2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

FISMA. · 28-10-2016 11:39PM

... looks like a weiner will bring down a Clinton campaign!!!

Sand · 28-10-2016 11:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Experience that doesn't make her anymore qualified since she made a mess of most things.
Her no fly zone plan for Syria is potentially very dangerous.

Why is it very dangerous? Turkey shot down a Russian jet last year, and I missed the fine details but there was no nuclear exchange. Setting a no-fly zone over Syria and enforcing it might cost the Russians a few jets and maybe a few pilots, but the Russians are not going to see Moscow turned to a glass desert over Syria. They will huff and they will puff but if they didn't turn to nukes - or even a conventional military response - with Turkey.

The overestimation of Russian military capability and will is an outcome of a long Soviet/Russian propaganda campaign to encourage fear of both in the west. If the US enforces a no fly zone, the Russians may fly on the edges of it, but they wont cross it.

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:02AM

FISMA. wrote: »

... looks like a weiner will bring down a Clinton campaign!!!

There's nothing to bring down her campaign. She's won the election.

FISMA. · 29-10-2016 12:04AM

alastair wrote: »

There's nothing to bring down her campaign. She's won the election.

Nope. Trump won tonight.

Christy42 · 29-10-2016 12:11AM

RobertKK wrote: »

One could look at both and ask which is the psychopath.
Hillary who says she supports women and gay people but then has the Clinton Foundation accepting many millions from nations that treat women like crap and who punish or kill gay people. Maybe you find such a person is a person you can trust but her record shows she lacks real empathy and it is all about power.
One could ask which psychopath is worse, there is a reason why these two people have record low likeable ratings, neither are particular good whether they have experience or none.
I couldn't be bothered to defend any of them when it comes to their scandals, because neither of these people would care about you.
That is why I feel it is strange why anyone gets defensive over any of these two people, they aren't worth defending.

Should they turn down the money? I like that you are still equating their sins. How did the Trump foundation spend their money again (which seems like a more important question for a charity)? I didn't even mention Trump University before. How much does Trump have to do wrong before you admit he is worse? The racism, the misogyny. He can't have too high an opinion of gay people or science wither given his VP pick. Or his tweets about the reality of global warming.

You just go they both have sins and are therefore equally bad as justification for posting complaints about one side.

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:16AM

FISMA. wrote: »

Nope. Trump won tonight.

Best of luck with that.

Manach · 29-10-2016 12:16AM

With RobertKK on the no fly zone.

I would disagree that it could be implemented, as per Clinton's idea. There is little basis for it under International Law, given no specific UN resolution and the doctrine of humanitarian intervention would be problematic to apply given the multisided factors involved. That the US then would seek to impose a one sided exclusion zone is one that the Russians (even given their lag of technology would have the numbers to threaten other areas, such as from Kalingrad) could challenge. From a recent book I'm reading, The Direction of War by Hew Strachen, suggests that modern politicians have drifted away from a proper appreciation of the randomness and friction that is inherant in war. Thus incidents when confronting a regional power like Russia can easily spiral out of control.

K-9 · 29-10-2016 12:18AM

FISMA. wrote: »

Nope. Trump won tonight.

If it was anybody else, maybe. It's Trump, 1 step forward and 2 steps back is the story of his campaign.

To Trump supporters this is huge, just like they thought he won the first 2 debates!

Until something tangible can be pointed to, this will be forgotten about in a day or 2.

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:25AM

Manach wrote: »

With RobertKK on the no fly zone.

I would disagree that it could be implemented, as per Clinton's idea. There is little basis for it under International Law, given no specific UN resolution and the doctrine of humanitarian intervention would be problematic to apply given the multisided factors involved. That the US then would seek to impose a one sided exclusion zone is one that the Russians (even given their lag of technology would have the numbers to threaten other areas, such as from Kalingrad) could challenge. From a recent book I'm reading, The Direction of War by Hew Strachen, suggests that modern politicians have drifted away from a proper appreciation of the randomness and friction that is inherant in war. Thus incidents when confronting a regional power like Russia can easily spiral out of control.

The lack of a UN resolution didn't impede the establishment of a no-fly zone in Kosovo - again with a situation of multi-sided combatants. The last Clinton administration was up to the job, and, to a large degree, it was deemed to have shortened what was a very nasty conflict. It's not impossible to think that the US could call Russia's bluff in Syria, and end the stalemate - since the Assad regime is clearly not going to regain control over all the Syrian people.

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:26AM

K-9 wrote: »

If it was anybody else, maybe.

I wouldn't even go that far. It's a nothing story on an issue that nobody really cares about.

PopePalpatine · 29-10-2016 12:32AM

I'm just wondering - what could possibly show up in Anthony Wiener or Huma Abedin's inboxes that could be so devastating to the Clinton campaign? What reason would she have to send classified documents to either of them?

Manach · 29-10-2016 12:37AM

alastair wrote: »

The lack of a UN resolution didn't impede the establishment of a no-fly zone in Kosovo - again with a situation of multi-sided combatants. The last Clinton administration was up to the job, and to a large degree, it was deemed to have shortened what was a very nasty conflict. It's not impossible to think that the yS could call Russia's bluff in Syria, and end the stalemate - since the Assad regime is clearly not going to regain control over all the Syrian people.

The lack of UN resolution was both highly criticized at the time and there were numerous protests after the fact by nonaligned powers about this abrogation of the norms at the time of international law. Thus this break lead to both a souring of Russian relations and a more and interventionist regime by other powers (Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Crimeia etc). So if you are saying that the Kosovo intervention is a good precedent then clearly you can explain what constitutes the proper application of force within the world community that does not degenerate into nationalist partisan politics and mores?

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:38AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm just wondering - what could possibly show up in Anthony Wiener or Huma Abedin's inboxes that could be so devastating to the Clinton campaign? What reason would she have to send classified documents to either of them?

Even if there were photos of Hillary standing over the corpses of the 48 victims of her, and her husbands, political murder spree, it's not going to make any difference to the campaign. There's not going to be any findings on this stuff for weeks, and then, it's most likely going to be more of the same.

alastair · 29-10-2016 12:42AM

Manach wrote: »

The lack of UN resolution was both highly criticized at the time and there were numerous protests after the fact by nonaligned powers about this abrogation of the norms at the time of international law. Thus this break lead to both a souring of Russian relations and a more and interventionist regime by other powers (Iraq, Afganistan, Libya, Crimeia etc). So if you are saying that the Kosovo intervention is a good precedent then clearly you can explain what constitutes the proper application of force within the world community that does not degenerate into nationalist partisan politics and mores?

It saved lives, and there's never been a time when countries weren't going to war, so it's a bit rich to suggest it triggered some change in that regard. I think it did more good than bad.

FISMA. · 29-10-2016 12:43AM

Hillary just spoke in the States.

... blah, blah, blah... I demand you release, blah, blah, blah...

As a lawyer, perhaps, she understands that the FBI cannot comment on ongoing investigations?

Amazing how bad her memory is when she speaks to the Feds under oath but how she doesn't miss a beat when free to lie!

Sand · 29-10-2016 12:43AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm just wondering - what could possibly show up in Anthony Wiener or Huma Abedin's inboxes that could be so devastating to the Clinton campaign? What reason would she have to send classified documents to either of them?

I am going to guess nothing really. I think the FBI was not unaware that this would throw among a cat amongst the pigeons and probably agonised about it for a while. I think they fell on the side of its better that we dot the i's and cross the t's and observe the bureaucratic legalities rather than be seen to 'cover up' the discovery of emails that will likely prove to be inconsequential.

Of course the media are lapping it up because the whole election has died a death since Trumps handlers have kept him away from microphones for the past week. And of course Trump fans are cranking it up because they realise their candidate has already lost.

Trent Houseboat · 29-10-2016 12:54AM

Both sides predicting on what effect this will have are getting ahead of themselves. Trump has said dozens of things that would have disqualified himself for nomination for dog catcher in years previous, forget about the actual election.
The Wikileaks were entirely boring for their lack of substance, but would have scuttled a regular Dem in this 24/7 news environment in which we live.

People don't trust or like either Clinton or Trump. This will be seen as a headshot by Donald's supporters and as a continuation of the 25 year witch hunt by Hillary's. Just like each side claims victory after the debates.

FISMA. · 29-10-2016 01:03AM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

... continuation of the 25 year witch hunt by Hillary's.

Witch-hunt?

Today's information was found during an investigation of a middle aged man sexting a 15 year old girl.

That witch-hunt?

Hillary lies about Benghazi and an investigation in to that lie uncovers a personal server.

That witch hunt?

Seems like just rewards for perverts and liars.

RobertKK · 29-10-2016 01:06AM

Sand wrote: »

Why is it very dangerous? Turkey shot down a Russian jet last year, and I missed the fine details but there was no nuclear exchange. Setting a no-fly zone over Syria and enforcing it might cost the Russians a few jets and maybe a few pilots, but the Russians are not going to see Moscow turned to a glass desert over Syria. They will huff and they will puff but if they didn't turn to nukes - or even a conventional military response - with Turkey.

The overestimation of Russian military capability and will is an outcome of a long Soviet/Russian propaganda campaign to encourage fear of both in the west. If the US enforces a no fly zone, the Russians may fly on the edges of it, but they wont cross it.

The Russian plane had flown into Turkish airspace for 17 seconds after being warned 10 times to change course.

Russia are in Syria at the request of Assad.
Syria is a proxy war between Sunni and Shia Muslim nations with Russia on the Shia side and the west supporting the ISIS supporting Gulf states of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
The downing of the Russian plane was not a threat to Assad or Russian aims, but if Hillary wants to remove Assad the way she did with Gaddafi, Russia will not stand aside to allow it happen.
The Turkish incident was small fry in the larger scheme of things.
We should remember how Hillary gets so much wrong.

BorneTobyWilde · 29-10-2016 01:08AM

Clinton asking FBI to release their information while an investigation is ongoing is down right
stupid. They can't do that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 29-10-2016 01:09AM

FISMA. wrote: »

Witch-hunt?

Today's information was found during an investigation of a middle aged man sexting a 15 year old girl.

That witch-hunt?

Hillary lies about Benghazi and an investigation in to that lie uncovers a personal server.

That witch hunt?

Seems like just rewards for perverts and liars.

You know Trump has a court case pending in relation to his rape of a 13 year old right?

scamalert · 29-10-2016 01:15AM

Watched presidential election since start and while Trump has his bright moments of ideas,i came to question why is he running for president ?
He piggy backed of his dad's loan,built his business from cheap immigrant labor,importing stuff from abroad,exporting his businesses abroad,running his own tv show and paying null in taxes but also benefited from recession.
His only political interests over decades was backing up losing presidents for hell knows what deals,and losing at every step.

Now his promises are loud but,as history shows every president does whatever it takes but his approach is different in a way where he wants total power and feels like everyone that rubbed him wrong would have it coming if he becomes one.
guess that's the real mystery why would someone having everything want to have total power in highest position.

RobertKK · 29-10-2016 01:21AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm just wondering - what could possibly show up in Anthony Wiener or Huma Abedin's inboxes that could be so devastating to the Clinton campaign? What reason would she have to send classified documents to either of them?

There are claims from an NBC news reporter that the FBI were looking at Anthony Weiner's laptop and it was found Huma Abedin also used the laptop, and she was suppose to hand over to the FBI all the devices she used as part of the FBI investigation, and there were emails on the laptop between Huma Abedin and Hillary Clinton.

RobertKK · 29-10-2016 01:23AM

scamalert wrote: »

Watched presidential election since start and while Trump has his bright moments of ideas,i came to question why is he running for president ?
He piggy backed of his dad's loan,built his business from cheap immigrant labor,importing stuff from abroad,exporting his businesses abroad,running his own tv show and paying null in taxes but also benefited from recession.
His only political interests over decades was backing up losing presidents for hell knows what deals,and losing at every step.

Now his promises are loud but,as history shows every president does whatever it takes but his approach is different in a way where he wants total power and feels like everyone that rubbed him wrong would have it coming if he becomes one.
guess that's the real mystery why would someone having everything want to have total power in highest position.

So he can live in the White House and be forever famous.

Trent Houseboat · 29-10-2016 01:29AM

FISMA. wrote: »

Witch-hunt?

Today's information was found during an investigation of a middle aged man sexting a 15 year old girl.

That witch-hunt?

Hillary lies about Benghazi and an investigation in to that lie uncovers a personal server.

That witch hunt?

Seems like just rewards for perverts and liars.

What?

I wrote that both sides making more of this than was avaliable to them.

I know the automatic response from alt right is "but but Benghazi", but it has no bearing on what I said. Then you're making it look as though I was defending a paedophile. You should have saved that for your next stock response.

RobertKK · 29-10-2016 01:36AM

On Anderson Cooper's program they said Huma Abedin is more than a close aide to Hillary Clinton, that she is basically the right arm and part of the brain of Hillary Clinton, that she is as close as a close family member to Hillary Clinton.
On NBC they said there are thousands of emails involved and they are between Huma and Hillary, and the FBI have to see if there is classified material on the laptop.

There might be nothing, but if Hillary is elected and there is a problem then a special prosecutor would have to be brought in to deal with the case like what happened to Bill Clinton with Kenneth Starr.

FISMA. · 29-10-2016 01:55AM

RobertKK wrote: »

There might be nothing

Have a look over Hillary's Non Disclosure Agreement.

Of course, there's plenty.

I think you meant to say, nothing will come of it.

There's several violations that would send anyone other than HRC away.

RobertKK · 29-10-2016 02:04AM

The FBI need a court order to access emails according to NBC.

There are some claims the emails in question were emails that were forwarded to a Yahoo email account and the emails in question are classified and top secret emails.
If true, was she forwarding stuff for Weiner to see that originated from the Clinton private server?

FISMA. · 29-10-2016 02:39AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You know Trump has a court case pending in relation to his rape of a 13 year old right?

"As of now, all of the information about this lawsuit comes solely from the complaint filed by "Katie Johnson," and no one has as yet located, identified, or interviewed her."

:rolleyes:

Source - snopes

Black Swan · 29-10-2016 04:04AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You know Trump has a court case pending in relation to his rape of a 13 year old right?

FISMA. wrote: »

Source - snopes

The Guardian: "Trump lawyers given court date over lawsuit alleging rape of 13-year-old." US District Court Judge Ronnie Abrams of New York ordered Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein to appear in court 16 December 2016.
International Business Times: "Donald Trump Sexual Assault Accusations: Timeline And List Of Women With Lawsuits, Including A 13-Year-Old Girl."
The Washington Times: "Donald Trump rape accuser gets Dec. 16 court date for federal civil suit: Report."
And many more sources... but why bother? A vote for Trump, is a vote for sexual assault: "Grab them by the p****."

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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