2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

B_Wayne · 31-10-2016 01:10AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That is bull and you know it.

He is facing such a case. He also has a fraud case coming up in the next few weeks.(You may recall that time he went on the offensive against the judge on the case in his campaign)

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:10AM

nc6000 wrote: »

Can you please post a link to a reputable source that backs that up?

I'm not defending Trump in any way but I think I saw elsewhere that that story was proved to be false.

A federal judge in New York has ordered counsel for Donald Trump and the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein to appear in court along with the attorney for a woman referred to only as “Jane Doe” who alleges the Republican presidential nominee raped her when she was 13.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit?client=safari

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:11AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That is bull and you know it.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit?client=safari

Tell it to the federal judge who has made orders in the case. What exactly did I say was bull.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:13AM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Someone correct me if I am wrong here but if classified emails are found in those emails, then surely, even if Clinton becomes president, she could be impeached as that would technically be treason, no?

There would have to be proof that Clinto knew that her aide was transmitting the e-mails over a unsecured system, in any event it would not be treason it would be serious but not treason.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 01:23AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

A federal judge in New York has ordered counsel for Donald Trump and the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein to appear in court along with the attorney for a woman referred to only as “Jane Doe” who alleges the Republican presidential nominee raped her when she was 13.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-alleged-rape-lawsuit?client=safari

That federal judge should go to the FBI with his findings.

A Jane Doe "who alleges"

Sounds like a made up story by the media to not, mention any names incase of a law suit.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:28AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That federal judge should go to the FBI with his findings.

A Jane Doe "who alleges"

Sounds like a made up story by the media too, not mention any names incase of a law suit.

You are incorrect the crime is statute barred for a criminal prosecution and Jan Doe or Roe (hence roe v wade) is often used in us cases to protect the identity of the person involved in matters involving sex rape abortion etc. Jane Doe is identified in court as she will have to give evidence but her identity can not be reported.

You accuse me of bull and you have no idea how the US system works.again I ask where did I write bull?

Trump has the presumption of innocence and he rightly should so too should Clinton.

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 01:28AM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Someone correct me if I am wrong here but if classified emails are found in those emails, then surely, even if Clinton becomes president, she could be impeached as that would technically be treason, no?

If classified emails are on that laptop, unsecured - it was claimed that it is a Yahoo email account, Yahoo who were being hacked for two years before Yahoo told the public, then she and Abedin are in big trouble.
It would also say Hillary was so reckless with classified information that people who had no clearance to access classified information had access to classified information.
Hillary and Huma better hope there is no classified information on the laptop as others have gone to prison for a very long time for allowing classified US state secrets to be accessed by people who had no clearance to read such information.
Chelsea Manning who allowed US secrets to be seen by people not cleared to see the classified US information was found to be guilty of treason.
Impeachment would be the least of the problems, so yes technically she could be guilty of treason if that laptop has top classified secrets given Anthony Weiner had access to the emails.
All depends on what is on that laptop.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:33AM

RobertKK wrote: »

If classified emails are on that laptop, unsecured - it was claimed that it is a Yahoo email account, Yahoo who were being hacked for two years before Yahoo told the public, then she and Abedin are in big trouble.
It would also say Hillary was so reckless with classified information that people who had no clearance to access classified information had access to classified information.
Hillary and Huma better hope there is no classified information on the laptop as others have gone to prison for a very long time for allowing classified US state secrets to be accessed by people who had no clearance to read such information.
Chelsea Manning who allowed US secrets to be seen by people not cleared to see the classified US information was found to be guilty of treason.
Impeachment would be the least of the problems, so yes technically she could be guilty of treason if that laptop has top classified secrets given Anthony Weiner had access to the emails.
All depends on what is on that laptop.

Exactly it all depends on what's on the laptop. A laptop that has been in law enforcements hands for soon time the FBI had a belief that there may be Clinton emails on it weeks ago yet they tell congress they are investigating even before the sought a warrant!

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 01:33AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

You are incorrect the crime is statute barred for a criminal prosecution and Jan Doe or Roe (hence roe v wade) is often used in us cases to protect the identity of the person involved in matters involving sex rape abortion etc. Jane Doe is identified in court as she will have to give evidence but her identity can not be reported.

You accuse me of bull and you have no idea how the US system works.again I ask where did I write bull?

Trump has the presumption of innocence and he rightly should so too should Clinton.

No crime has been proven.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:36AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

No crime has been proven.

I never said it had but the crime of having sex with a minor must in the USA be prosecuted within a certain number of years of taking place so the crime is statute bared.

Also no crime has been proven against Clinton she like Trump remains innocent and calls for either to be locked up before a jury decides on guilt is unfair on both.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 01:38AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Exactly it all depends on what's on the laptop. A laptop that has been in law enforcements hands for soon time the FBI had a belief that there may be Clinton emails on it weeks ago yet they tell congress they are investigating even before the sought a warrant!

Wrong. the emails have just been found on her aids laptop not weeks ago.

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 01:42AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Exactly it all depends on what's on the laptop. A laptop that has been in law enforcements hands for soon time the FBI had a belief that there may be Clinton emails on it weeks ago yet they tell congress they are investigating even before the sought a warrant!

They should have said about it weeks ago, but maybe initially they didn't know it involved 650,000 emails, and wanted to have all the emails they want to view separated from emails associated with the probe into Anthony Weiner's underage sexting scandal, before seeking the warrant.
I don't know, as I don't know how these things work, but I don't think Comey could sit on this information till after the election as it would have been seen as covering up before the eelction, this after he said there would be no prosecution which was the job of the Justice department to decide, so we can agree he has been doing a terrible job, but I don't think he was in a position to sit on this till after the election.
So it would be nice to know the procedures for disclosing information, irrespective of an election.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:44AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Wrong. the emails have just been found on her aids laptop not weeks ago.

And in early October, agents told FBI heads they'd found emails from Abedin on the laptop that may have been deleted from Clinton's private server. But their warrant did not allow them to read emails that were not linked to the Weiner investigation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3887790/Hillary-s-nightmare-scenario-Weiner-s-laptop-holds-650-000-emails-thousands-Clinton-s-private-server-search-WEEKS-Democrat-faces-ongoing-FBI-probe-s-elected.html

Why was Warrant only sought today when congress told before hand and as they say themselves we don't know what is there.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 01:46AM

RobertKK wrote: »

They should have said about it weeks ago, but maybe initially they didn't know it involved 650,000 emails, and wanted to have all the emails they want to view separated from emails associated with the probe into Anthony Weiner's underage sexting scandal, before seeking the warrant.
I don't know, as I don't know how these things work, but I don't think Comey could sit on this information till after the election as it would have been seen as covering up before the eelction, this after he said there would be no prosecution which was the job of the Justice department to decide, so we can agree he has been doing a terrible job, but I don't think he was in a position to sit on this till after the election.
So it would be nice to know the procedures for disclosing information, irrespective of an election.

He knows, the **** is going to hit the fan so saving his his own ass.

It's that simple.

You don't come out with a statement like that otherwise.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:49AM

RobertKK wrote: »

They should have said about it weeks ago, but maybe initially they didn't know it involved 650,000 emails, and wanted to have all the emails they want to view separated from emails associated with the probe into Anthony Weiner's underage sexting scandal, before seeking the warrant.
I don't know, as I don't know how these things work, but I don't think Comey could sit on this information till after the election as it would have been seen as covering up before the eelction, this after he said there would be no prosecution which was the job of the Justice department to decide, so we can agree he has been doing a terrible job, but I don't think he was in a position to sit on this till after the election.
So it would be nice to know the procedures for disclosing information, irrespective of an election.

The Weiner investigation told the Clinton investigation early October there may be some E-mails from Clinton server on a laptop used by Clintons aid and her then husband weiner. Why was a Warrant not sought straight away why was congress only told recently why did Trump surporters know in September there would be something in October. It stinks and what if this changes the election and it is proved nothing new on laptop is the FBI guilty of treason?

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 01:49AM

Wikileaks are saying that the Clinton campaign were involved in sending people to Trump rallies to cause trouble.
That top Clinton aide Robby Mook is close to Robert Creamer and that Creamer was involved with the DNC and the trouble at the Trump rallies was caused by Creamer and the Democrats.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:50AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

He knows, the **** is going to hit the fan so saving his his own ass.

It's that simple.

You don't come out with a statement like that otherwise.

Or he as a state employee is trying to influence a federal election knowing that there may not be enough time to show nothing on the hard drive

FISMA. · 31-10-2016 01:51AM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Someone correct me if I am wrong here but if classified emails are found in those emails, then surely, even if Clinton becomes president, she could be impeached as that would technically be treason, no?

Nixon was elected by a large majority, then impeached.

She could be elected, pardoned by Obama, or pardon herself.

Then the impeachment would begin.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:55AM

FISMA. wrote: »

Nixon was elected by a large majority, then impeached.

She could be elected, pardoned by Obama, or pardon herself.

Then the impeachment would begin.

Nixon was not impeached, as he resigned before the process was completed.

I do not believe a president could pardon a person who has not been found guilty of a crime so Obama would be well out of office.

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 01:55AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The Weiner investigation told the Clinton investigation early October there may be some E-mails from Clinton server on a laptop used by Clintons aid and her then husband weiner. Why was a Warrant not sought straight away why was congress only told recently why did Trump surporters know in September there would be something in October. It stinks and what if this changes the election and it is proved nothing new on laptop is the FBI guilty of treason?

I said before any of this 'who holds the FBI to account?'.
Comey went beyond his powers when he declared that Clinton would not be prosecuted, and the WSJ say there were people inside the FBI very unhappy with how he dealt with the email scandal and he felt under pressure.
Maybe if he had done his job properly at the start by not making himself a prosecutor and declaring Hillary would not be prosecuted, then maybe he would not be involved in the current email mess.

Comey is guilty of doing a bad job and I don't know the processes that are there to hold him to account, presume it is congress but they are next to useless.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 01:58AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I said before any of this 'who holds the FBI to account?'.
Comey went beyond his powers when he declared that Clinton would not be prosecuted, and the WSJ say there were people inside the FBI very unhappy with how he dealt with the email scandal and he felt under pressure.
Maybe if he had done his job properly at the start by not making himself a prosecutor and declaring Hillary would not be prosecuted, then maybe he would not be involved in the current email mess.

Comey is guilty of doing a bad job and I don't know the processes that are there to hold him to account, presume it is congress but they are next to useless.

That is a different question but at the moment both Clinton and Trump are innocent of any crime as neither to the best of my knowledge been convicted of any criminal act.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 02:01AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Or he as a state employee is trying to influence a federal election knowing that there may not be enough time to show nothing on the hard drive

A warrant has just been granted to find out what is in these e-mails classed as "life insurance" by Huma Abedin are.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 02:05AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

A warrant has just been granted to find out what is in these e-mails classed as "life insurance" by Huma Abedin are.

And my question is why was it not grantedin early October the reason for a warrant was that Abedin used the laptop and she is also under investigation if it was just Clinton I do not believe a warrant would have been required but am open to correction on that point from a US lawyer.

Can you give a source for the "life insurance" comment.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 02:08AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I said before any of this 'who holds the FBI to account?'.
Comey went beyond his powers when he declared that Clinton would not be prosecuted, and the WSJ say there were people inside the FBI very unhappy with how he dealt with the email scandal and he felt under pressure.
Maybe if he had done his job properly at the start by not making himself a prosecutor and declaring Hillary would not be prosecuted, then maybe he would not be involved in the current email mess.

Comey is guilty of doing a bad job and I don't know the processes that are there to hold him to account, presume it is congress but they are next to useless.

This must be serious business, for Comey to declare. Clinton would not be prosecuted.

To opening the case again 11 days before election day.

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 02:11AM

Huma Abedin had signed a document under the penalty of perjury that she had turned over all devices and had searched all devices in her possession for emails associated with the Clinton email case and that she had no copies of emails in her possession.
Currently her lawyers are in talks with the Justice department, because it seems she should be going to prison and maybe she is looking for a deal, if the laptop is the smoking gun, will she push Hillary under the bus to avoid prison?

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 02:12AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

And my question is why was it not grantedin early October the reason for a warrant was that Abedin used the laptop and she is also under investigation if it was just Clinton I do not believe a warrant would have been required but am open to correction on that point from a US lawyer.

Can you give a source for the "life insurance" comment.

Obviously new evidence was found to reopen a closed case.

Your question regarding "early October" is irrelevant.

RobertKK · 31-10-2016 02:15AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

This must be serious business, for Comey to declare. Clinton would not be prosecuted.

To opening the case again 11 days before election day.

It has to be serious, otherwise Comey will look really stupid and he will have made his position untenable.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 02:19AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Obviously new evidence was found to reopen a closed case.

Your question regarding "early October" is irrelevant.

The possibility of Clinton server e-mail being on the weiner laptop came to light in early October so it is relevant in my opinion.

Sweetemotion · 31-10-2016 02:27AM

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

The possibility of Clinton server e-mail being on the weiner laptop came to light in early October so it is relevant in my opinion.

Case closed so.

New emails. Appear on Weiner's wives laptop, case reopened.

Pro Hoc Vice · 31-10-2016 02:38AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Case closed so.

New emails. Appear on Weiner's wives laptop, case reopened.

Yes my issue is the FBI knew early October why did they wait till 11 days before election to first tell congress and therefore the media then the FBI director explain by internal letter to staff and finally only then seek the warrant.

While the case has now reopened Clinton remains innocent like Trump does in relation to 1 fraud 2 sexual assault and 3 rape.

Also the FBI admits the emails may be Ines they had already seen as they just got the warrant we do not know what's on there.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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