Xenon v LED Lights

grogi · 09-11-2016 02:27PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I don't think LEDs* will be a standard, replaceable bulb - they will be custom "driver + LED" modules made to fit Car X. You better hope they don't fail outside warranty. If there was some requirement for LED lamps to be covered by warranty for a longer period than the main warranty that would be decent enough. However I can't see the EU doing this really.

This... Few years down the line and a broken light will equal Cat C/D write-off.

I've seen once an interview with a designer for Ferrari... He said, and that applies to whole industry, not only luxury brands, that they are tasked to design expensive equipment that can be justified by claiming increased safety. LED lights fit that bill extremely well...

Tropheus · 09-11-2016 06:03PM

I wonder if we'll see after market LED upgrades for factory xenons? This thread would make me think twice about going down that line.

I have to say the xenons on the Superb are the best I've seen. My wife has one and the light output is incredible. Way above anything my Allroad is capable of.

GustavoFring · 09-11-2016 07:48PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Because they are under the 2000 lumen threshold of light output?

If they produced as many lumens as 35W Xenons then they would need washers and self leveling from my understanding of the requirements.

The thing about HIDs is that they are a standard bulb size (s?). If you need a new bulb or a something goes wrong with ballasts you have options other than the main dealer.

I don't think LEDs* will be a standard, replaceable bulb - they will be custom "driver + LED" modules made to fit Car X. You better hope they don't fail outside warranty. If there was some requirement for LED lamps to be covered by warranty for a longer period than the main warranty that would be decent enough. However I can't see the EU doing this really.

*I don't mean eBay tat

I believe that's one of the reasons yes. The same applies to xenon's under 2000 lumens.

I got a bit nosey one day with the Leon I hads lights. I had a few bits off the front so took the light off for a gander. There's no way in hell you could replace the LEDs without breaking the light beyond repair. There's been a few fail on owners forums within warranty (luckily) and when they asked how much a replacement was they were up to a grand sterling.

Oafley Jones · 09-11-2016 08:33PM

Tropheus wrote: »

I wonder if we'll see after market LED upgrades for factory xenons? This thread would make me think twice about going down that line.

I have to say the xenons on the Superb are the best I've seen. My wife has one and the light output is incredible. Way above anything my Allroad is capable of.

Superb's Xenons are excellent alright. Think they outclass even the ones on the Discovery.

The high horse brigade · 09-11-2016 08:52PM

I have a Mazda 6 with xenons with the Adaptive front-lighting system which is excellent, turns the lights up to 15 degrees into the corners as you steer. I expected this to be the norm from now on

bazz26 · 09-11-2016 09:03PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I have a Mazda 6 with xenons with the Adaptive front-lighting system which is excellent, turns the lights up to 15 degrees into the corners as you steer. I expected this to be the norm from now on

They were replaced on the 6 with adaptive LED headlights when it got facelifted last year, I imagine the CX-5 has the same type system.

Micky 32 · 09-11-2016 09:52PM

I have B7 Passat with xenons. A friend has a B8 Passat with premium LED lights. Dips are approx the same but the headlights HUGE difference they are brilliant!

Special Circumstances · 09-11-2016 10:34PM

Tropheus wrote: »

I wonder if we'll see after market LED upgrades for factory xenons? This thread would make me think twice about going down that line.

I've yet to see a LED retrofit for H7 or whatever bulb that wasn't pure eBay tat, I can't see any decent quality drop in replacement for HID bulbs being anywhere near as bright or as good.

I presume, and gustavo frings poking supports this, that the factory fit LED lamps are pretty much sealed units and specific to a particular model. There are drivers, heat sinking, correct focal point to consider when trying to retrofit LEDs as a H7 or D2S or whatever, all this are built into the lamp unit for factory LEDs. (Caution, much guesswork and supposing)

newacc2015 · 09-11-2016 10:37PM

GustavoFring wrote: »

They can be expensive to replace, about €100 a side. But tbh...I've replaced two over the years when one failed. I'd have spent more money on night breakers for the placebo effect.

I know someone who had a Renault. To replace a Xenon lightbulb, it was €500. I thought they were BSing, until they showed me the receipt from the dealership. Since Renaults are so poorly made, you had to replace more than just the bulb

grogi · 09-11-2016 10:46PM

newacc2015 wrote: »

I know someone who had a Renault. To replace a Xenon lightbulb, it was €500. I thought they were BSing, until they showed me the receipt from the dealership. Since Renaults are so poorly made, you had to replace more than just the bulb

The bulbs are less than hundred a piece... But if he is rich enough to pay dealer prices...

GustavoFring · 09-11-2016 10:49PM

newacc2015 wrote: »

I know someone who had a Renault. To replace a Xenon lightbulb, it was €500. I thought they were BSing, until they showed me the receipt from the dealership. Since Renaults are so poorly made, you had to replace more than just the bulb

That doesn't make any sense. There was more work done or else they got shafted.

bazz26 · 09-11-2016 10:55PM

They must or would want to have replaced the entire headlight unit for that sort of money.

Even the likes of BMW don't charge that for a xenon bulb, they run regular winter offers of replacing blown bulbs including xenons free of charge. They certainly would not be doing it if they were costing that much. I priced a pair of proper brand xenons like Philips or Osram online for my F10 and they were coming in at under €100 delivered.

JoeA3 · 09-11-2016 10:56PM

newacc2015 wrote: »

I know someone who had a Renault. To replace a Xenon lightbulb, it was €500. I thought they were BSing, until they showed me the receipt from the dealership. Since Renaults are so poorly made, you had to replace more than just the bulb

The xenon bulbs are mad money from the dealers. I'm talking €200+ per bulb. You could probably do better on eBay but I'm not sure what the quality would be like. I've read that it's a good idea to replace them in pairs as the xenon's light output does degrade and change colour over time so you'd have mis matched bulbs.

Then there's actually fitting them. Renault aren't alone in the stupid design stakes. The front bumper, grills, etc has to come off in order to access the headlight properly across many marques! That's 2+ hours labour!

In summary - the €500 bill doesn't surprise me.

Voodoomelon · 09-11-2016 11:06PM

BMW charge €295 for a d1s xenon. You can get the exact same OEM bulb online for €50. Nothing cheap about adaptive xenons either, so can't see LEDs being much more, if not cheaper.

Ded_Zebra · 09-11-2016 11:23PM

One of the main reasons manufacturer's are using LED headlights is because they can classify them as an "eco innovation" when coupled with a highly efficient alternator. Basically once they prove through the emissions testing of the vehicle that they save 1g of CO2 per km they can count it as a carbon saving on their range.

grogi · 10-11-2016 12:25AM

JoeA3 wrote: »

The xenon bulbs are mad money from the dealers. I'm talking €200+ per bulb. You could probably do better on eBay but I'm not sure what the quality would be like.

eBay might not be the best option, but here without much effort...

D1S for 43 GBP: https://www.amazon.co.uk/BREAKER-UNLIMITED-headlight-66140XNB-folding/dp/B00HWWX7R2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478733831&sr=8-1&keywords=d1s&th=1

D2S for 65 GBP: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-Xenon-X-tremeVision-85122XVS1-Light/dp/B009HL9L4O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1478733832&sr=8-2&keywords=d2s

D3S for 58 GBP: https://www.amazon.co.uk/XENARC-ORIGINAL-headlight-folding-carton/dp/B007A0UW2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478733839&sr=8-1&keywords=d3s

Just as examples, all good brands.

wotswattage · 10-11-2016 12:25AM

I'd have major concerns with LED lights degrading over time. Any LED powered flashlight (and not just cheap ones) I've owned seems to degrade significantly over time, while they'll never actually fail they get dimmer and dimmer. Anyone else see this? Im envisaging cars driving round with shockingly poor lights in a few years time!?!

Also re xenons, I have xenon dipped beams in my car and while they are decent I wouldn't rate them as highly as some of the halogen setups I've come across over the years. Xenon isn't automatically = better in all cases...

Voodoomelon · 10-11-2016 12:32AM

I've had a Klarus flashlight for 4 years, CREE LED, as ridiculously bright as it was at the start and it gets used a lot.

wotswattage · 10-11-2016 12:33AM

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

One of the main reasons manufacturer's are using LED headlights is because they can classify them as an "eco innovation" when coupled with a highly efficient alternator. Basically once they prove through the emissions testing of the vehicle that they save 1g of CO2 per km they can count it as a carbon saving on their range.

I remember an Audi ad a while back they were claiming that the LED drl lights were a big step forward for energy consumption. Basically they went from no drl lights (and no extra power consumption) to drls (using power) and boasted about it being a power saving innovation ?!?!

R.O.R · 10-11-2016 11:17AM

I got a DS1 Xenon from our local motor factors for €59 (dropped in to me as well). Previous bulb had been done under Volvo warranty and I could see that invoice - €154.40 + 13.5% VAT

Was driving a new S90 with LED lights last night / this morning - much better light than the Halogens in my 5 Series, and seemed on par with the Xenon's in the wife's XC60. Lots of fancy settings as well for the speed of turning etc.

Xenon v LED Lights

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