What am I after doing?

LegacyUser · 08-11-2016 12:13PM #1

Hi there,
Regular poster here. But so ashamed and down, so going to post anon.
Spent last night in tears over what a fool I have been.

I met a guy 10 months ago. Really fell for him. All was going great-but about 4/5 months in, he decided he didn’t want a relationship. I on the other hand did. So, it hurt. But, I really, really tried to remain friendly with him. To the point that we’d talk/chat all day, every day. Last week, I happened to be in the area he lived, and suggested to meet (hadn’t seen him in 2 months). We ended up sleeping together. It shocked me cause I didn’t think I could do that. All the good work Id put into reframing him as a friend just vanished. Last night, it came to a head. He still doesn’t want anything. At most a friendship. But, its so hard. I really don’t want to lose him from my life, but am hurting so much. He just didn’t want…me (he says he doesn’t want any relationship with anyone right now).

All the flags…all the warning signs were there. If it was me looking in on this post, I’d be like “did you not see all the flags!” I’ve told him its his loss, it really is. But, at the same time I’m so conflicted, because he just isn’t ready (and I doubt now it will ever be with me).
I’m in my 30s, and never had an experience like this before.

Merkin · 08-11-2016 12:58PM

I think your only chance of feeling better and moving on is when you decide to be honest with yourself once and for all.

You have gone to pretty serious lengths to remain friends, to the point of talking constantly etc. But while he may have gone along with this you have, all along, harboured hopes of a reconciliation. I think a lot of people in light of a breakup endeavour to be friends but it ultimately installs false hope and messes with people's heads. Sleeping with him merely elucidated the fact that it's still over, regardless of you fostering a false sense of intimacy through regular contact etc.

You need to accept that it is over once and for all. It's actually good that you had a cry because it might now be registering with you that it is actually over. You're obviously extremely upset and break ups are horrible but you are now having a delayed response because you finally might believe it to be true and see it for what it is.

You will be fine though.:)

Cut contact once and for all. Forget trying to be friends. Meet up with your best girlfriends for a shoulder to cry on and copious amounts of wine and you will get there. But it's imperative that you now leave him alone and forget trying to have any kind of relationship with him.

timmy880 · 08-11-2016 01:05PM

Sometimes rejection can lead to infatuation and your feelings get mixed up. To be honest, trying to maintain the friendship was never going to work when you had such strong feelings for him and he didn't want you back.

Best to somehow find a way to move on from this and leave this guy in the past. You could risk ending up in similar situations with him again in the future. I don't think you need to be calling yourself foolish. Sometimes feeling can get the better of us and things like this happen. Best to learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again. You deserve better than a guy who just wants casual encounters rather than committing to you.

Hope you feel better soon!

Calypso Realm · 08-11-2016 02:29PM

WhatamIaftedoing? wrote: »

.

But, I really, really tried to remain friendly with him. To the point that weâ€™d talk/chat all day, every day..

Exes do this all the time in the hope the other will change their minds about the relationship BUT conversely by remaining in contact and available you're not providing any incentive at all for the other person to reconsider their decision! Sometimes we don't truly realise what we had until it's gone and find we miss the other person in our lives. Of course, I'm not saying this happens to all couples who break up but it does in those instances where they eventually get back together! For this reason and more importantly to enable you to move on, going NC is always the best option.

I'm sorry this has happened OP but from now on I'd cut ALL contact with him!

LegacyUser · 08-11-2016 02:41PM

Go easy on yourself. At worst, you wasted a bit of time hoping he would change his mind and made a mistake by spending the night with him. A bit hurtful to you, but not the worst you could do and you need to stop beating yourself up. Learn a lesson from it and the next time someone says they don't want a relationship, listen the first time and don't waste time looking back.

gossamer · 08-11-2016 02:42PM

Merkin wrote: »

Cut contact once and for all. Forget trying to be friends.

+1 on this.

Cutting contact completely is the only way to give yourself a chance to finally get over him. I wouldn't view him as a worthy friend either, not to demonise the guy, but he willingly slept with you probably knowing full well you still held a torch for him and then rejected you for a second time. Don't let him do that to you again. Take care of yourself first and foremost and don't dwell on "losing him". He's not as much of a catch as you think he is.

njs030 · 08-11-2016 02:49PM

Op he's been honest with you all along, he said he didn't want a relationship, you made the choice to be "best friends" and even to sleep with him knowing this. Why did you expect things to change?
You're not the first person to think this tactic (for want of a better word) will work but it almost never does.

It's a harsh lesson and you're obviously very upset but men usually mean what they say, you do need to just listen and accept it.
He doesn't want a relationship with you. That's it I'm afraid.

Time to walk away and meet someone who's worth it.

Ursus Horribilis · 08-11-2016 05:59PM

WhatamIaftedoing? wrote: »

All the good work I'd put into reframing him as a friend just vanished.

Ah you don't really believe that, do you? You were hoping that if you hung around long enough, he'd come to his senses and change his mind. It's not his friendship you're looking for. You don't want to be his friend.

The phrase "I don't want a relationship" has two silent words tacked onto the end. "With you" . If this guy had liked you enough he would not have let you go slip through his fingers. The heart is a delusional thing and it can be hard to accept that the person you like isn't interested. Rejection hurts but ultimately it's less damaging than false hope.

amtc · 08-11-2016 08:47PM

I really really feel for you.

I've been there. Went from best friends to relationship then things got complicated. Back to best friends, except I used him as substitute boy friend. It took another friend to point this out. I had to cut contact (for myself).

Just mind yourself.

beks101 · 08-11-2016 09:30PM

Sounds like a classic case of unrequited feelings to me. I think when you're dating it's inevitable that you'll go through this on both sides - the "he's lovely but" and the "WHY DOESN'T HE LOVE ME??!" side, it's kind of like a rite of passage if you're single and dating for any period of time.

Just take the lesson this is handing to you and move on. "Let's be friends" is a tired old cliche designed to soften the blow and it never works when you've fallen hard for someone. You can't magic the feelings away so your only option is to cut contact and move on.

The other lesson is - listen to what someone tells you about themselves. Really listen. This guy couldn't have been more clear about not wanting a relationship, but your feelings twisted that into a situation where perhaps you could change him, maybe he just needs more convincing, maybe if we get close as friends etc etc. He may well meet the woman of his dreams next week and his situation would change. (Been there, done that!) But it won't with you. And not accepting it is to prolong the pain and sell yourself so short and damage your own self-esteem in the long run.

It's OK to feel strongly for someone who doesn't feel the same about you. It doesn't reflect on you, who you are or what you're worth. It's just life, it's just dating, it's the luck of the draw. You've probably been on the other side of that fence many times. It just kind of sucks twenty times more to be the one with the feelings. But they fade with time and distance. And IME it happens a lot faster than you ever expect it will.

LegacyUser · 08-11-2016 11:05PM

First of all, thanks very much folks for your time in replying to me.

When we started out, I asked him if we were on the same page (with a view to a potential relationship). He said he was. It was a good 6 months in before he became aware he was not ready. I'd developed feelings by then. He hit the hills.

Just a couple of things. It was not premeditated by me to sleep with him. Genuninely wasnt. I genuinely like him as a person. I guess the moment/familiarity swept me up.

He says he is terrified of another relationship. He has had a string of bad relationships, and mistrust in women. Maybe that is code for "I dont want a relationship with you". He cant commit. Ok-all this is his problem. I cant fix that. He has to change that.

I have been seeing someone/talking to a professional about all this, and it was suggested to me (through questioning) that I could reframe as a friend. And, although difficult, I felt I was doing fine. The point was, why loose someone from your life just because you have feelings for them (even unrequited). That can be dealt with (at a pace/in time). Has anyone tried such an approach (not just the "cut them off" option?)

marykitty47 · 09-11-2016 01:07AM

Hi OP I went through exactly the same things as you approximately 2 years ago, it went on for 3 years I was nieve very nieve for 2.5 years! he kept me dangling.with the while let's be friends thing and I no now he was been selfish and I presume loving the attention knowing I had feelings for him. I eventually walked away it wasn't an easy decision but I knew I had to do it for myself I was mentally and emotionally drained! He kept texting trying to.meet up but I ignored it.

2 years on I am.the happiest I have ever been met the most amazing guy..Walk away you deserve so much better then this you can't be friends with someone who have feelings for. Take advice from what is said above, don't wait around for him he will never change his mind and your.putting your life on hold for someone that.doesn't deserve you.

Merkin · 09-11-2016 10:08AM

WhatamIaftedoing? wrote: »

First of all, thanks very much folks for your time in replying to me.

When we started out, I asked him if we were on the same page (with a view to a potential relationship). He said he was. It was a good 6 months in before he became aware he was not ready. I'd developed feelings by then. He hit the hills.

Just a couple of things. It was not premeditated by me to sleep with him. Genuninely wasnt. I genuinely like him as a person. I guess the moment/familiarity swept me up.

He says he is terrified of another relationship. He has had a string of bad relationships, and mistrust in women. Maybe that is code for "I dont want a relationship with you". He cant commit. Ok-all this is his problem. I cant fix that. He has to change that.

I have been seeing someone/talking to a professional about all this, and it was suggested to me (through questioning) that I could reframe as a friend. And, although difficult, I felt I was doing fine. The point was, why loose someone from your life just because you have feelings for them (even unrequited). That can be dealt with (at a pace/in time). Has anyone tried such an approach (not just the "cut them off" option?)

Oh dear. You really don't seem to get it and the advice you were given about reframing this person as a friend is downright crackers. Why would you be at pains to be friends with someone who doesn't deem you good enough to be their girlfriend?

Why exactly are you so keen to be 'friends' with this person? On what basis? Because the only obvious one is that you're hoping to hang around long enough for them to change their mind about you and their feelings for you. This would be both dishonest and foolish. I don't envisage one person is going to reply to you and say that this tactic has worked for them.

Why the abject refusal to let this one go?

njs030 · 09-11-2016 10:34AM

WhatamIaftedoing? wrote: »

First of all, thanks very much folks for your time in replying to me.

When we started out, I asked him if we were on the same page (with a view to a potential relationship). He said he was. It was a good 6 months in before he became aware he was not ready. I'd developed feelings by then. He hit the hills.

Just a couple of things. It was not premeditated by me to sleep with him. Genuninely wasnt. I genuinely like him as a person. I guess the moment/familiarity swept me up.

He says he is terrified of another relationship. He has had a string of bad relationships, and mistrust in women. Maybe that is code for "I dont want a relationship with you". He cant commit. Ok-all this is his problem. I cant fix that. He has to change that.

I have been seeing someone/talking to a professional about all this, and it was suggested to me (through questioning) that I could reframe as a friend. And, although difficult, I felt I was doing fine. The point was, why loose someone from your life just because you have feelings for them (even unrequited). That can be dealt with (at a pace/in time). Has anyone tried such an approach (not just the "cut them off" option?)

Op lots of people have bad relationships but when they meet someone they like they don't let them get away. He's not trying to fix it because he doesn't want to.

The counsellor suggested this? Or you suggested it? Actually it's a very good idea to cut someone out of your life if you have feelings for them that aren't returned, it's usually the first thing you're told to do.

Have a think about how you'll feel when he meets someone he does want a relationship with. They always do in the end.

Big Bag of Chips · 09-11-2016 11:46AM

WhatamIaftedoing? wrote: »

I have been seeing someone/talking to a professional about all this, and it was suggested to me (through questioning) that I could reframe as a friend.

If you're at the stage where you are having to speak to a professional about this then you are not in a place to be friends with him. Friendship should be natural and easy and comfortable. Not something you feel you have to force yourself (or "reframe"?) and think you were "doing fine" with!

You say you weren't looking to sleep with him. That you were ok with being friends, or at least trying to be ok with it. What, if after sleeping with you, he told you he wanted to be with you and have a proper relationship? Would you have declined because you just want to be friends? Or would you have been thrilled?

You're not friends with this fella. You can't be. You are holding out for something more, and when he realises he is ready for a relationship, but that relationship will be with someone else, then you will be crushed and thinking "well he used to tell me he wasn't ready. Now he's ready so why not be with me".

He's just not that into you.

If he was he'd be ready. You are trying to convince yourself you are ok with being friends. But you're hanging around, waiting. Have you been seeing anyone else? He will break your heart. And it won't be his fault. He's trying to let you down gently with the "not ready" talk. I'm not going to blame him for sleeping with you when he's not interested in a relationship. You were a willing participant knowing that you weren't going to be a couple (or were you still hoping?)

He will meet a girl who he will fall for. And you will either have to sit on the sidelines, smiling. Or, what is more likely to happen, you will be dropped because he now has a gf and hasn't as much time to meet up with you.

Whatever way you look at this, OP, in 3 or 4 years time you are unlikely to be an important person in his life.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 01:59PM

What everyone else has said OP - if he wanted to be with you, he would be. I know it's a horrible thing to face, and he's given you enough 'kind' excuses to make you think maybe there might be a chance sometime/somewhere/somehow, but you deserve better than this. You deserve someone who chooses you. This thing about being scared of a relationship or fearful of meeting a woman who mistreats him - believe me when I say when he meets the right woman he'll feel the fear but do it anyway.

I came out of a similar thing a couple of years ago and I'll share an analogy my counsellor used - I couldn't understand how we could go from being so involved with each other to nothing at all. We tried to be friends and couldn't for the same reason you can't. My counsellor reminded me of college friends, you know, you're in the thick of things together for a while, in each other's pockets, your social lives revolve around each other and your shared interests. He then asked was I still friends with my college crew and I said...of course! He asked if I see them...no, but we're Facebook friends! He asked do I talk to them...I said not really (even on Facebook). He asked do I miss them and I said...no. His point was that there's nothing wrong with letting people go from your life, it's part of it. People come and go along the way.

The greatest gift this guy will ever give you is telling you the truth about not wanting to be with you, and the greatest gift you'll ever give yourself is to believe him. You'll be ok in time, and your journey starts by letting him go....completely. Don't beat yourself up for falling into bed with him, plenty of us have been there (and are facepalming at the thought of having done it!!)

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 02:15PM

Merkin wrote: »

Why would you be at pains to be friends with someone who doesn't deem you good enough to be their girlfriend?

100% this. OP, as someone who has been where you are right now, it's a really sh1tty place to be. Continuing to be friends with this fella will only reinforce the feeling of not being good enough. Good enough for a friend but not worthy of being a girlfriend. And as another poster said he *will* meet someone and it will hurt so much. Do not try to be friends with this man, if you think you feel bad now, wait for a few months down the line when he's met someone else. It's an awful place to be but you have the power to make things better.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 02:46PM

Hi op,

I just want to go against the grain here and say that absolutely, it is possible
To be friends with people who have hurt you in the past. In fact, these can turn out to be the most rewarding friendships you could ever have. Some of mine are living examples of it. So this was probably the position from which you have been advised to reframe the relationship. However, and this is very important! you do need to have enough love for yourself to be able to see you are worth more than being dicked around by a man for his ego validation. (That is not usually achieved without a period of no contact, btw). Once you realise the above , the dynamic of that friendship will immediately change to your benefit - it is actually quite extraordinary and a very empowering experience, so I do recommend it wholeheartedly!

I have two men in particular among my friends, who have both hurt me in the past, all the variations on the usual "not ready for a relationship" but were ready enough when the next girl came along. How you deal with that is to distance yourself emotionally, and it is more easily said than done, I know, but once you know you are worth so much more than ending up with a man who was using you, you will end up being the one who is laughing, believe me!

Because it takes a certain kind of guy to be playing this "not ready", ego stroking game with a girl. The kind of guy whose ego is fragile and needs stroking and validating. For this kind of guy, one woman's attention is usually not enough. Both these guys who I am friends with and who have moved on from me into serious, "committed" relationships ended up seeking me out again, even to the detriment of their new relationships. Why? Because, unlike their OHs, I don't give a feck any more, and that is one thing a man with a fragile, attention-seeking ego can't stand to not try and rectify! So I, ironically, at the end of all bellyaching and messing about, ended up being an interesting proposition for both of them, and what I absolutely love doing is going to them with my romantic problems and watching them fight their inner attention-seeking, self-centred dick in trying to be a proper friend and advise me on how to deal with another man!

With this kind of man, only the "treat them mean, keep them keen" applies to get any sort of satisfaction out of them

Believe me one more thing, whichever girl ends up with the honour of being yer man's OH, you can feel sorry for her. (That's how I feel about both the OH's of my friends in question. One of them is being cheated on constantly, and the other one is on her merry way to the same honour, it's just a question of time.) It's all inevitable, really. She will be in the same position you are in now, in thrall to him. And he only ever respects a challenge. You will end up being the lucky one. But for you to ever be happy in life, you have to learn to love and value yourself.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 03:31PM

Another.perspective wrote: »

Both these guys who I am friends with and who have moved on from me into serious, "committed" relationships ended up seeking me out again, even to the detriment of their new relationships. Why? Because, unlike their OHs, I don't give a feck any more, and that is one thing a man with a fragile, attention-seeking ego can't stand to not try and rectify! So I, ironically, at the end of all bellyaching and messing about, ended up being an interesting proposition for both of them, and what I absolutely love doing is going to them with my romantic problems and watching them fight their inner attention-seeking, self-centred dick in trying to be a proper friend and advise me on how to deal with another man!

You enjoy being a presence in their lives that has a negative impact on other relationships? That's a pretty sick thing to enjoy and far from being empowering or good advice, it's further evidence that cutting contact is the only healthy option for the OP and, for what it's worth, for you too, before you damage other relationships any further.

cactusgal · 09-11-2016 03:39PM

Another.perspective wrote: »

Believe me one more thing, whichever girl ends up with the honour of being yer man's OH, you can feel sorry for her.

Eh, really? How about when he meets the right woman, the one that he wants to be in a relationship with, he will ... treat her like she's his girlfriend?

I've been with people in the past that I haven't been that into. It didn't end well, I could have treated them better. I'm 100% into my boyfriend now, so I treat him as well as I can, because I want to be his girlfriend for a long long time and make him happy.

I don't think I'm that unique in this regard, and I doubt this guy is, either.

Big Bag of Chips · 09-11-2016 03:57PM

Another.perspective wrote: »

what I absolutely love doing is going to them with my romantic problems and watching them fight their inner attention-seeking, self-centred dick in trying to be a proper friend and advise me on how to deal with another man!

So, you give out about men using people for an ego stroke.. yet admit to enjoying watching them squirm when you talk to them about other fellas?? Weird friendships you have there!

OP, don't become that person! It's vindictive, nasty and not what a genuine friendship should be. The great thing about friendships is we pick them! And we pick friends that we like and that we genuinely care about and wish well for, and them us. I'd hate to think I was a party in a friendship where my friend pitied my partner for being with me or deliberately came to me with "problems" thinking they were getting one over on me.

I'd be worried that when this lad does get into a relationship that you might find yourself becoming that friend! Get yourself out of there before you end up in that position.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 03:58PM

I wasn't talking about you, cactusgal, I was talking about a guy who is seemingly not ready for a relationship with a given girl but ends up chatting to her every day and having sex with her when given the opportunity. That is opportunistic and manipulative behaviour and I have seen enough of it to know. This type of man WILL take advantage of whatever he can get away with.

Of course, she has a part to play in the situation but is a more vulnerable party in it and should bolster her self-respect so this doesn't keep happening.

As for the other poster who thinks I am being sick or something, oh please

I actually had to laugh. I have done absolutely nothing wrong, cheated or lied or anything. I just like watching huge egos get a bit of comeuppance, so sue me. These men's relationships would be in much the same state of affairs were I not part of the picture at all, that's the whole point.

Merkin · 09-11-2016 04:27PM

You seem terribly embittered by all of this Another.perspective which just goes to show how toxic and unhealthy pretending to be friends with someone can be. The fact that you're rubbing your hands with glee over these exes getting their comeuppance is a reflection that these are not true or natural friendships but ones bourne out of spite perhaps which is very sad and a lesson to the OP why staying away and cutting contact is imperative.

OP, you really need to rip the plaster off and stop harbouring any fantasies of being a 'friend' or anything else.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 04:32PM

@ bboc:

I am having the kind of friendships with these men that they are capable of having with me. You are taking the perspective of genuine or normal or nice, but that is not where the things we are talking about are at. I agree I am not being the most genuine with these particular friendships I cultivate but I repeat, it goes both ways; they were using me to stroke their egos once upon the time when I cared, now the tables have turned, and my sin is supposed to be that I get some satisfaction from the reversal? Ok then.

I am just trying to give the op a different perspective on the situation, to make her realise that more likely than not, she has actually lucked out by not being "chosen" by this guy. If she could only see that , it really wouldn't matter to her if she were friends him or not. In fact, I do think that maybe my advice about keeping him as a friend was hasty, and terminal no contact is best here. Not everyone is able for the kind of mind games that do go on between people

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 04:46PM

You say embittered, Merkin, I say seasoned.

My life is a full and productive one, so not much to be bitter about really.

There seems to be a big backlash on this thread about the fact that the players can in turn get played just as easily as they play with other people's feelings. Interesting.

SarahMollie · 09-11-2016 05:13PM

Another.perspective wrote: »

Hi op,

I just want to go against the grain here and say that absolutely, it is possible
To be friends with people who have hurt you in the past. In fact, these can turn out to be the most rewarding friendships you could ever have. Some of mine are living examples of it. So this was probably the position from which you have been advised to reframe the relationship. However, and this is very important! you do need to have enough love for yourself to be able to see you are worth more than being dicked around by a man for his ego validation. (That is not usually achieved without a period of no contact, btw). Once you realise the above , the dynamic of that friendship will immediately change to your benefit - it is actually quite extraordinary and a very empowering experience, so I do recommend it wholeheartedly!

I have two men in particular among my friends, who have both hurt me in the past, all the variations on the usual "not ready for a relationship" but were ready enough when the next girl came along. How you deal with that is to distance yourself emotionally, and it is more easily said than done, I know, but once you know you are worth so much more than ending up with a man who was using you, you will end up being the one who is laughing, believe me!

Because it takes a certain kind of guy to be playing this "not ready", ego stroking game with a girl. The kind of guy whose ego is fragile and needs stroking and validating. For this kind of guy, one woman's attention is usually not enough. Both these guys who I am friends with and who have moved on from me into serious, "committed" relationships ended up seeking me out again, even to the detriment of their new relationships. Why? Because, unlike their OHs, I don't give a feck any more, and that is one thing a man with a fragile, attention-seeking ego can't stand to not try and rectify! So I, ironically, at the end of all bellyaching and messing about, ended up being an interesting proposition for both of them, and what I absolutely love doing is going to them with my romantic problems and watching them fight their inner attention-seeking, self-centred dick in trying to be a proper friend and advise me on how to deal with another man!

With this kind of man, only the "treat them mean, keep them keen" applies to get any sort of satisfaction out of them

Believe me one more thing, whichever girl ends up with the honour of being yer man's OH, you can feel sorry for her. (That's how I feel about both the OH's of my friends in question. One of them is being cheated on constantly, and the other one is on her merry way to the same honour, it's just a question of time.) It's all inevitable, really. She will be in the same position you are in now, in thrall to him. And he only ever respects a challenge. You will end up being the lucky one. But for you to ever be happy in life, you have to learn to love and value yourself.

This is completely twisted thinking and also very bad advice. I'm sorry that you've had these experiences but you appear to have a very low opinion of men, and arguably yourself.

You continued to be in contact with these two chancers - to what end? To undermine their current relationships? -to justfity the fact that they didnt chose to be in a relationship with you by staying close enough to see their new relationships fail?

Do you not think that by hanging around and always being available, that you're;
-enabling their sketchy-ness
-not moving on with your own life

You're projecting your own issues on to the OP and giving really bad advice IMO.

LLMMLL · 09-11-2016 05:14PM

Another. Perspective wrote: »

You say embittered, Merkin, I say seasoned. My life is a full and productive one, so not much to be bitter about really.

There seems to be a big backlash on this thread about the fact that the players can in turn get played just as easily as they play with other people's feelings. Interesting.

You're not having a certain kind of friendship with these guys. You're not friends. You're trying to get revenge. That's your prerogative but is probably the worst advice I've ever seen on this forum. Have a fake friendship so you can get one up on someone?

Seems like a massive waste of time and of course shows you're not over these guys so they're probably still "winning".

As for the OP it's pretty clear from your 2nd post that you don't accept that you'll never be in a relationship with this guy. Like an earlier poster said I've NEVER seen a guy who said he had these issues to a girl end up with that girl. If he does have issues, it will not be you he gets with when he gets over them.

Tigger99 · 09-11-2016 05:19PM

Oh dear. It's not a backlash about players being played. And by the way just because they didn't want s long term thing with you doesn't mean they are players.

It's a backlash against this weird dynamic whereby you are this toxic person in each others lives and you get enjoyment out of them offering to cheat on their girlfriends with you because now they can't have you. The best revenge is to live a happy life. Not to focus on on this really negative energy you have going on with these guys.

SarahMollie · 09-11-2016 05:42PM

Another. Perspective wrote: »

You say embittered, Merkin, I say seasoned. My life is a full and productive one, so not much to be bitter about really.

There seems to be a big backlash on this thread about the fact that the players can in turn get played just as easily as they play with other people's feelings. Interesting.

You've a really strange definition of a player also.

Sometimes people give relationships a go, but for whatever reason it doesnt work out, often it can be hard to explain. Then the cliche breakup reasons come out, ie, "not ready for a relationship".

All this means is that the feelings just werent there. Yes, ideally people would then keep each other at arms lenght and allow themselves to move on. That doesnt always happen. For example in our OPs case, I think she was mad to try to build a friendship with him, and equally he should have kept his distance as he was the one who instigated the break up. But instead, she fostered a situation that left her very vulnerable and they made a silly decision one night, one thats doubtlessly going to be harder for her to recover from that him. She needs a clean break, and thats for sure. Either way they were both playing with fire and should have known better.

But whats not clear, is why you think that the OPs time is best served maintaining a fake friendship so she can screw with his life in the future, and hope for failures on his part. Thats not moving on. Thats stooping to his level and even beneath it. What if she hangs around in the long grass as you've suggested but *gasp* he turns out not to live up to your low opinion of men, and the next women he meets, he's happy with and devoted to? What will the OP do then, having wasted her time being embittered and then ultimately proved wrong?

These guys that you're "friends" with....you've basically said they're low lifes for behaving as they do, yet you spend time with them, seeking our some sense of revenge. If you'd truely moved on, you wouldnt give them a second thought, let alone a moment of your time.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 05:46PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Seems like a massive waste of time and of course shows you're not over these guys so they're probably still "winning".

Lol, no time is wasted I assure you, these friendships feel very rewarding and empowering for me NOW, this is the point I wanted to get across to the op - once you stop caring about things that can't and won't bring you satisfaction, then things that will, start flowing to you easily, effortlessly. My whole life is a testament to that, actually, not just this, very small aspect of it.

So no, these guys are certainly not "winning" (whatever that seems to mean to you), if it's me who is happy being in the front row now, so to speak, while they are scrambling around trying to find yet another conquest from somewhere (only, to be fair, it is a little more difficult, from the practical side of things, to be a successful player once a watchful girlfriend's eye is over your shoulder...).

@ Tigger, of course not wanting to be with me long term doesn't mean a man is a player. (I have to admit, my ego is nothing to be sniffed at either, but it's not THAT big

).
Wanting to shag others (or actually doing it) while in a long term relationship however, does.

LegacyUser · 09-11-2016 06:08PM

@ SarahMollie: first of all, I already changed my mind on the staying friends thing in this specific situation. Some people are less suited to it then others, I guess I am leaving it to the op's judgment to take what she wants from my posts.

Second, I never endorsed being friends as a strategy to getting a man back (and never will). If you read back to my first post, stopping giving a feck is the ultimate thing to aim for. In both the cases I mentioned from my life, I did the no contact thing just as it should be done, and it was me who initiated it, make no mistake. The op needs to have that self love to implement that and stick to it, and she will be well on her way!

Both men came looking for me after a certain time has passed. I had genuinely stopped caring by then, at which point I realised that, as I have said, the dynamics have changed utterly, and it was them who needed something from me much more than the other way around. Well, you know, I am only human, and I have never since found this state of affairs particularly unpleasant, I have to say. I am as much a friend to them as they are to me. Both of them. A cheater and a charmer, a right pair. Everyone is getting something out of these friendships, it has to be assumed.

I'm getting kinda tired justifying myself on here now. For whoever thinks I am despicable, sick, sad, or harming myself or others, well, there ya go. That's life too. Agree to disagree and all that.

What am I after doing?

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