2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

09-11-2016 10:26PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

How do you think this is at all possible? Just because Hillary Clinton decided to enter politics doesn't mean every FLOTUS does the same.

That's so obviously not why people are saying it.

Nobody wants Laura Bush or her mother-in-law to be President.

People are inspired by what they feel is Michelle Obama's dignity and sincerity, and her ability to connect with people as a natural leader. Unfortunately, she's probably too dignified and sincere to be a US President. So I agree she won't ever run. But people aren't saying it just because she's the First Lady.

TheOven · 09-11-2016 10:27PM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

How fortunate for Trump that he's picked a VP that's even worse than himself.

The last time the GOP controlled the Presidency, both Houses of Congress and the SCOTUS was 1928. Guess what happened next?

Im sure it was a period of prosperity for the working class.

aloyisious wrote: »

I added in a 3rd para to my original.

He has already been provided with his SC picks. Establishment GOP will be covering the details of policy seeing as Trump is still figuring out if the wall is physical or metaphorical. People can pretend they voted anti establishment but Trump said he would surround himself by the best, and to him the best is the GOP establishment.

Amerika · 09-11-2016 10:31PM

Stheno wrote: »

Seriously? You want to be governed by something hundreds of years old?

You betcha. The Founding Fathers were some of the greatest collection of minds the world has ever witnessed. And besides, I liked being governed by Ronald Reagan. :P

ancapailldorcha · 09-11-2016 10:32PM

Stheno wrote: »

Seriously? You want to be governed by something hundreds of years old?

I've never understood this sometimes near slavish devotion to the constitution and the founding fathers. The founding fathers are often mentioned as if they're the definitive authority in all matters akin to a Catholic mentioning the pope's opinion on something.

CMOTDibbler · 09-11-2016 10:38PM

TheOven wrote: »

He has already been provided with his SC picks. Establishment GOP will be covering the details of policy seeing as Trump is still figuring out if the wall is physical or metaphorical. People can pretend they voted anti establishment but Trump said he would surround himself by the best, and to him the best is the GOP establishment.

Is it? He's had a go at pretty much the whole GOP establishment.

TheOven · 09-11-2016 10:38PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've never understood this sometimes near slavish devotion to the constitution and the founding fathers. The founding fathers are often mentioned as if they're the definitive authority in all matters akin to a Catholic mentioning the pope's opinion on something.

They love some of those amendments though.

TheOven · 09-11-2016 10:40PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Is it? He's had a go at pretty much the whole GOP establishment.

Except those who stayed with him. The GOP will fall into line.

Brian? · 09-11-2016 10:42PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've never understood this sometimes near slavish devotion to the constitution and the founding fathers. The founding fathers are often mentioned as if they're the definitive authority in all matters akin to a Catholic mentioning the pope's opinion on something.

It's a quasi religious cult. Even down to fact that it's never written as founding fathers but capitalised as "Founding Fathers ". Implying divinity.

Funny you should use the words "slavish devotion" as well. This group of men who are imbued with such all seeing wisdom were almost all slave owners. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...", not the ones we own and keep as property though!

26000 Elephants · 09-11-2016 10:43PM

Amerika wrote: »

[I am] opposed to the idea that the judiciary can modify the meaning of constitutional provisions to adapt them to changing times.

Wow. Sounds like Sharia law would be just up your street. How would you look with a beard?

ancapailldorcha · 09-11-2016 10:43PM

Brian? wrote: »

It's a quasi religious cult. Even down to fact that it's never written as founding fathers but capitalised as "Founding Fathers ". Implying divinity.

Funny you should use the words "slavish devotion" as well. This group of men who are imbued with such all seeing wisdom were almost all slave owners. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...", not the ones we own and keep as property though!

That alone would cast the document into doubt in my opinion. If they couldn't see the ethical problem with slavery then they can't have been too intelligent in my opinion.

aloyisious · 09-11-2016 10:43PM

Amerika wrote: »

I want a judge that believed that the ordinary meaning of the US Constitution should govern, be opposed to the idea of a living constitution, and opposed to the idea that the judiciary can modify the meaning of constitutional provisions to adapt them to changing times.

Don't the various amendments mean the constitution is a living constitution, something not written in stone?

I'm looking at Article Three of the constitution which sets out what the SC can make judgements on and it seems to have the power, under it, to make determinations when it comes to actual cases and differences between different parties when it comes to citizens rights under the constitution. I'm no constitutional lawyer so will rely on wiser minds about it.

Lol at your admiration of the elderly governors......

Brian? · 09-11-2016 10:44PM

TheOven wrote: »

They love some of those amendments though.

The founding fathers knew the Constitution would need to be updated and amended as time passed. They knew they weren't all knowing, somehow this is ignored by strict constructionists.

Brian? · 09-11-2016 10:47PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Don't the various amendments mean the constitution is a living constitution, something not written in stone?

I'm looking at Article Three of the constitution which sets out what the SC can make judgements on and it seems to have the power, under it, to make determinations when it comes to actual cases and differences between different parties when it comes to citizens rights under the constitution. I'm no constitutional lawyer so will rely on wiser minds about it.

At the very dark heart of conservatism is opposition to change. To conserve the values set down in an 18th century document. Progress is anti conservative.

26000 Elephants · 09-11-2016 10:52PM

Brian? wrote: »

At the very dark heart of conservatism is opposition to change. To conserve the values set down in an 18th century document. Progress is anti conservative.

And that is the core of Fundamentalism. And Fundamentalism is at the heart of our problems.

Put 'fundamentalist' in front of the most innocent idea and it becomes dangerous.

Overheal · 09-11-2016 10:55PM

If we went to living document mode you'd need a well regulated militia. We've been down this road. Don't think too many judges believe the constitution is not a living document. It's designed as one.

Suryavarman · 09-11-2016 10:56PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That alone would cast the document into doubt in my opinion. If they couldn't see the ethical problem with slavery then they can't have been too intelligent in my opinion.

They did see the problem with which is why they compromised and counted slaves as 3/5th of a person for census purposes thus reducing the political power held by slave states.

Jawgap · 09-11-2016 11:02PM

A foretaste of what's to come......

"Trump Picks Top Climate Skeptic to Lead EPA Transition"

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

"Donald Trump has selected one of the best-known climate skeptics to lead his U.S. EPA transition team, according to two sources close to the campaign.
Myron Ebell, director of the Center for Energy and Environment at the conservative Competitive Enterprise Institute, is spearheading Trump’s transition plans for EPA, the sources said.

The Trump team has also lined up leaders for its Energy Department and Interior Department teams. Republican energy lobbyist Mike McKenna is heading the DOE team; former Interior Department solicitor David Bernhardt is leading the effort for that agency, according to sources close to the campaign.

Ebell is a well-known and polarizing figure in the energy and environment realm. His participation in the EPA transition signals that the Trump team is looking to drastically reshape the climate policies the agency has pursued under the Obama administration. Ebell’s role is likely to infuriate environmentalists and Democrats but buoy critics of Obama’s climate rules."

devnull · 09-11-2016 11:10PM

You'd have to say though, how can Trump keep his businesses running the way they are now?

Surely there would be some kind of conflict of interest?

TheOven · 09-11-2016 11:16PM

Newt Gingrich as SoS. Wow, calm down donald. The establishment stands no chance.

Stheno · 09-11-2016 11:17PM

devnull wrote: »

You'd have to say though, how can Trump keep his businesses running the way they are now?

Surely there would be some kind of conflict of interest?

I think he's supposed to set up what is called a blind trust to run then where he has no involvement but allegedly he is getting his adult children to run them

Any truth in the rumors he is going to appoint gingrich and guilani to his cabinet? I've vague memories of gingrich in the past and he was a horror very far right

26000 Elephants · 09-11-2016 11:21PM

John Ashcroft, former attorney general, asked to investigate Myron Ebell

It appears that certain White House officials [Cooney] conspired with an anti-environmental special interest group [Myron] to cause the lawsuit to be filed against the federal government.
The idea that the Bush Administration may have invited a lawsuit from a special interest group in order to undermine the federal government's own work under an international treaty is very troubling.

We believe an investigation is necessary to determine whether the idea of this lawsuit came from the White House itself, and if so, whether it represents improper conduct by public officials.

The swamp is filling up nicely. Ebell isnt even a scientist - he got an arts degree in philosophy . Good man.

Source for above (PDF)

vetinari · 09-11-2016 11:23PM

TheOven wrote: »

Newt Gingrich as SoS. Wow, calm down donald. The establishment stands no chance.

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Newt was house speaker, about as establishment as you can get. Amazing that he was able to brand himself as "non establishment"

TheOven · 09-11-2016 11:23PM

Brian? wrote: »

The founding fathers knew the Constitution would need to be updated and amended as time passed. They knew they weren't all knowing, somehow this is ignored by strict constructionists.

It would take some amount of arrogance for a person or group to put something like that together and think it would never need to be updated for hundreds of years into the future.

Stheno wrote: »

I think he's supposed to set up what is called a blind trust to run then where he has no involvement but allegedly he is getting his adult children to run them

Any truth in the rumors he is going to appoint gingrich and guilani to his cabinet? I've vague memories of gingrich in the past and he was a horror very far right

My mistake, seems he is just the favourite for the position. According to him what I feel is more important than reality so I can always feel like replacing him.

TheOven · 09-11-2016 11:25PM

vetinari wrote: »

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. Newt was house speaker, about as establishment as you can get. Amazing that he was able to brand himself as "non establishment"

Very sarcastic. Can't really get deadpan through typing.

I'll be very surprised if any non establishment get in. Kind of need them if you want to get anything done.

LostinKildare · 09-11-2016 11:27PM

marienbad wrote: »

Can I ask our American friends now that the GOP have swept the board for their thoughts after this extraordinary night ?

So, so disappointed in my country that we didn't rise above it all and reject this grotesque embodiment of the ugliest impulses of the Ugly American --- greed, proud ignorance, narcissism, misogyny, racism, xenophobia.

Remember when Michael D Higgins contrasted the "good, decent Americans" with the "**** whipping up fear"? The **** won.
I'm heartsick.

And fearful about what's going to happen in the US over the next four years. I'm relieved I'm not living there now; it's going to be brutal for a lot of people, and the damage to the nation will be long-lasting.

Stheno · 09-11-2016 11:31PM

Does anyone think a woman will occupy a cabinet position of significance?

vetinari · 09-11-2016 11:31PM

Yeah, I've also seen a story that mentioned Steven Mnuchin will be treasury secretary.
He only spent about 15 years at Goldman Sachs. Remind me who the anti establishment candidate was again?

StringerBell · 09-11-2016 11:33PM

devnull wrote: »

You'd have to say though, how can Trump keep his businesses running the way they are now?

Surely there would be some kind of conflict of interest?

He only owns a very small percentage of Trump enterprises at this point, I would assume he will pass it on to the family, who will assure you he has nothing to do with the day to day running of the business or have any inside knowledge.

vetinari · 09-11-2016 11:33PM

Stheno wrote: »

Does anyone think a woman will occupy a cabinet position of significance?

I'd be surprised, none have been mentioned thus far.
My bet is an old white man sweep in terms of the cabinet.

ECO_Mental · 09-11-2016 11:38PM

Good luck to the Donald..... you know what they say about people who get their wishes!

Trump is soon going to find out all about the pressure cooker and bubble being the president of the US is.

First thing they are going to do is take his phone off him (no more twitter)

He will have to concentrate for more than 10mins at a time (this is a big struggle for him).

He will now have to release his tax returns(this will be interesting)

He will soon discover that Mexico will never pay for that F**king Wall

He will never be able to deport millions of immigrants.

I could go on and on but he will never be able to fulfil a fraction of his promises. I am sick of pundits' also saying that he understands the working man "he connected with them" bull****! What happened was words(insults) fell out of his mouth and a certain section of people found it entertaining. It them snowballed from there. We are now living in an age where a lot of people are getting their information and news from twitter/Facebook/conspiracy websites etc and they are not spending their time actually finding out the facts. (I mean we had people on here saying that Bill Clinton was running a Pedo sex ring.

I feel sorry for the people who Trump fooled and was supposed to be standing up for

On BBC tonight they went to the rust belt and they talked to this poor man getting food stamps and he was convinced that Trump was going to sort out his problems etc because he's a business man!

I think Hillary is a good person who has been attacked for 30 solid years from the GOP. She ran a great campaign and she demolished trump in all the debates. But one thing (and 16 GOP politicians') could not see was how low in the gutter trump was willing to go! They had no defence, but she did have a good go those debates were brilliant

but then COMEY out of left field a week before the election he puts out a b***sh** letter and that what ****Ed her.

I'm sick really, but lucky I don't have to live im the US and i won't be posting on here again for a while. But I will look forward to his fraud trial and tax returns:)

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Comments