The Hazards of Belief

recedite · 29-10-2016 06:17PM

Elderly men of the cloth, obsessed with controlling what younger women do with their bodies. Reminds me of this.

kylith · 31-10-2016 08:19PM

looksee wrote: »

That is really sad. Sad as in pathetic.

Great way of getting the menfolk to help out around the house though. "Cut up those carrots for me, Muhammad. And then you can do the hoovering, the suction gives me impure thoughts. And that feather duster is giving me kinky notions too..."

recedite · 06-11-2016 09:51AM

Khalid Kelly finally blows himself up, plus a few others no doubt.
Good riddance to him. I can't quite agree with the journalist's comment though. Its like the journalist is saying he did what he did despite being a god fearing true believer.

He prayed and he was a true believer but obviously, along the way, he was brainwashed by these militant groups and he allowed that hate and misunderstanding of Islam to take over.

silverharp · 06-11-2016 10:17AM

recedite wrote: »

Khalid Kelly finally blows himself up, plus a few others no doubt.
Good riddance to him. I can't quite agree with the journalist's comment though. Its like the journalist is saying he did what he did despite being a god fearing true believer.

this is believed to be his car, might have gone off early so nobody else killed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYikKuk1Td4

Hotblack Desiato · 06-11-2016 04:20PM

The halfwitted sap couldn't even blow himself up properly.

Hotblack Desiato · 06-11-2016 04:30PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/earthquakes-in-italy-god-s-punishment-for-same-sex-unions-1.2856360

The Vatican has condemned the views of a Dominican friar who earlier this week suggested that the earthquakes which hit Italy this summer were “God’s punishment” for the enactment of same sex Civil Union legislation in Italy in May this year.

“From a theological point of view, these disasters are the result of original sin...We are in the presence of a divine punishment and a strong call to refind the principles of natural law...you can certainly think that the earthquake was a punishment for the sins of man...and two men together represents a sin against nature...”, said Fr Cavalcoli.

Asked specifically if the earthquakes were a punishment from God for the legalisation of gay unions, Fr Cavalcoli replied, “Yes, it can happen that way”.

Curiously, this is the second time in the last month that a public figure has suggested that this year’s earthquakes in Italy might be interpreted as some sort of “divine punishment”. Last week, deputy Israeli foreign minister Ayoub Kara suggested that the earthquakes were divine punishment for Italy’s abstention on a controversial UNESCO resolution regarding the status of Jerusalem’s holy sites.

robindch · 07-11-2016 03:30PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The halfwitted sap couldn't even blow himself up properly.

The IT did a longer piece on the former Mr Kelly and spoke to some locals in Ardagh, Co Longford, where he used to live. One local noted, probably without needing to, that "he never came into the pub".

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/longford-locals-shocked-khalid-kelly-lived-in-their-midst-1.2857082

recedite · 07-11-2016 06:44PM

robindch wrote: »

One local noted, probably without needing to, that "he never came into the pub"

It really is bizarre how some people have their heads in the sand. Kelly was not one for hiding his views or his religion.
I spoke with him in O'Connell St. in Dublin city centre one time, he had a stall on the footpath with two younger guys. I'm pretty sure it was him anyway, and they were trying to hand out leaflets to people. They seemed like nice guys, they weren't as loud or "aggressive" as your typical Christian fundamentalist would be in terms of attention seeking. So they were hardly noticed by most people. Actions speak louder than words I suppose.

robindch · 07-11-2016 06:50PM

recedite wrote: »

Actions speak louder than words I suppose.

"Bang" in his case.

silverharp · 07-11-2016 06:51PM

recedite wrote: »

It really is bizarre how some people have their heads in the sand. Kelly was not one for hiding his views or his religion.
I spoke with him in O'Connell St. in Dublin city centre one time, he had a stall on the footpath with two younger guys. I'm pretty sure it was him anyway, and they were trying to hand out leaflets to people. They seemed like nice guys, they weren't as loud or "aggressive" as your typical Christian fundamentalist would be in terms of attention seeking. So they were hardly noticed by most people. Actions speak louder than words I suppose.

Lee Rigby's killer in the background

recedite · 07-11-2016 07:23PM

I'm guessing that photo was taken in the UK?
Completely different style there; megaphones, placards, shouting.
We are a couple of decades behind in Ireland.

silverharp · 07-11-2016 07:36PM

recedite wrote: »

I'm guessing that photo was taken in the UK?
Completely different style there; megaphones, placards, shouting.
We are a couple of decades behind in Ireland.

I'd say so....erm yeah cant wait

recedite · 08-11-2016 01:04PM

One local noted, probably without needing to, that "he never came into the pub"

Heres some more local reaction from Ardagh, Co Longford, where he used to live.

The Spar shop; "He used to come in to buy a breakfast roll, but he never wanted any bacon on it. Strange. And that funny little hat he wore, what was that about?"

The Guard; "He'd often be out jogging in the middle of the night, in army boots and carrying a 20 Kilo rucksack full of rocks. I stopped him once when I saw he had a rifle as well, but it turned out he was partial to a bit of rabbit stew."

The Parish Priest; "A very nice man, very quiet. Kept himself to himself. He never came to mass; that was the only odd thing about him. He had a great sense of humour, he used to tell people that he was a muslim".

The Butcher; "He always came in here for his steaks. Never touched the sausages, even if they were on special offer. I'd tell him our home made craft sausages were the best in north east Longford, and he'd just be muttering something about "snackbars".

silverharp · 08-11-2016 01:27PM

^^^^^

there is something a bit Fr Ted about all that. whats the logic? he was a Muslim but he was also a Catholic Muslim?

recedite · 08-11-2016 02:24PM

I'm just poking fun at the "head in the sand mentality" that we, as a society, suffer from.
The guy was not crazy or stupid, no more than anyone else. So there was no official reason for officialdom to interfere with him.
We also have this assumption in society that religion in itself, is inherently good.
Put those two factors together, and you have the reason why a fundamentalist inspired terrorist threat can grow, completely out in the open, yet remain totally invisible as far as "society" is concerned.
Its not just in Ardagh either, its in the whole of Europe.

The question of how this guy came to be a true believer is fairly straightforward. He went to the middle east to make some money working as a nurse. Found he could sell alcohol at extortionate prices. Got arrested and jailed by Islamic police. While under the psychological trauma of being stuck in a Saudi prison, and probably lacking sleep too, he abandoned his own cultural upbringing, rebooted his values system, and adopted the ideology of his captors. Its a classic brainwashing scenario. There's no going back after that, except if he was required to undergo some serious therapy sessions back home. As the paper says

This is a classic psychological aberration that occurs when prisoners start to identify with the ideology of their captors. Kelly is not the first and certainly won't be the last to suffer from such a loss of cultural identity in a form of psychological trauma.

A similar thing happened with many captured US servicemen in Vietnam.

09-11-2016 12:54PM

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/croydon-tram-crash-five-trapped-40-injured
A random insight into one person's mind:

Adil Salahi, whose property overlooks the track, said he heard a sudden noise. Salahi, 76, said: “It was about 6.10 to 6.15 and because I was praying I could not move and try to check what it is. I thought it was something in the garage doors. Then I thought it was some lorry.”[\quote]

MrPudding · 10-11-2016 03:42PM

recedite wrote: »

The Butcher; "He always came in here for his steaks. Never touched the sausages, even if they were on special offer. I'd tell him our home made craft sausages were the best in north east Longford, and he'd just be muttering something about "snackbars".

MrP

MrPudding · 10-11-2016 03:45PM

recedite wrote: »

I'm just poking fun at the "head in the sand mentality" that we, as a society, suffer from.
The guy was not crazy or stupid, no more than anyone else. So there was no official reason for officialdom to interfere with him.
We also have this assumption in society that religion in itself, is inherently good.
Put those two factors together, and you have the reason why a fundamentalist inspired terrorist threat can grow, completely out in the open, yet remain totally invisible as far as "society" is concerned.
Its not just in Ardagh either, its in the whole of Europe.

The question of how this guy came to be a true believer is fairly straightforward. He went to the middle east to make some money working as a nurse. Found he could sell alcohol at extortionate prices. Got arrested and jailed by Islamic police. While under the psychological trauma of being stuck in a Saudi prison, and probably lacking sleep too, he abandoned his own cultural upbringing, rebooted his values system, and adopted the ideology of his captors. Its a classic brainwashing scenario. There's no going back after that, except if he was required to undergo some serious therapy sessions back home. As the paper says A similar thing happened with many captured US servicemen in Vietnam.

Basically the plot for Homeland.

MrP

robindch · 17-11-2016 04:37PM

Prominently wealthy fundamentalist NZ preacher Brian Tamaki has announced that the recent earthquake in New Zealand was caused by god in retaliation for recent "iniquity" taking place in the country.

Lots of kiwis were unamused.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-38011627

robindch · 18-11-2016 11:49AM

High-flying, orange-dressed, gun-loving Indian god-woman and hindu nationalist, Sadhvi Deva Thakur, shows up at a wedding, asks for and gets a dance tune, then pulls out a gun and starts shooting in the air, but not high enough for one guest.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-38013000

Ms Thakur left the wedding as soon as possible and hasn't been seen since.

recedite · 18-11-2016 01:43PM

The colour orange has a strange effect on people.
Look at Trump. Remember Ian Paisley?
Even I have problems. When I go to the pub wearing jeans, no problem. But when I go wearing my patriotic orange kilt, it nearly always ends in a barfight.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-11-2016 11:08PM

Just tell them it's not orange, it's saffron - and traditionally that's where the dye came from, so only the very privileged could wear it.

robindch · 21-11-2016 02:02PM

robindch wrote: »

Following the BBC article, Mr Aniva has been arrested by police on the direct orders of the president:

Mr Aniva went on trial, was convicted and faces sentencing of up to five years tomorrow:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38006053
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-38028065

silverharp · 23-11-2016 10:27AM

sure why not.....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/21/germany-sharia-police-court-ruling?CMP=twt_gu

A German court has ruled that a group of Islamists did not break the law in forming “sharia police” street patrols and telling people to stop drinking, gambling and listening to music.

The ultra-conservative Muslim group around the German Salafist convert Sven Lau sparked public outrage with their vigilante patrols in the western city of Wuppertal in 2014, but prosecutors have struggled to build a case against them.

The city’s district court ruled that the seven accused members of the group did not breach a ban on political uniforms when they approached people while wearing orange vests bearing the words “Sharia Police”.

Judges said there could only be a violation of the law – originally aimed against street movements such as the early Nazi party – if the uniforms were “suggestively militant or intimidating”, a court spokesman said.

robindch · 24-11-2016 03:35PM

Lancet paper suggests that perpetuating the Santa myth might not be good for children:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/nov/23/belief-in-santa-could-affect-parent-child-relationships-warns-study

Let the war on christmas commence!

Hotblack Desiato · 25-11-2016 12:02AM

robindch wrote: »

Let the war on christmas commence!

This early?

Peregrinus · 25-11-2016 01:58AM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

This early?

It's Thanksgiving in the US. The War on Christmas™ officially begins tomorrow.

[Neville Chamberlain voice]: "This morning I handed an elf representing Santa Claus and Baby Jesus a final Note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw from all department stores and shopping malls, a state of war would exist between us.

I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently we are at war with Christmas".

silverharp · 29-11-2016 08:28AM

seems reasonable :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/803513927506202624

Penn · 29-11-2016 10:48AM

silverharp wrote: »

seems reasonable :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/803513927506202624

"Did you beat your wife black and blue?"
"No, purple and blue"
"Oh, that's fine then."

looksee · 29-11-2016 01:01PM

There is some serious rubbish - mixed in with rather more rational stuff - on that MEMRI site. If they want men to have 4 wives, well let them get on with it, it is not important, but the stuff that 'Researcher' is fulminating on, and the guy ranting about Zionism is really worrying. Its arguable of course that it is no different to what the fundamentalist Christians rant about, really we could do very well without any of them.

The Hazards of Belief

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