dozens of women. Do you deny this and if not how do you explain it?

I don't deny Donald was talking about women. My friends and I talk about men and sex and what we'd like to do to them and what we would like them to do to us. Penis length, girth, if such and such was any good in bed. Sometimes we say things like 'god I'd love a good shag, yer man over there is hot wonder what he'd be like'. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

10-11-2016 03:19PM

demfad wrote: »

You have put words in a person's mouth that they have not say and prescribed motives that they don't have with no reasoning or substantiation.

The president elect of the USA has talked openly about sexually assaulting women. He has been accused of same by dozens of women. Do you deny this and if not how do you explain it?

I don't deny Donald was talking about women. My friends and I talk about men and sex and what we'd like to do to them and what we would like them to do to us. Penis length, girth, if such and such was any good in bed. Sometimes we say things like 'god I'd love a good shag, yer man over there is hot wonder what he'd be like'. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

jimgoose · 10-11-2016 03:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't deny Donald was talking about women. My friends and I talk about men and sex and what we'd like to do to them and what we would like them to do to us. Penis length, girth, if such and such was any good in bed. Sometimes we say things like 'god I'd love a good shag, yer man over there is hot wonder what he'd be like'. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Get the fudge out of my Safe Space, ye BRAZEN wan ye!! :pac:

10-11-2016 03:29PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Get the fudge out of my Safe Space, ye BRAZEN wan ye!! :pac:

demfad · 10-11-2016 03:29PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

Not sure where you grew up, but in my youth one of the most taboo things you could do was hit a girl. That would seriously blacken your name. I can't remember a single gang of boys who thought violence against girls wasn't a strict taboo, nor was it ever seen as acceptable in popular culture.

You can't have your name blackened if no-one knows it's happening.
Domestic violence isnt about hitting a woman for the sake of it. Its about control. Violence is one of the the tools available to exert control: others might be isolation, financial abuse, emotional abuse, threats, coertion. The main tool he has is slowly undermining her self confidence over time until she believes that she is the problem. It is easy to manipulate her then.

Why don'y you read up on a few real cases to inform yourself?

demfad · 10-11-2016 03:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't deny Donald was talking about women. My friends and I talk about men and sex and what we'd like to do to them and what we would like them to do to us. Penis length, girth, if such and such was any good in bed. Sometimes we say things like 'god I'd love a good shag, yer man over there is hot wonder what he'd be like'. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Have you publicly made many disparaging comments about someone just because they were men? Have you ever discussed sexually assaulting a man or boy against their will? Have you ever being accused of sexual harassing dozens of people. Have you ever being accused of raping a 13 year old minor? No?

Then compare like with like please.

Cianmcliam · 10-11-2016 03:43PM

demfad wrote: »

You can't have your name blackened if no-one knows it's happening.
Domestic violence isnt about hitting a woman for the sake of it. Its about control. Violence is one of the the tools available to exert control: others might be isolation, financial abuse, emotional abuse, threats, coertion. The main tool he has is slowly undermining her self confidence over time until she believes that she is the problem. It is easy to manipulate her then.

Why don'y you read up on a few real cases to inform yourself?

So I take it then you take back your original claim that it's because of 'traditional gender roles in our culture' and are now claiming 'it's a hidden form of control' by controlling individual personality types?

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 03:51PM

Advbrd wrote: »

I was never on either side of domestic violence, the only experience I have of it is my brother in law's situation where he has been browbeaten into submission over 20 years. It's easy for me to say get the fook out, but personally I would definitely run a mile at the first sign of bullying behaviour, either mental or physical. It only has an insidious nature if you let it build up.

Exactly!

"I'm off out"
"No, you're not"
"Yes, I am... get to ****"

OR

"I'm off out"
"No you're not"
"Okay I'll do what you want"

The second one, you deserve all you get.

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 03:53PM

demfad wrote: »

You can't have your name blackened if no-one knows it's happening.
Domestic violence isnt about hitting a woman for the sake of it. Its about control. Violence is one of the the tools available to exert control: others might be isolation, financial abuse, emotional abuse, threats, coertion. The main tool he has is slowly undermining her self confidence over time until she believes that she is the problem. It is easy to manipulate her then.

Why don'y you read up on a few real cases to inform yourself?

So perhaps we need to bring our daughters up to believe that they don't actually NEED a boyfriend and being alone and single is fine.

That way all the coercion in the world will make no difference.

Know your own mind, be responsible for yourself and don't let ANYONE tell you what to do.

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 03:54PM

demfad wrote: »

I'm surprised Mortpourvelo thanked this. She herself would be guilty of domestic violence is she 'smacked' an abuser back in the discredited study that produced that false statistic.

The figure for domestic violence, femicide, family annihilation, rape, hospitalisations etc etc is all well above the 90% mark. We all know this.
There are several hundred domestic violence refuges in Ireland. There was only one for males. It had to be shut down because it consistently averaged well below the 5 people needed to keep such a centre open. This reflects the reality.

You ever heard of self defence ???

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 03:57PM

jimgoose wrote: »

Get the fudge out of my Safe Space, ye BRAZEN wan ye!! :pac:

I want to know if tip of the iceberg is a euphemism or an accurate description!!!!!

jimgoose · 10-11-2016 04:00PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

I want to know if tip of the iceberg is a euphemism or an accurate description!!!!!

Another one, well Holy God says Miley. Excuse me, I'm off to assume the foetal position in my Positive Space while applying classical Neofeminist theory to the narrative described in my 1977 Mk. I Granada Haynes manual.

10-11-2016 04:05PM

midnight city wrote: »

It must be so easy to be a leftist in a discussion. Just put an ..ism after a word and leave it there.

Do you do irony?

You think putting -ist at the end of a word is legitimate, but not -ism?

Anyway, amused to be described as leftist. I think you may be confusing left and right with liberal and conservative. I'm a cheerleader for capitalism. But saying Le Pen is racist is hardly some left wing conspiracy theory.

Zulu · 10-11-2016 04:08PM

demfad wrote: »

You can't have your name blackened if no-one knows it's happening.
Domestic violence isnt about hitting a woman for the sake of it. Its about control. Violence is one of the the tools available to exert control: others might be isolation, financial abuse, emotional abuse, threats, coertion. The main tool he has is slowly undermining her self confidence over time until she believes that she is the problem. It is easy to manipulate her then.

Why don'y you read up on a few real cases to inform yourself?

You don't even recognise the problem with your post, do you.

Women: the perpetual victim. Really???

demfad · 10-11-2016 04:11PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Exactly!

"I'm off out"
"No you're not"
"Okay I'll do what you want"

The second one, you deserve all you get.

Why don't you inform yourself and just google why women don't leave abusive relationships before being so unpleasantly judgemental?

If you also look at case studies you will find women who thought themselves tough and independent than who have ended up in abusive relationships not recognising themselves. Stronger, tougher, more independent women than you.

You can't really say if it would or would not happen you because you don't know how such a relationship develops and you seem unwilling to find out.

OldNotWIse · 10-11-2016 04:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't deny Donald was talking about women. My friends and I talk about men and sex and what we'd like to do to them and what we would like them to do to us. Penis length, girth, if such and such was any good in bed. Sometimes we say things like 'god I'd love a good shag, yer man over there is hot wonder what he'd be like'. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Jaysus :eek: Pre-watershed too!

demfad · 10-11-2016 04:22PM

Zulu wrote: »

You don't even recognise the problem with your post, do you.

Women: the perpetual victim. Really???

I have demonstrated with substantiation and reference that gender based violence has the characteristic of male privilege and entitlement.
If you can show me any study that shows that violence that men experience from women has anything to do with female privilege then please do so.
Perhaps you should inform your argument?

noaddedsugar · 10-11-2016 04:22PM

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Exactly!

"I'm off out"
"No, you're not"
"Yes, I am... get to ****"

OR

"I'm off out"
"No you're not"
"Okay I'll do what you want"

The second one, you deserve all you get.

This is an astonishingly stupid statement.

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 04:27PM

noaddedsugar wrote: »

This is an astonishing stupid statement.

Why ? Because it asks for a certain amount of independence and self reliance ???

I am throughly sick and tired of reading stories in magazines where someone has been beaten, abused, etc and takes the f****r back!

"He seemed so genuinely sorry".

Wtf ??? Did he seem genuine when you were getting a kicking ?

Anyone who abuses someone weaker than themselves is a scumbag - gender is irrelevant.

But if you allow that person to do it again, yes you bear some responsibility.

Oh and I don't have "studies" to quote. I live in the real world not a Gender Studies Course.

Mortpourvelo · 10-11-2016 04:28PM

demfad wrote: »

I have demonstrated with substantiation and reference that gender based violence has the characteristic of male privilege and entitlement.
If you can show me any study that shows that violence that men experience from women has anything to do with female privilege then please do so.
Perhaps you should inform your opinions?

Perhaps you need to live in the real world.

Louise O Neill on rape culture.

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