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2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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Comments

  • #6302
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,258 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    gosplan wrote: »
    Without getting into the comment you made about 'saying anything to win', do you not think there's a bit of double standards going on with the above comment?

    Do you get why the things trump has said would make certain groups think he perhaps won't be a president 'for all the people'?

    He made mistakes.
    He was no politician , he soon put right his remarks.
    He said crazy things at start of this race, will cost him the victory.
    He talks differently now.


  • #6303
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,258 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Clinton uses her Clinton Foundation as a front, she used donated money for holidays, weddings, and her lifestyle .


  • #6304
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    He made mistakes.
    He was no politician , he soon put right his remarks.
    He said crazy things at start of this race, will cost him the victory.
    He talks differently now.

    But then we're back into saying anything or in Trumps case 'not saying stuff' to win.

    I think for Trump, the damage is that people perceive that it's not his remarks that he needs to put right but rather his outlook.

    Both are going to be populist to try and win the election but Trumps authentic views on things like immigrants, race and sex have cost him a lot.


  • #6305
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Clinton uses her Clinton Foundation as a front, she used donated money for holidays, weddings, and her lifestyle .
    Evidence?


  • #6306
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Clinton uses her Clinton Foundation as a front, she used donated money for holidays, weddings, and her lifestyle .

    Can you actually prove anything you claim? We do know for a fact that Trump has used his own charity money for legal fees and portraits.

    Meanwhile the Clinton foundation is a globally respected charity which has benefited people across the globe.


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  • #6307
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭Christy42


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    He made mistakes.
    He was no politician , he soon put right his remarks.
    He said crazy things at start of this race, will cost him the victory.
    He talks differently now.

    Did he not believe those things? Did he have a change of heart? Did his advisors finally manage to keep him from going off script? That last one is not an encouraging option as it means he still holds the views you deem (and I agree with you on) crazy.

    This is a man who the big thing has always been can he stay on script and has even had his twitter access taken away by his campaign team. If I were a betting man I know which of those options I reckon are true.

    Not being a politician does not excuse someone from being a horrible human being. You can't simply ignore everything Trump was before he entered the race.


  • #6308
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Clinton uses her Clinton Foundation as a front, she used donated money for holidays, weddings, and her lifestyle .

    Even if that is true, how is that in any way different to Trump who has been found out using his charities for himself and his family time and again?


  • #6309
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,361 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Political dynasties are bad for countries.
    They all just feel self entitled, with no new ideas.

    I suppose you wouldn't be in favour of Michelle Obama running for office in 4 years time?


  • #6310
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    This from a women who called Trump supporters deplorable and Bernie supporters basement dwellers .

    When were these?
    RobertKK wrote: »
    The black community also have Stockholm syndrome. Given it was the Republicans who outlawed slavery, and it was Democrats who wanted to keep it.
    It would be like Irish people supporting the Whig government/party who helped starve us.

    Why isn't David Duke running as a dem then?


  • #6311
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Overheal wrote: »
    Odds currently are Trump takes Ohio and Arizona, with Florida, North Carolina and Nevada virtually tied 50:50 % chances of winning.

    http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=mobilebar&v=1

    The Latino vote in FL is up 129% since 2012

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/04/politics/latinos-voter-turnout-early-voting-2016-election/

    Nationally Clinton has a 50 point lead with Latino voters over Trump

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-latino-support-for-hillary-clinton-at-1478451714-htmlstory.html
    Hillary Clinton has support from 76% of the Latino electorate, according to the Noticias Telemundo/Latino Decisions /NALEO Educational Fund poll.
    That's a higher level of support than President Obama won in both of his elections. Latino Decisions' survey showed 75% of Latinos backed Obama in 2012. Exit polling put his support at 71%.
    Just 14% of Latino voters backed Trump, the survey found, That's about half of Mitt Romney's 27% showing with Latinos and fewer than the GOP's low-point when Bob Dole won 21% of the Latino vote in 1996.

    And according to someone I know who works in US polling, Latino voters tend to get overlooked in most polls.


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  • #6312
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    TheOven wrote: »
    Why isn't David Duke running as a dem then?
    Robert seems to be entirely unaware of, or conveniently ignoring the entire Southern Strategy.


  • #6313
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Billy86 wrote: »
    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Clinton uses her Clinton Foundation as a front, she used donated money for holidays, weddings, and her lifestyle .

    Even if that is true, how is that in any way different to Trump who has been found out using his charities for himself and his family time and again?
    It isn't true. The Clinton Foundation has been audited to death and emerges with the highest rating awarded.


  • #6314
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    First Up wrote: »
    It isn't true. The Clinton Foundation has been audited to death and emerges with the highest rating awarded.

    Oh, I know the Clinton Foundation have an A+ rating from CharityWatch who won't even rate the Trump Foundation because they don't consider it to really even be a charity despite it's claims. I'm just curious why this poster would try to bring this up when Trump has been caught with his pants down on treating himself and his family members to the funds of his 'charity' foundation time and again.

    It's peculiar the issues Trump fans seem to have with reality and facts.


  • #6315
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭Amerika


    So now president Obama is telling illegal aliens that they can go out and illegally vote and they don’t have to worry because no one will be spying on them or catching them because they vote? This sad sorry excuse for a president can’t leave office soon enough.



  • #6316
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    The NY Post claim that Hillary had her maid print out classified material.
    As secretary of state, Hillary Clinton routinely asked her maid to print out sensitive government e-mails and documents — including ones containing classified information — from her house in Washington, DC, e-mails and FBI memos show. But the housekeeper lacked the security clearance to handle such material.
    In fact, Marina Santos was called on so frequently to receive e-mails that she may hold the secrets to E-mailgate — if only the FBI and Congress would subpoena her and the equipment she used.
    Clinton entrusted far more than the care of her DC residence, known as Whitehaven, to Santos. She expected the Filipino immigrant to handle state secrets, further opening the Democratic presidential nominee to criticism that she played fast and loose with national security.
    Clinton would first receive highly sensitive e-mails from top aides at the State Department and then request that they, in turn, forward the messages and any attached documents to Santos to print out for her at the home.

    http://nypost.com/2016/11/06/clinton-directed-her-maid-to-print-out-classified-materials/

    Again, if true, it shows Obama's bad judgement when he talks about the most qualified candidate ever. If all this is true it shows Hillary intentionally leaked classified and sensitive material to a person who had no clearance to handle it.
    Just like Bradley/Chelsea Manning intentionally allowing people with no clearance to access classified documents.


  • #6317
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Oh, I know the Clinton Foundation have an A+ rating from CharityWatch who won't even rate the Trump Foundation because they don't consider it to really even be a charity despite it's claims. I'm just curious why this poster would try to bring this up when Trump has been caught with his pants down on treating himself and his family members to the funds of his 'charity' foundation time and again.

    It's peculiar the issues Trump fans seem to have with reality and facts.

    That could be said of both sides. It's been an extremely embarrassing campaign for both candidates and their supporters.


  • #6318
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    glued wrote: »
    That could be said of both sides. It's been an extremely embarrassing campaign for both candidates and their supporters.

    That's exactly my point - that even if true, re the Clinton Foundation, Trump has been caught doing what BornetobeWilde was giving out about himself on multiple occasions.

    It would be like those in favour of Clinton having a go at Trump for deleting emails. Nonsensical.


  • #6319
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The NY Post claim that Hillary had her maid print out classified material.



    http://nypost.com/2016/11/06/clinton-directed-her-maid-to-print-out-classified-materials/

    Again, if true, it shows Obama's bad judgement when he talks about the most qualified candidate ever. If all this is true it shows Hillary intentionally leaked classified and sensitive material to a person who had no clearance to handle it.
    Just like Bradley/Chelsea Manning intentionally allowing people with no clearance to access classified documents.

    Not true I'm afraid. Was in here yesterday or perhaps the other thread about e-mails. Nothing marked classified IIRC.

    When will they give up?

    8 years and 10s of millions spent going after Obama and Hillary. All the GOP has done is open the door to the far right and completely take it's eye off the ball of national politics.


  • #6320
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Oh, I know the Clinton Foundation have an A+ rating from CharityWatch who won't even rate the Trump Foundation because they don't consider it to really even be a charity despite it's claims. I'm just curious why this poster would try to bring this up when Trump has been caught with his pants down on treating himself and his family members to the funds of his 'charity' foundation time and again.

    It's peculiar the issues Trump fans seem to have with reality and facts.


    Remember when people here in Ireland had a problem with Console and how the founder paid himself and used it to benefit themselves.

    There are claims that Chelsea gets paid $900,000 from the 'charity', and a claim her $3 million wedding was paid for by the foundation.
    Doug Band who has associations with the Clintons made this claim about the wedding.


  • #6321
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    gosplan wrote: »
    Not true I'm afraid. Was in here yesterday or perhaps the other thread about e-mails. Nothing marked classified IIRC.

    When will they give up?

    8 years and 10s of millions spent going after Obama and Hillary. All the GOP has done is open the door to the far right and completely take it's eye off the ball of national politics.

    I heard nothing about the maid until I read that. It seems she was not questioned.


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  • #6322
    Chase3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭Chase3


    If Trump wins, this could happen...



    But yeah they are both ridiculous.


  • #6323
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    glued wrote: »
    Billy86 wrote: »
    Oh, I know the Clinton Foundation have an A+ rating from CharityWatch who won't even rate the Trump Foundation because they don't consider it to really even be a charity despite it's claims. I'm just curious why this poster would try to bring this up when Trump has been caught with his pants down on treating himself and his family members to the funds of his 'charity' foundation time and again.

    It's peculiar the issues Trump fans seem to have with reality and facts.

    That could be said of both sides. It's been an extremely embarrassing campaign for both candidates and their supporters.
    I have yet to see Clinton simply make stuff up, or see her supporters parroting nonsense as fact.


  • #6324
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Political dynasties are bad for countries.
    They all just feel self entitled, with no new ideas.

    Some of the greatest presidents were related to previous presidents. The prime example was FDR

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #6325
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    gosplan wrote: »
    Not true I'm afraid. Was in here yesterday or perhaps the other thread about e-mails. Nothing marked classified IIRC.

    When will they give up?

    8 years and 10s of millions spent going after Obama and Hillary. All the GOP has done is open the door to the far right and completely take it's eye off the ball of national politics.

    Sorry, they've done two other things too.

    1: determined that past state depts have kept private e-mail servers and that this shouldn't happen.

    2: determined that the Obama administration played politics with the Benghazi story.

    And that's it.

    No smoking gun, despite how badly people want there to be.

    Stop wasting public resources and time on witch hunts.


  • #6326
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,949 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Brian? wrote: »
    Some of the greatest presidents were related to previous presidents. The prime example was FDR
    On the other hand, you have George W.


  • #6327
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Robert seems to be entirely unaware of, or conveniently ignoring the entire Southern Strategy.

    Black people and racists are very confused people it would seem.


  • #6328
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Brian? wrote: »
    Some of the greatest presidents were related to previous presidents. The prime example was FDR

    ...and some are like the North Koreans Kim family.

    Time for the US to move on from the Clinton and Bush families. Two families of self entitled people who believe they should rule.


  • #6329
    Sofa Spud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Sofa Spud


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Was that 50 including King and Sanders (both identify as independent) as Dems? For their leanings they are good as, but just curious. If not, as TheDoctor has pointed out a haul of 48 would be a majority, technically speaking, though would also likely mean quite a bit of bargaining to get their vote on certain things. Which, to be fair, would likely be a good thing.

    The narrow lead might make it hard to get things done directly, but the overall implications especially in terms of visibility (e.g. no more McConnell boasting about doing anything but actually governing, not having McConnell/Ryan as a joint front the media etc) could make quite a difference, especially when considering the Supreme Court turning liberal for the first time in 35-40 years or however long it has been.

    Good question - my guess was that they were including the two independents in the Dems total as the conversation focused on control of the senate and they were not mentioned, so I'd have to say it was clear they were included.


  • #6330
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭Christy42


    RobertKK wrote: »
    ...and some are like the North Koreans Kim family.

    Time for the US to move on from the Clinton and Bush families. Two families of self entitled people who believe they should rule.

    So some are bad and some are good. HOW about we judge Chelsea on her own merits when and if she goes for office.


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  • #6331
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Robert seems to be entirely unaware of, or conveniently ignoring the entire Southern Strategy.

    You mean Hillary calling Robert Byrd a close friend?

    Bill making excuses for him:
    They mention that he once had a fleeting association with the Ku Klux Klan, and what does that mean? I'll tell you what it means. He was a country boy from the hills and hollows of West Virginia. He was trying to get elected. And maybe he did something he shouldn't have done, and he spent the rest of his life making it up. And that's what a good person does. There are no perfect people. There certainly are no perfect politicians.

    His fleeting association involved recruiting over 150 members to klan, and the Klan praising him saying he had leadership skills and the country needed people like him in leadership. It was the klan that got him into politics.
    But at least he is a friend of the Clintons and not Trump...I think Byrd has spent the rest of his life making it up...


This discussion has been closed.
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