2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

BorneTobyWilde · 06-11-2016 11:21PM

bajer101 wrote: »

I think you really are pissing against the wind trying to talk to talk to Trump supporters. A politically agnostic Facebook friend of mine posted a clip of Trump lying about how Obama dealt with the Trump supporter at his rally. This FB friend of mine wouldn't have had much interest in the election but was shocked at how Trump had obviously lied, so posted the evidence. A Trump supporter friend of their's posted a rebuttal that was just incredible. They claimed that Obama was belittling the Trump supporter and that Trump was correct in his assessment of Obama's response.

When I read that, I just despaired. I realised that you may as well be talking to the cat as trying to have a rational discussion with some people. And then I watched the BBC documentary tonight on the Obama presidency and I despaired further. Watching someone like Obama who is a true Statesman and all round decent person, and comparing that to the likes of that clown Trump is just heart breaking.

Tribute videos tend to look positive for the subject.

For me this email story is black and white.
There is an espionage statute and what Hillary did broke laws. She received a subpoena and then went psycho on her devices with a hammer plus she deleted 33000 emails. She then went on to lie to FBI over and over. This was all proved. She also hid this latest device that contained 650000 emails.
I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone . People who argue with facts are difficult to argue with.
Just say yes I agree with you and she's going to get away with it, as I can then agree with you on that point.

Rainman16 · 06-11-2016 11:23PM

James Comey has cleared Clinton. A huge blow to the Trump campaign.
Clinton will now surely win.

Overheal · 06-11-2016 11:24PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tribute videos tend to look positive for the subject.

For me this email story is black and white.
There is an espionage statute and what Hillary did broke laws. She received a subpoena and then went psycho on her devices with a hammer plus she deleted 33000 emails. She then went on to lie to FBI over and over. This was all proved. She also hid this latest device that contained 650000 emails.
I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone . People who argue with facts are difficult to argue with.
Just say yes I agree with you and she's going to get away with it, as I can then agree with you on that point.

If it was that simple she would be in front of a grand jury right about now.

ancapailldorcha · 06-11-2016 11:24PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Please don't just dump videos here without any sort of opinion or analysis.

Hank Scorpio · 06-11-2016 11:29PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

For me this email story is black and white.

There's still some shining lights like Trey Gowdy in public office so don't give up yet.

The double standards are sickening to say the least.

Navy Sailor takes some photos on a submarine and is sent to prison.

Hank Scorpio · 06-11-2016 11:32PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Please don't just dump videos here without any sort of opinion or analysis.

Fair enough. I`ll add that he asked me for a source that there's an ongoing investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

The video I posted shows Tom Fuentas, who served 29 years in the FBI confirming the investigation, pointing out his sources are multiple heads in the FBI still working there and others on the outside.

aloyisious · 06-11-2016 11:33PM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

More "porkies" from Clinton.

If you listen to Comyn's replies, you won't hear him directly link HRC to the deletion of any emails by use of her name and this fact WAS NOT pursued by the Congressman. Even when it came to the devices traces of deletions were found on, Comyn said there was the chance that the deletions were caused by handling of the devices during replacement work on them. Listen to what the congressman said at the very start of his question and answer session with Comyn (not on the shortened version above) then to the actual questions and ask yourself this: did he intend to really give himself time to really grill Dir Comyn? The 2nd question was a two-parter and his response just that there was mail sent, without him naming the sender.

Comyn's responses left escape routes for Hillary, her staff and (importantly for Comyn) himself should anyone go deeper into that Q and A session in congress. The only thing that he and the FBI committed to about Hillary was that she was careless in the handling of emails and use of the devices, and that was self evident and unavoidable, a safe conclusion for him to reach and state without career and retirement benefit repercussions.

Sofa Spud · 06-11-2016 11:38PM

Sofa Spud wrote: »

There's an unintentionally funny interview with Kellyanne Conway during the week where the way she talked about trying to manage Trump and his phone was like a mother trying to manage her kids (she has a lot) without kicking off a tantrum. Something about suggesting "here's some interesting things to tweet about today" instead of telling him not to tweet as he'd end up throwing a strop. Not sure I've explained it well but if you look around on the net you'll find it...

Here's the link - http://uk.businessinsider.com/kellyanne-conway-on-managing-trump-its-like-saying-to-someone-how-about-having-2-brownies-and-not-6-2016-10?r=US&IR=T

BorneTobyWilde · 06-11-2016 11:44PM

Overheal wrote: »

If it was that simple she would be in front of a grand jury right about now.

In a European Justice system all this nonsense would have being dealt with sharply.
She is getting protected. I will have to accept that like every other person.
It's like she has to be more guilty to get charged with a crime. She is not guilty enough with all her actions and cover ups to date. We need more on her. We require her to take a hammer to more devices, we require her to lie more and more to the FBI, we require her to have more hidden devices, we require her to have more classified emails than she already had on her private email server. We need more.
It's incredible , but people will except it as those people what her to win and the people who don't except it are obviously deplorable simple people who have no right to question it.
It's over. Trump is fighting a war he can't win.

rossie1977 · 07-11-2016 12:04AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

In a European Justice system all this nonsense would have being dealt with sharply.
She is getting protected. I will have to accept that like every other person.
It's like she has to be more guilty to get charged with a crime. She is not guilty enough with all her actions and cover ups to date. We need more on her. We require her to take a hammer to more devices, we require her to lie more and more to the FBI, we require her to have more hidden devices, we require her to have more classified emails than she already had on her private email server. We need more.
It's incredible , but people will except it as those people what her to win and the people who don't except it are obviously deplorable simple people who have no right to question it.
It's over. Trump is fighting a war he can't win.

If there was something on her..anything, they would have found her guilty!

The fbi headed by a Republican couldn't find anything on her despite an 18 month enquiry. She was dragged up before a Republican dominated congress and they found no wrong doing regarding Benghazi.

This is just more bs by the Republicans to try and bring down their opponents. Bill Clinton had to deal with the marijuana allegations in college and a supposed affair with Jennifer Flowers in the weeks leading up to 1992. Obama had the birth cert and muslim allegations.

Sofa Spud · 07-11-2016 12:04AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJASTexUOxU&feature=youtu.be&t=3682

This is a vid from earlier where he renewed his claim about the system being rigged against him. He went on to make some coherent points about the impact of NAFTA and China entering the WTO and then, as usual, pivoted to talk about himself. He's just as bad as his many attacks on Obama and his teleprompter - when he sticks to reading what's been written for him, he sounds coherent, but as soon as he goes off it, he's back to self-aggrandising word salads....

RobertKK · 07-11-2016 12:06AM

This could make people who believe Hillary is guilty more determined.
The emails scandal did raise the issues about missing emails, smashed up devices, missing devices and what other other devices might have information on them.

bajer101 · 07-11-2016 12:13AM

"Lock her up. Lock her up."

How in the name of Jaysus has using an email server become a reason to put someone in jail?

brooke 2 · 07-11-2016 12:28AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Sky news are reporting that FBI director James comey has said that an examination of Hilary clintons emails has found "no evidence of criminal wrongdoing."

Trump is going to lose it. He went hard and heavy on the email story since they got the new emails.

Giuliani will be spitting blood!

TheOven · 07-11-2016 12:31AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's still some shining lights like Trey Gowdy in public office so don't give up yet.

The double standards are sickening to say the least.

Navy Sailor takes some photos on a submarine and is sent to prison.

Someone taking pictures of classified things in order to show others vs private server for own use.

They need to be the same for it to be a double standard.

There is also the other 2 people who took photos and weren't charged.

mrkiscool2 · 07-11-2016 12:33AM

TheOven wrote: »

Someone taking pictures of classified things in order to show others vs private server for own use.

They need to be the same for it to be a double standard.

I agree with that. Destroying evidence on the other hand? How is she getting away with a clear obstruction of justice and not following the orders of a subpoena?

Rainman16 · 07-11-2016 12:34AM

Comey is so fired when HC gets in office

Nabber · 07-11-2016 12:39AM

bajer101 wrote: »

"Lock her up. Lock her up."

How in the name of Jaysus has using an email server become a reason to put someone in jail?

The content of the mails. There are other cases where people have been locked up for the same. During the case she gave the mails to her attorneys, who also lacked the clearance to handle the documents.

Very poor handling, depending on the content she could have or possibly has endangered people's lives.

Overheal · 07-11-2016 01:10AM

bajer101 wrote: »

"Lock her up. Lock her up."

How in the name of Jaysus has using an email server become a reason to put someone in jail?

Well she is very likely going to be the next president and appoint new justices and people are worried the bench will somehow end the 2nd amendment and make abortions available at every corner drugstore and gays will take over our communities. So of course she has to be locked up.

cnocbui · 07-11-2016 01:21AM

Nabber wrote: »

The content of the mails. There are other cases where people have been locked up for the same. During the case she gave the mails to her attorneys, who also lacked the clearance to handle the documents.

Very poor handling, depending on the content she could have or possibly has endangered people's lives.

Did you know that there is a separate secure system for handling sensitive and classified material?

Are you aware that the FBI didn't find that sort of material in her emails or on her server so in all likelihood she must have used the appropriate channels for that sort of material?

So no one was handling stuff they shouldn't have and no lives were put in danger.

aloyisious · 07-11-2016 01:29AM

You've gotta love Fox News. They've a reporter waiting for Don's arrival at his latest rally, report-quote" he's late, he never arrives late, there's thousands here and THERE'S A GRASSY KNOLL BEHIND"........ Maybe he had some sort of history flashback to 1963 and it slipped in amongst his script.

Brian? · 07-11-2016 01:46AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Tribute videos tend to look positive for the subject.

For me this email story is black and white.
There is an espionage statute and what Hillary did broke laws. She received a subpoena and then went psycho on her devices with a hammer plus she deleted 33000 emails. She then went on to lie to FBI over and over. This was all proved. She also hid this latest device that contained 650000 emails.
I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone . People who argue with facts are difficult to argue with.
Just say yes I agree with you and she's going to get away with it, as I can then agree with you on that point.

People aren't arguing with "facts". None of the above is actually a fact.

aloyisious · 07-11-2016 01:57AM

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

There's still some shining lights like Trey Gowdy in public office so don't give up yet.

The double standards are sickening to say the least.

Navy Sailor takes some photos on a submarine and is sent to prison.

Sorry Hank. That serving member of the US Navy took photos of area/s designated classified aboard a US Navy warship contrary to ships, and his, standing orders, and faced a military courts-martial on charges relative to the offences laid against him under UCMJ, got a fair trial and sentence.

That case has absolutely nothing to do with the allegations laid against Hillary by her opponents which the FBI believes couldn't be proven as criminal in court using the email material found.

Overheal · 07-11-2016 02:00AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Sorry Hank. That serving member of the US Navy took photos of area/s designated classified aboard a US Navy warship contrary to his standing orders, and faced a military courts-martial on charges relative to the offences laid against him under UCMJ, got a fair trial and sentence.

That case has absolutely nothing to do with the allegations laid against Hillary by her opponents which the FBI believes couldn't be proven as criminal in court using the email material found.

For the record if Hillary did have the things she did as active duty military of course she would have been court martialed. But she's not military and we aren't talking military codes of conduct/laws.

Overheal · 07-11-2016 02:02AM

“In the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self control, they said: ‘We’re just going to take away your Twitter,'” Obama said to a laughing crowd. “If someone tweets at 2 a.m. because Saturday Night Live made fun of you, you cannot handle the nuclear codes.”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/obama-mocks-trump-for-reportedly-allowing-aides-to-confiscate-his-twitter-account/

aloyisious · 07-11-2016 02:17AM

Overheal wrote: »

For the record if Hillary did have the things she did as active duty military of course she would have been court martialed. But she's not military and we aren't talking military codes of conduct/laws

Not wanting to butt heads with you but it was Hank who introduced the comparison between the sailors conviction and how he felt Hillary was not getting equal treatment in law. There is a complete difference between his acts and the acts Hillary is accused of by her political opponent. Ditto for the laws.....

EDIT, just seen the tick below my post above, I think i took up your reply wrongly. Sorry.

Nabber · 07-11-2016 07:34AM

cnocbui wrote: »

Did you know that there is a separate secure system for handling sensitive and classified material?

Are you aware that the FBI didn't find that sort of material in her emails or on her server so in all likelihood she must have used the appropriate channels for that sort of material?

So no one was handling stuff they shouldn't have and no lives were put in danger.

One of us is confused here. Neither of us will admit it I'm sure.

The question is no longer "was there classified information" that has been established by the FBI. The question is now intent. Did she deliberately circumvent the secure systems? FBI currently say she hasn't. But the case remains open to new evidence. Which we have seen.

She handed her mails to her attorneys, who say they only searched through headers and not content. Again she thought there was no classified information and again no intent.

I'm not sure what we are arguing anymore. But the FBI were clear. Yes she was wrong, but not intentionally. In my opinion it opens a bad precedent

FBI:
“Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information. For example, seven email chains were classified at the ‘Top Secret Special Access Program’ at the time they were sent and received...There is evidence to support the conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the positions of those with whom she was corresponding about those matters, should have known an unclassified system was no place for that conversation.”

Nody · 07-11-2016 08:58AM

Nabber wrote: »

I'm not sure what we are arguing anymore. But the FBI were clear. Yes she was wrong, but not intentionally. In my opinion it opens a bad precedent

A precedent assumes this was the first time it happened; the Bush administration used private servers for multiple people inc. the president, vice president and "lost" 22 million e-mails inc. having intentional black outs around the time before, during and the month after the second war in Iraq.

If you want to talk precedent it was set by the Republicans:

Clinton’s email habits look positively transparent when compared with the subpoena-dodging, email-hiding, private-server-using George W. Bush administration. Between 2003 and 2009, the Bush White House “lost” 22 million emails. This correspondence included millions of emails written during the darkest period in America’s recent history, when the Bush administration was ginning up support for what turned out to be a disastrous war in Iraq with false claims that the country possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and, later, when it was firing U.S. attorneys for political reasons.

Like Clinton, the Bush White House used a private email server—its was owned by the Republican National Committee. And the Bush administration failed to store its emails, as required by law, and then refused to comply with a congressional subpoena seeking some of those emails. “It’s about as amazing a double standard as you can get,” says Eric Boehlert, who works with the pro-Clinton group Media Matters. “If you look at the Bush emails, he was a sitting president, and 95 percent of his chief advisers’ emails were on a private email system set up by the RNC. Imagine if for the last year and a half we had been talking about Hillary Clinton’s emails set up on a private DNC server?”

Rainman16 · 07-11-2016 09:00AM

Honestly on Sunday morning, I was predicting a Trump would win. The Comey letter was so damaging to Clinton.

But now that Comey has cleared Clinton "Again". I believe she will win.

Igotadose · 07-11-2016 09:14AM

FWIW, they're 'calling' Nevada for Clinton based on early voting. I particularly like the tweet from a Hispanic activist embedded in this article:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/election-2016-nevada-harry-reid-clinton-trump-early-vote-latinos-214426

And the tweet: "Looks like Trump got his wall after all. A wall of beautiful voters.”

1950's over. Trumplodytes should get that.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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