The Garda Strike

Inspector Coptoor · 01-11-2016 11:58PM

cml387 wrote: »

Public sector pensions are guaranteed by the government.
As opposed to the private pension schemes us private sector workers have which depend on the markets and mostly have tanked in the last few years.

Fully aware of that.
I'm trying to make you and others fully aware of the "gold-plated" pensions new entrants to the public sector are in line to receive.
They may be guaranteed but they will be ****e.
I work a public sector job and paid into the public sector pension for around 5 years.
I am now privately paid and have a private pension.
As I am out of the public payroll for more than 6 months, if I go back to being paid by public funds I will move on to the new, $H1tE pension so I'm taking the risk with my defined contribution private pension and a few bits of investing.

Stop listening to the media spin of how good the pensions are.
My own father worked for the state for 32 years. Got a lump sum of €75k and has a pension of €30k. He's now retired 7 years. When he turns 66 he won't get any more of a pension.

hmmm · 02-11-2016 12:02AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

My own father worked for the state for 32 years. Got a lump sum of €75k and has a pension of €30k. He's now retired 7 years. When he turns 66 he won't get any more of a pension.

At an annuity rate of 3.5%, to get that pension would require you to save about a million. I'm not saying anyone can live hugely well off on 30k a year, but I think people will be shocked when they find out just how little they are going to get with their private DC pensions - you can't beat a government guaranteed DB pension.

boring_man · 02-11-2016 12:03AM

interesting how much support there is for the guards , i guess the recent scandals - corruption stories dont bother most people

tayto lover · 02-11-2016 12:03AM

hmmm wrote: »

At an annuity rate of 3.5%, to get that pension would require you to save about a million.

So what??
That's what they were offered. Did you expect them to refuse it?

Inspector Coptoor · 02-11-2016 12:05AM

hmmm wrote: »

At an annuity rate of 3.5%, to get that pension would require you to save about a million.

Based on what life expectancy?

My father very nearly died in February due to a medical complication.
He would have been retired 6 years and 5 months at that stage and it would have cost no where near €1M.

You forget also that he has to pay income tax at 20%, PRSI and USC on the pension itself as it is a source of income.

These broad sweeping statements are tiresome

hmmm · 02-11-2016 12:06AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

These broad sweeping statements are tiresome

What broad sweeping statements? I gave you the figures, the figures show your fathers pension would cost approx a million to purchase.

tayto lover · 02-11-2016 12:06AM

boring_man wrote: »

interesting how much support there is for the guards , i guess the recent scandals - corruption stories dont bother most people

The Bankers finished me. That and the fact that I had to pay for their corruption. NAMA then and developers, councillors etc.
Name me somewhere or some profession where there's none?

Inspector Coptoor · 02-11-2016 12:10AM

hmmm wrote: »

What broad sweeping statements? I gave you the figures, the figures show your fathers pension would cost approx a million to purchase.

Time frame for that pension?
Public sector pensions being paid out stop upon death.
What would happen to the €1M had my father died a year after retirement?

Most teachers who work for 40 years, retire at 65, don't see 70.

Can you accept the point that a LOT of public servants who are unlucky enough to die soon after retirement pay more into their pensions than they will ever get out of it?

hmmm · 02-11-2016 12:12AM

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Time frame for that pension?
Public sector pensions being paid out stop upon death.
What would happen to the €1M had my father died a year after retirement?

Please go read up on how pensions work.

Most teachers who work for 40 years, retire at 65, don't see 70

I wasn't aware most teachers die before 70. Do you have any facts to back up this outlandish claim?

dresden8 · 02-11-2016 12:18AM

What's the legality in ordering a Garda to come in on his legally/administeratively mandated rest day?

If a garda is denied his rest day for no good reason how does that work out? If a garda is owed a rest day how can the commissioner order him in on the basis that another garda may possibly break the law that she is not prepared to enforce?

Interesting times.

boring_man · 02-11-2016 12:19AM

so apparently guards have a shorter life expectancy post retirement ?

never heard that one before , surprised ive never once heard it reported by reputable journalists etc

is it possible its a union concocted story ?

boring_man · 02-11-2016 12:22AM

amazes me that most people appear to take everything specific unions say at face value

take for instance this 23 k figure which is trotted out to refer to new entrants pay , newly qualified guards no more earn as little as 23 k per annum than enda kenny does

quoting basic pay when it comes to guards is meaningless to the point of outright distortion as the nature of garda pay involves a near unique set of allowances and extras , when you add the real amount up , a guard five minutes in the job is on around 30 k per annum right now

the average guard is on about 55 k per annum minus overtime right now , they are very well paid

Inspector Coptoor · 02-11-2016 12:24AM

hmmm wrote: »

Please go read up on how pensions work.

I wasn't aware most teachers die before 70. Do you have any facts to back up this outlandish claim?

I know how pensions work.

I'm being obtuse on purpose - in the same way you are being.
Unwilling to concede any point and throwing out Eddie Hobbs sound bites

TheNog · 02-11-2016 12:25AM

myshirt wrote: »

never heard that one before , surprised ive never once heard it reported by reputable journalists etc

is it possible its a union concocted story ?

By which union? Brings us right back to some of the demands being asked

Ally Dick · 02-11-2016 12:27AM

I have a work night out on Friday in Dublin city centre. Will I be walking into Ireland's answer to The Purge?

boring_man · 02-11-2016 12:27AM

a lot of people have an instinctive response to certain sectors taking industrial action , nurses could demand to be paid 250 k per annum the same week the country was facing down the barrel of an IMF arrival and the majority would support them

im convinced we will be broke again in less than ten years , we are far too wooly headed about certain topics or groups of people , we saw the same thing with pensioners recently and the absurd increase in the state pension

Donal55 · 02-11-2016 12:28AM

Ally Dick wrote: »

I have a work night out on Friday in Dublin city centre. Will I be walking into Ireland's answer to The Purge?

Thought that was Dublin when the guards were on duty.

dresden8 · 02-11-2016 12:32AM

boring_man wrote: »

so apparently guards have a shorter life expectancy post retirement ?

never heard that one before , surprised ive never once heard it reported by reputable journalists etc

is it possible its a union concocted story ?

No journalists are reputable. They follow the agenda of their rich owners.

Sorry to have to break the news to you, the media are not impartial.

Needs Must · 02-11-2016 12:37AM

Donal55 wrote:

Thought that was Dublin when the guards were on duty.

It's only when something is gone that you truly realise it. The same will happen if this strike goes ahead on Friday. Let's hope the government see sense and sort this mess out.

Paulzx · 02-11-2016 12:39AM

boring_man wrote: »

a lot of people have an instinctive response to certain sectors taking industrial action , nurses could demand to be paid 250 k per annum the same week the country was facing down the barrel of an IMF arrival and the majority would support them

Exaggerate much?.........would ye ever feck off:D

ChikiChiki · 02-11-2016 12:42AM

boring_man wrote: »

interesting how much support there is for the guards , i guess the recent scandals - corruption stories dont bother most people

I support the Guards on the front line. The guys who have to go out on the beat and deal with **** every day. From the outside the Gardai are a very divided organisation. This consists of older higher ranking Guards who want for nothing and want to maintain the status quo, then the newer and lower ranking guards who are esentially walked over and have had enough.

Paulzx · 02-11-2016 12:43AM

boring_man wrote: »

quoting basic pay when it comes to guards is meaningless to the point of outright distortion as the nature of garda pay involves a near unique set of allowances and extras , when you add the real amount up , a guard five minutes in the job is on around 30 k per annum right now

It's called shift pay. The same as any worker in any company or multinational in the country who works unsocial hours. Do ye think the lads working nights in Intel should give up their 30% shift premium or feel guilty about it?

A_Sober_Paddy · 02-11-2016 12:46AM

boring_man wrote: »

so apparently guards have a shorter life expectancy post retirement ?

never heard that one before , surprised ive never once heard it reported by reputable journalists etc

is it possible its a union concocted story ?

People who do shift work typically have 4-5 shaved off their life expectancy

http://scienceblogs.com/clock/2007/04/22/rotating-shifts-shorten-lives/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6417644

oppenheimer1 · 02-11-2016 01:03AM

Paulzx wrote: »

It's called shift pay. The same as any worker in any company or multinational in the country who works unsocial hours. Do ye think the lads working nights in Intel should give up their 30% shift premium or feel guilty about it?

It's not that they don't deserve it, it's just that quoting basic pay doesn't tell near the whole story.

By quoting only basic pay for what are essentially trainees intends to give the impression that gardai are on the breadline. The reality of course is far different, all are on a good take home pay - and most gardai are quite comfortable.

Widdershins · 02-11-2016 01:23AM

Has anyone else in other sectors had their pay restored to pre recession levels?

Edups · 02-11-2016 01:27AM

hawkelady wrote: »

Really?? Will you get your car back too the next day when some scumbags decide to joyride it knowing they will get away with their couple hours of "fun" ??

What does stealing a car and the implied looting spree for Christmas presents have in common?

PARlance · 02-11-2016 02:08AM

We do all realise that the Country is still f**ked don't we! Give new recruits pairity and leave it at that. Take that fiver back from everyone too.

We complain about politicians being in it for themselves but the majority of people will put their own short term self interests ahead of what's best for the country. Turkeys vote for turkeys.

Donal55 · 02-11-2016 08:19AM

PARlance wrote: »

We do all realise that the Country is still f**ked don't we! Give new recruits pairity and leave it at that. Take that fiver back from everyone too.

We complain about politicians being in it for themselves but the majority of people will put their own short term self interests ahead of what's best for the country. Turkeys vote for turkeys.

The politicians are in it for themselves. While everyone else were getting a fiver increase and told to eat hay they awarded themselves €100 increase minimum per week.

Keep the recovery going!

NIMAN · 02-11-2016 08:24AM

The Gardai, and indeed the teachers too, need to be careful on this.

I think many see them as people in well paid jobs, with a more or less guaranteed income for the rest of their lives. Decent pension at the end of it all too.

I don't think there will be much patience from Joe Public if they drag the arse out of this. You could see the public were already fed up with the Luas and bus drivers. Support can evaporate very quickly if people are inconvenienced.

Donal55 · 02-11-2016 08:27AM

NIMAN wrote: »

The Gardai, and indeed the teachers too, need to be careful on this.

I think many see them as people in well paid jobs, with a more or less guaranteed income for the rest of their lives. Decent pension at the end of it all too.

I don't think there will be much patience from Joe Public if they drag the arse out of this. You could see the public were already fed up with the Luas and bus drivers. Support can evaporate very quickly if people are inconvenienced.

Luas and bus drivers did alright for groups of people who lost the public support.

The Garda Strike

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