The Garda Strike

osmiumartist · 05-11-2016 01:47PM

cursai wrote: »

'This matter' is the one we are discussing.

Hard luck on the attempted condescension, but you just come across here like an "am I speaking this out loud" moment where you've just had this startling philosophical revelation all on you own.

cursai · 05-11-2016 01:47PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

If they are being forced to sleep in cars, then yes.

Although it's important to point out that most other public servants can't be forced to change their place of work willy-nilly. Decentralisation clearly showed this. The Government wanted to move certain departments away from Dublin which required personnel to change their place of work. There was a dispute and in the end the compromise was that the workers would get collected at their old place of work at the start of their working day, then they would be bussed out of the capital to the new workplace. The same applied for the end of the working day - they had to be dropped back off at their old place of work before they were scheduled to finish work. The despite was eventually settled by introducing new premium payments.

A Garda doesn't have such options. I could be based in Dublin and my superiors could order me to report to a station in Galway within a few days.

As what happened on friday to some students. Who were then paraded to the media entering their stations.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 01:48PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

If they are being forced to sleep in cars, then yes.

Although it's important to point out that most other public servants can't be forced to change their place of work willy-nilly. Decentralisation clearly showed this. The Government wanted to move certain departments away from Dublin which required personnel to change their place of work. There was a dispute and in the end the compromise was that the workers would get collected at their old place of work at the start of their working day, then they would be bussed out of the capital to the new workplace. The same applied for the end of the working day - they had to be dropped back off at their old place of work before they were scheduled to finish work. The dispute was eventually settled by introducing new premium payments.

A Garda doesn't have such options. I could be based in Dublin and my superiors could order me to report to a station in Galway within a few days.

Would Gardai arrest other people if they were sleeping in their cars and going back to work after a few hours?

cursai · 05-11-2016 01:49PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

Hard luck on the attempted condescension, but you just come across here like an "am I speaking this out loud" moment where you've just had this startling philosophical revelation all on you own.

Well you did say 'wha' after quoting the ENTIRE comment so how do i know which part you didnt understand.

cursai · 05-11-2016 01:49PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Would Gardai arrest other people if they were sleeping in their cars and going back to work after a few hours?

Why would they? Are you planning on making the pub urinals a full-time thing?

osmiumartist · 05-11-2016 01:50PM

cursai wrote: »

Well you did say 'wha' after quoting the ENTIRE comment so how do i know which part you didnt understand.

No matter which part it was saying "the mater is the matter we are discussing" has nothing to do with anything except you making a fool of yourself attempting to have a lame jibe.
By the way, this is me posting a post, in case you were confused. And we're at boards.ie in case that got you too. Your other question? Planet earth, solar system, Milky Way. HTH.

cursai · 05-11-2016 01:52PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

No matter which part it was saying "the mater is the matter we are discussing" has nothing to do with anything except you making a fool of yourself attempting to have a lame jibe.

Apologies.

05-11-2016 01:54PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

Rent allowance restoration of 4000 for the newer guards is a good boost. 500e increase in it for everyone else too, then the parading pay and 15e for holiday days. Thats what I've seen reported, I might be a bit off on some figures though. I think that's pretty good, should provide a big boost to the newer guards who are relatively underpaid. I think that's a realistic and reasonable offer tbh.

It's great that new recruits are getting that allowance, however it's only a raise for a few hundred, the other 10k Gardai get 500 Euro.
Pay for parading merely means working for an hour and a half more per working week. The shifts are 10 hours long, all parading time does is extend them by 15 mins & obviously pay them for those extra hours.
I'm not even entirely sure what the annual leave payment is, but if they give you 15euro per leave day, that is 510euro a year.

So, as you can see for any guard with more than a years service, this is approx 1000euro a year. Before tax.
Not too many happy with that.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 01:54PM

cursai wrote: »

Why would they? Are you planning on making the pub urinals a full-time thing?

Seems a bit reckless to me, but unfortunately I can see more of it happening to young people in the private sector who can't afford rent. I don't think someone could get proper sleep in a car and then drive to work. Gardai will have to take a lighter approach to others in this scenario if they are doing it themselves.

Maybe the upper pay of senior Gardai needs to be cut and redistributed to lower paid.

05-11-2016 01:55PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Would Gardai arrest other people if they were sleeping in their cars and going back to work after a few hours?

Why would they?
Do you think it's against the law to sleep in a car?

Sierra Oscar · 05-11-2016 01:56PM

cursai wrote: »

As what happened on friday to some students. Who were then paraded to the media entering their stations.

Indeed. There was also an issue with probationer Gardai being assigned to Louth at short notice last October. They had spent ages looking for accommodation in Dublin, signed leases and were then told to up sticks and move to Louth. It's fairly standard practice across the country.

They didn't complain but it would be nice to get decent remuneration all the same where you aren't left out of pocket every time you're ordered to move about the country.

Rightwing wrote: »

Would Gardai arrest other people if they were sleeping in their cars and going back to work after a few hours?

Can you point to me where it say's in legislation that it's illegal to sleep in a vehicle that's off the road? I notice you've stopped actually addressing the issues we are raising in our posts. :rolleyes:

osmiumartist · 05-11-2016 01:57PM

cursai wrote: »

Apologies.

Fair enough. TBH I have loads of sympathy for new recruits across the public service, and there's is significant pulling up the ladder and the top table looking after number 1, but you AGS guys here are doing yourselves no favours with constant abuse and jibes.
Thank christ you're here and not negotiating salaries.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 01:58PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Indeed. There was also an issue with probationer Gardai being assigned to Louth at short notice last October. They had spent ages looking for accommodation in Dublin, signed leases and were then told to up sticks and move to Louth. It's fairly standard practice across the country.

They didn't complain but it would be nice to get decent remuneration all the same where you aren't left out of pocket every time you're ordered to move about the country.

Can you point to me where it say's in legislation that it's illegal to sleep in a vehicle that's off the road? I notice you've stopped actually addressing the issues we are raising in our posts. :rolleyes:

May not be illegal, but it's reckless.

05-11-2016 02:00PM

Rightwing wrote: »

May not be illegal, but it's reckless.

Please explain how it is reckless to sleep in a car?
Do you find camper vans dangerous too?

cursai · 05-11-2016 02:02PM

osmiumartist wrote: »

Fair enough. TBH I have loads of sympathy for new recruits across the public service, and there's is significant pulling up the ladder and the top table looking after number 1, but you AGS guys here are doing yourselves no favours with constant abuse and jibes.
Thank christ you're here and not negotiating salaries.

I'm not AGS. But I AM pro fairness. And have no difficulties in anybody looking for better terms comparable to the work they are doing.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 02:08PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Please explain how it is reckless to sleep in a car?
Do you find camper vans dangerous too?

I'm not a Garda, and this is certainly not rocket science. But if a Garda thinks it's fine to sleep in a car, then maybe have to chase some thug in a squad car, and you'll be fresh after a 'night in a car' I truly despair.

I certainly hope you aren't a guard, and if you are, we need new training methods in Tipperary.

cursai · 05-11-2016 02:10PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not a Garda, and this is certainly not rocket science. But if a Garda thinks it's fine to sleep in a car, then maybe have to chase some thug in a squad car, and you'll be fresh after a 'night in a car' I truly despair.

I certainly hope you aren't a guard, and if you are, we need new training methods in Tipperary.

Your definitely not a Garda. If someone can sleep in a car fair play to them. Some people can't sleep in a bed with the wife snoring.
Its a pointless argument.

thomasdylan · 05-11-2016 02:11PM

bubblypop wrote: »

It's great that new recruits are getting that allowance, however it's only a raise for a few hundred, the other 10k Gardai get 500 Euro.
Pay for parading merely means working for an hour and a half more per working week. The shifts are 10 hours long, all parading time does is extend them by 15 mins & obviously pay them for those extra hours.
I'm not even entirely sure what the annual leave payment is, but if they give you 15euro per leave day, that is 510euro a year.

So, as you can see for any guard with more than a years service, this is approx 1000euro a year. Before tax.
Not too many happy with that.

All the emphasis from the gardai union has been on how difficult it is for the newer recruits to get by on their pay. This offer has addressed that with the newer recruits going to get a big boost. I don't think the older guards are particularly underpaid to be honest. I wouldn't consider an extra hour and a half a week unreasonable.

cursai · 05-11-2016 02:13PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

All the emphasis from the gardai union has been on how difficult it is for the newer recruits to get by on their pay. This has addressed that with the newer recruits going to get a big boost. I don't think the older guards are particularly underpaid to be honest. I wouldn't consider an extra hour and a half a week unreasonable.

To be fair. They are already doing 'extra' hours a week that aren't accountable. Phonecalls, time after shift ends etc. Like teachers, there is a lot of work to which no credit or time is given.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 02:14PM

cursai wrote: »

Your definitely not a Garda. If someone can sleep in a car fair play to them. Some people can't sleep in a bed with the wife snoring.
Its a pointless argument.

Anyone can sleep in car, I don't think anyone is fit for a day's work after it. That's they key point. If Gardai are sleeping in cars, there's something wrong.

05-11-2016 02:15PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

All the emphasis from the gardai union has been on how difficult it is for the newer recruits to get by on their pay. This offer has addressed that with the newer recruits going to get a big boost. I don't think the older guards are particularly underpaid to be honest. I wouldn't consider an extra hour and a half a week unreasonable.

They are looking for pay restoration. They had pay cuts & extra taxes, that's what they are looking for.
I'm not sure how the new recruits feel about it, it is great for them imo.

cursai · 05-11-2016 02:16PM

Rightwing wrote: »

Anyone can sleep in car, I don't think anyone is fit for a day's work after it. That's they key point. If Gardai are sleeping in cars, there's something wrong.

Your right. There is something wrong. Imagine having to make a life/death judgement call when your tired. Imagine having to make that same life/death judgement call when your tired AND resentful of your circumstances.

I don't want my guards being in that situation. Same for all professions carrying that load.

05-11-2016 02:18PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not a Garda, and this is certainly not rocket science. But if a Garda thinks it's fine to sleep in a car, then maybe have to chase some thug in a squad car, and you'll be fresh after a 'night in a car' I truly despair.

I certainly hope you aren't a guard, and if you are, we need new training methods in Tipperary.

Seriously?
Maybe Gardai should set up CCTV in homes, to make sure people are getting enough quality rest?
That's a ridiculous argument Tbh, I could sleep on anything, anywhere. Some people toss & turn all night in beds.

Rightwing · 05-11-2016 02:19PM

cursai wrote: »

Your right. There is something wrong. Imagine having to make a life/death judgement call when your tired. Imagine having to make that same life/death judgement call when your tired AND resentful of your circumstances.

I don't want my guards being in that situation. Same for all professions carrying that load.

And I'm also right that it is reckless. Imagine a bus driver sleeping in a car...talk about an accident waiting to happen.

Younger Gardai should get a pay rise if their situation is as bad as being made out here, older ones should foot the bill for it.

Little CuChulainn · 05-11-2016 02:21PM

Rightwing wrote: »

The Gardai 'sleeping in their cars', I hope they are cleaning their poops. LOL

You poop in your sleep?

thomasdylan · 05-11-2016 02:23PM

bubblypop wrote: »

They are looking for pay restoration. They had pay cuts & extra taxes, that's what they are looking for.
I'm not sure how the new recruits feel about it, it is great for them imo.

I just don't think the money can be there for complete restoration of cuts across the board for everyone. Every public sector worker had pay cuts, I don't see how the money is there for them all to get their pay restored. Its sensible for the guards and teachers unions to be aggressive and try to get in there first in a sense. From my point of view, the unions should be trying to push for improvement of conditions rather than money.

Little CuChulainn · 05-11-2016 02:23PM

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not a Garda, and this is certainly not rocket science. But if a Garda thinks it's fine to sleep in a car, then maybe have to chase some thug in a squad car, and you'll be fresh after a 'night in a car' I truly despair.

I certainly hope you aren't a guard, and if you are, we need new training methods in Tipperary.

If you lived an hour from work and finished at 7am to be back in at 9am to go to court where would you sleep?

cursai · 05-11-2016 02:23PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You poop in your sleep?

Anyone who gets drunk at midday would tend to have have 'accidents'.

05-11-2016 02:24PM

thomasdylan wrote: »

I just don't think the money can be there for complete restoration of cuts across the board for everyone. Every public sector worker had pay cuts, I don't see how the money is there for them all to get their pay restored. Its sensible for the guards and teachers unions to be aggressive and try to get in there first in a sense. From my point of view, the unions should be trying to push for improvement of conditions rather than money.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, but then again I'm not someone finding it hard to manage on small wages.

tayto lover · 05-11-2016 02:26PM

Rightwing wrote: »

May not be illegal, but it's reckless.

Do you think they're driving while asleep? :pac:

The Garda Strike

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