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NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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Comments

  • #2252
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Just back from a visit to Kerry.

    I think there is one thing that we're not giving proper weight to. People in rural Kerry think Eir is an abmismal joke when it come to providing broadband. They have zero credibility.

    Announcing that Eir has won both contracts -it just doesn't add up politically.


  • #2253
    pegasus1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭pegasus1


    KOR101 wrote: »
    -it just doesn't add up politically.
    Where does politics come into it...


  • #2254
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Just back from a visit to Kerry.

    I think there is one thing that we're not giving proper weight to. People in rural Kerry think Eir is an abmismal joke when it come to providing broadband. They have zero credibility.

    Announcing that Eir has won both contracts -it just doesn't add up politically.

    I despise Eir too but who else has got a credible chance of doing this rollout properly. Sure Siro could do something but they will be starting from scratch everywhere they go.

    Pretty much everyone who has had ****ty broadband thanks to Eir's infrastructure for the last decade and longer dislike Eir as much as Trump supporters dislike Hillary but ultimately they are unfortunately the only people who can get this sort of job done quickly.

    All we need to do is hold their backsides to the fire for the 25 years of the contract and ensure they don't stand around doing nothing for people like they've done nothing for houses like mine for years.


  • #2255
    damienirel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭damienirel


    legocrazy505 wrote: »
    I despise Eir too but who else has got a credible chance of doing this rollout properly. Sure Siro could do something but they will be starting from scratch everywhere they go.

    Pretty much everyone who has had ****ty broadband thanks to Eir's infrastructure for the last decade and longer dislike Eir as much as Trump supporters dislike Hillary but ultimately they are unfortunately the only people who can get this sort of job done quickly.

    All we need to do is hold their backsides to the fire for the 25 years of the contract and ensure they don't stand around doing nothing for people like they've done nothing for houses like mine for years.

    Yup - all true! It's looking more and more likely that Eir are the only ones doing anything worthy of comment on the rural areas. But god I do hate them.


  • #2256
    KOR101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-ballybrophy-needs-broadband-not-railway-lines-1.2873714


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  • #2257
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    KOR101 wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-ballybrophy-needs-broadband-not-railway-lines-1.2873714

    "...rural TDs needs to work on speeding up the broadband service."

    And yet, not a single prescription in the article on how they could do that - or even any real suggestion that it realistically can be done any faster.


  • #2258
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    oscarBravo wrote:
    And yet, not a single prescription in the article on how they could do that - or even any real suggestion that it realistically can be done any faster.


    By stop wasting public money trying to get votes by keeping a defunct train station open


  • #2259
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    By stop wasting public money trying to get votes by keeping a defunct train station open

    That will make the NBP happen more quickly... how?


  • #2260
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    oscarBravo wrote:
    That will make the NBP happen more quickly... how?

    If they focused their political parish pumping on the broadband problem instead of the train station or fixing the road

    If they realised that if they had proper broadband infrastructure in their constituencies then FDI and small business would come in and drive the investments to achieve ''fixing the road"


  • #2261
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    If they focused their political parish pumping on the broadband problem instead of the train station or fixing the road

    If they realised that if they had proper broadband infrastructure in their constituencies then FDI and small business would come in and drive the investments to achieve ''fixing the road"

    You are failing to realise the one reason why this takes so long to get going, though, negotiations of a contract of this scale can't be sped up simply by having TDs try to finish it quicker.

    I despise parish pump politics as much as anyone but all of this is irrelevant as to why the start of the rollout under NBP has been delayed until 2018.

    I'm sure all rural TDs would love to see proper broadband rolled out to the rural areas of their constituencies but right now they have zero power over the privately run rollouts currently happening.

    And once the NBP has started I'd rather see the TDs have NO power over the rollout, let whoever wins do the areas they can do first and not be told by people like the Healy Raes that they need to do their friends in some village in the middle of nowhere before a village with 150 houses along a national road that has received only empty promises from Eir...

    All the TDs should be told to do for the NBP is open the barriers that currently face anyone looking to improve infrastructure such as pesky landowners who refuse to let companies do work on their land. I mean when we had that storm in February a while back, our neighbour refused to let the ESB come in and get power back up for our area. Those are the kinds of things TDs need to ensure don't happen with the NBP, they should keep their corrupt noses out of anything else.


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  • #2262
    ItHurtsWhenIP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    legocrazy505 wrote: »
    ...
    I mean when we had that storm in February a while back, our neighbour refused to let the ESB come in and get power back up for our area. ...

    Are you sure about that? I thought the ESB have an open wayleave to access any land which their network is on, especially in the case of repair work, as fallen lines are a safety hazard.


  • #2263
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    ItHurtsWhenIP wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? I thought the ESB have an open wayleave to access any land which their network is on, especially in the case of repair work, as fallen lines are a safety hazard.

    I thought that too and pretty sure it should be case all the time, but they were turned away the first time they attempted to go in and fix the problems. They came back either one or two days after at night and just did their thing.


  • #2264
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.


  • #2265
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    ItHurtsWhenIP wrote:
    Are you sure about that? I thought the ESB have an open wayleave to access any land which their network is on, especially in the case of repair work, as fallen lines are a safety hazard.


    Nope there is no registered wayleave on agricultural land just forestry and the land owner is compensated for that


  • #2266
    long_b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭long_b


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.

    That's disgusting


  • #2267
    godskitchen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭godskitchen


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.

    That's one of the worst bits of paid advertising disguised as an article I have ever seen.

    They can't make wireless work with less than 10k subscribers, how will it work for millions?

    I just hope he has as little sway with the public and decision makers as he does with understanding how technology works.


  • #2268
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭jd


    godskitchen wrote: »
    I just hope he has as little sway with the public and decision makers as he does with understanding how technology works.
    I suspect we'll see the NBP the subject of a court case in the future..


  • #2269
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,871 ✭✭✭plodder


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.
    Comparing rural Ireland with rural Australia of all places, exposes it for what it is.

    No mention of Eir or Siro's current commercial deployments either.


  • #2270
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    IT'S NOT FEASIBLE I SAY!

    The typical line that shows this person probably lives in the city.

    If it wasn't feasible then Eir, Siro, Enet would not be looking to do this rollout. It was those companies who even suggested FTTH, the government haven't forced them to adopt that approach, they want to do it that way.

    "Today, advanced fixed wireless can provide a connection speed of up to 200 megabits and is more than capable of servicing the average household and business. Indeed, this is way beyond what the average household uses, and even as internet consumption increases in the years ahead (and wireless speeds along with it), we're still a very long way from requiring a full gigabit."


    The lack of comprehension even in that section alone astounds me. Fixed wireless could offer gigabits for all I care but as we see with these solutions, they do not scale well with increased customers.

    And a "very long way" from requiring a gigabit? Please tell that to the countless businesses in other countries that and see the reaction. Do they not play any video games either? Games are massive now.

    Here's a good story actually so we have about 1.7mbps download, my brother wanted to download Elder Scrolls Online. It would take him nearly 4 days to do that. A friend of ours in the middle of ****ing nowhere, literally, somehow gets a speed boost from a nearby cabinet, his speed about 6.5mbps. It took him about a day. My brother is now having to go to his house and just put it on a hard drive so he doesn't have to wait ****ing days for our ****ty broadband, less than 1km outside a village with 150+ houses inside a 1km radius to finish the game.

    Would wireless fix that problem? Maybe but we are literally surrounded by trees so that could cause problems. Would wireless be future proof though for 25 years? No ****ing way.


  • #2271
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.

    Shameless. Thankfully the department has seeen through their snakeoil claims and they have long since been irrelevant to the deployment of the NBP. My only concern would be the legal option mentioned by jd. This could potentially delay the process even further.


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  • #2272
    Gonzo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,487 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/national-broadband-plan-will-fail-those-in-our-country-areas-35229984.html

    Outrageous article in technology section of today's independent, written by an imagine director, full of holes and misleading info and with no comments section.

    Absolutely appalling.

    Absolute thrash article, all that was missing was a violin in the background.

    FTTH is the only way for rural Ireland. All other distance sensitive and line of sight/wireless products are dead in the water for a long term broadband solution.


  • #2273
    Nollog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,711 ✭✭✭Nollog


    Someone here write a counter article.


  • #2274
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,672 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Brian O'Donohoe is the commercial director of broadband provider Imagine

    Who the **** approved this nonsense? It's a shambles and is only further fuelling the complete ignorance related to infrastructure amongst the general public in this country. I have had no resepct for this company in the past but this is just shameless stuff.


  • #2275
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    Someone here write a counter article.

    Do the indo publish letters to the editor?


  • #2276
    BandMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭BandMember


    ED E wrote: »
    Do the indo publish letters to the editor?

    Yeah, they do, but they're probably not going to publish one criticizing an article that someone paid them a lot of money to them to publish - even if it is complete and utter rubbish... :rolleyes:


  • #2277
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    Someone here write a counter article.

    Adrian Weckler, their so called "Tech Editor" should pull it apart if he was any use.


  • #2278
    jd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭jd


    Best bet would be for another current Wisp, like Westnet or Carnesore Broadband, to explain why they think the future for rural broadband is ftth!


  • #2279
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Big Lar doesn't tend to be very vocal but I'd love him to tear them a new one.


  • #2280
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    marno21 wrote: »
    Who the **** approved this nonsense? It's a shambles and is only further fuelling the complete ignorance related to infrastructure amongst the general public in this country. I have had no resepct for this company in the past but this is just shameless stuff.

    Why are papers letting people publish things like this? Why does this not breach journalism ethics? A newspaper should be reporting the facts not advertising someone's selfish interests.


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  • #2281
    tsue921i8wljb3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    In fairness to Westnet they have already made their views abundantly clear in the DCENR's public consultations.
    Technology
    Following from the above, there is a potential conflict between two considerations that the NBP must take into account: one is the SAG requirement for technology neutrality, and the other is the requirement that the investment be future-proof and scalable.
    It is our view that the latter requirement clearly trumps the former. While it’s theoretically possible to deliver services over wireless platforms that comply with the 30-down/6-up requirement to meet the definition of NGA, it’s abundantly clear that such platforms can’t offer a fraction of the scalability of a true fibre-optic network.
    Can a wireless network deliver next-generation broadband, if the definition of such is constrained to less than what’s commercially available in urban areas even today? Maybe. Can it deliver 50% annual growth year-on-year for the duration of a 20-year intervention? Not a chance.
    It may be tempting to consider wireless technologies as an "easy answer" to the "last few percent" of premises. In our experience, the most remote premises (particularly in mountainous terrain) are, if anything, more difficult to deliver wireless services to.

    By way of illustration, we would point out that there are a significantly higher number of premises in the country without mobile phone coverage than there are without electricity.

    Apart from terrain, other considerations that pose challenges to wireless coverage are trees, wind farms, and the requirement to develop new wireless high sites (often in the face of intense local opposition).

    Finally, wireless technologies simply won't scale. Providing a wireless service to remote premises condemns them to second-class status when fibre-based products quickly overtake anything that can realistically be provided on a wireless network.

    http://www.dccae.gov.ie/communications/Lists/Consultations%20Submissions/NBP%20Intervention%20Strategy%20Submissions/WestNet%20Executive%20Summary%20Final.pdf

    http://www.dccae.gov.ie/communications/Lists/Consultations%20Submissions/NBP%20Intervention%20Strategy%20Submissions/WestNet%20Technical%20Final.pdf


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