2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

FA Hayek · 28-10-2016 09:36PM

If/When Hillary wins this election, people are going to wake up a few days later and realise they have a president that no one really wanted. She will be in for a torrid time and will be lucky in my opinion to last 4 years never mind get re-elected.

This will be spun of course that she is hated for being a woman but she will be hated because she is Hillary Clinton and all the baggage that has come with her.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-10-2016 09:38PM

FA Hayek wrote: »

If/When Hillary wins this election, people are going to wake up a few days later and realise they have a president that no one really wanted. She will be in for a torrid time and will be lucky in my opinion to last 4 years never mind get re-elected.

This will be spun of course that she is hated for being a woman but she will be hated because she is Hillary Clinton and all the baggage that has come with her.

I agree, The same could be said for both candidates.

Sofa Spud · 28-10-2016 09:38PM

Inquitus wrote: »

It sounds like this is nothing at all, due to a separate investigation they have had to review some mails sent by Clinton, and as he has stood in front of congress on the issue he is legally bound to notify them of the same. This is certainly not a re-opening of the investigation and any mention of that is simply headline grabbing mis-reporting.

Agreed - this sounds like the most realistic summation of what has happened - one of the devices that belonged to Huma Abedin probably had a cache of emails from Clinton that had been deleted by Clinton on her side, and so they need to review them to determine if they were classified. Potentially no more. no less and will most like end up being nothing in the end but great ammunition for the haters....

Gringo180 · 28-10-2016 09:41PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

For what?

Federal law makes it a crime for a trusted U.S. official to “knowingly and willfully” disclose or transmit secret information to an “unauthorized person.” A second law makes it a crime to “remove” secret documents kept by the government or to allow them to be stolen through “gross negligence.”

Herself and her husband are corrupt to the core and if she gets into the White House they will be sold to the highest bidder.

marienbad · 28-10-2016 09:42PM

RobertKK wrote: »

They do including our own Eamon Gilmore who was all for that FSA in Syria.
Cameron and Sarkozy and their governments most guilty in Europe, along with Blair for Iraq.

She pushed for the removal of Gaddafi, the country is now in a far worse mess, which is still home to many thousands of ISIS members.
She hasn't a clue along with many other western leaders what they are doing most of the time, and usually just produce a far bigger mess than the original problem.

I think we can all agree that the policy of ''the West '' is the Middle East for 50 years or more has just been one long disaster .

The problem with you is your hatred of HRC is so great that you are elevating her to the top of the pile when in fact she had only executive power for 4 years and even then not at the height of the cock ups.

She has to take her fair share of responsibility but she is simply not in the same league as Bush Cheney Powell Rice Blair Straw etc

Billy86 · 28-10-2016 09:47PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You know you don't have to be so defensive of Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the election?

I don't think Trump is much worse, he hasn't his fingers in every major disaster in the middle east from Iraq to Libya, to Syria to Yemen, she has been one of the main causes of the migrant crisis, and has been an absolute failure as secretary of state.

Neither have I, and unlike Trump I did not support them at the time either. Can I be president now and we'll just call it a day?

EDIT: I've also never given the ball away, committed a single foul, misplaced any passes or missed a single shot in a professional football match, so surely I am better suited than anyone to be Ireland and Man Utd's captain and the first name on the teamsheet. Seriously, by your logic this is without any exaggeration what you would agree with.

Black Swan · 28-10-2016 09:56PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Killary should be behind bars for the rest of her days not running for the President of the United States.

Fortunately, the US is a country of laws, and its citizens are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Hillary Clinton has been investigated numerous times for years, especially by the Republican controlled Congress, but unlike Donald Trump, she is not currently a defendant in court. Donald Trump is a current defendant for alleged "fraud, racketeering, and corruption" as founder of failed Trump University, and is scheduled to go to trial in US District Court, San Diego, CA, 28 November 2016.

Of course Donald Trump has claimed during presidential debate and during his rallies that Hillary Clinton "should be behind bars," and that he would push for a special prosecutor to pursue the jailing of his political opponent if he is elected president, just like what we hear Banana Republic dictators do with their political opponents, or what Russian dictators were known to do when sending their political opponents to Siberia.

Billy86 · 28-10-2016 10:06PM

Black Swan wrote: »

Fortunately, the US is a country of laws, and its citizens are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Hillary Clinton has been investigated numerous times for years, especially by the Republican controlled Congress, but unlike Donald Trump, she is not currently a defendant in court. Donald Trump is a current defendant for alleged "fraud, racketeering, and corruption" as founder of failed Trump University, and is scheduled to go to trial in US District Court, San Diego, CA, 28 November 2016.

Of course Donald Trump has claimed during presidential debate and during his rallies that Hillary Clinton "should be behind bars," and that he would push for a special prosecutor to pursue the jailing of his political opponent if he is elected president, just like what we hear Banana Republic dictators do with their political opponents, or what Russian dictators were known to do when sending their political opponents to Siberia.

I could well be wrong on this, and it's not something that would ever be explicitly brought up, but I get a feeling after those comments that certain people are going to see that Trump, if found guilty, gets anything but a lenient sentence.

I'm guessing his 1.5 per week lawsuits per week (no seriously, do the maths... his first was 1973, so 3,500 divided by the 43 years since = 81.4 per year, which divided by 52 weeks = 1.56 lawsuits per week. For 43 straight years!!) habit is going to bite him significantly in the ass from this point on, and with how badly his businesses are failing, it could be very interesting to see where he stands not too long from now.

Bit tinfoil hat-ish, but it's certainly one worth keeping an eye on in the coming years.

F***ing seriously though, imagine 43 solid years in a row of going new court cases ever 4 and a half days. :eek:

philstar · 28-10-2016 10:06PM

seems like team Clinton released the Trump sex tapes too soon..they should have waited sooner to election day

m1ck007 · 28-10-2016 10:08PM

Fbi reopen case against hilary this evening = trump win

20Cent · 28-10-2016 10:09PM

m1ck007 wrote: »

Fbi reopen case against hilary this evening = trump win

Not really story debunked already. Trump supporters will see another conspiracy of course. It's probably just lots of photos of Weiners Weiner.

m1ck007 · 28-10-2016 10:10PM

20Cent wrote: »

m1ck007 wrote: »

Fbi reopen case against hilary this evening = trump win

Not really story debunked already. Trump supporters will see another conspiracy of course. It's probably just lots of photos of Weiners Weiner.

How has the story been debunked when the FBI havent released details of their new investigation this evening?

Christy42 · 28-10-2016 10:12PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You know you don't have to be so defensive of Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the election?

I don't think Trump is much worse, he hasn't his fingers in every major disaster in the middle east from Iraq to Libya, to Syria to Yemen, she has been one of the main causes of the migrant crisis, and has been an absolute failure as secretary of state.

She has easily more experience than anyone else who has been president in recent times. She has been pillared repeatedly over the same things. These are doing the same thing Mr. Powell did and that no one cares about and getting the entire blame for the Benghazi incident which let's be fair did remove a horrific human being from the planet and she hardly did that on her own. She has also shown a great knowledge of policy, a calm head, has worked for a large portion of her life in office.

She is up against a man who has no idea of foreign policy. He has shown repeatedly he doesn't know what effect trade deals have. He has shown he has no idea what ISIS is. He has called Mexicans rapists. Come up with unworkable plans. Threatened to increase American military actions. Make war crimes official policy. Flies off the handle when called names but has no issue dishing out childish insults (when other people attack him they are being mean and nasty women, when he does it is calling it like it is). He has a history of not paying workers, has used charity money to buy pictures of himself, has confessed to sexual harassment, blamed a reporter's question on her period, insulted soldiers for getting shot/captured, gone bankrupt repeatedly after starting with plenty of money, has 0 experience of public office and nor has he ever shown any desire to take a position where he could make a difference that wasn'the the one that would inflate his ego the most. He has given out about other candidates not releasing their tax returns and then not released them. He gave about others for not paying enough tax and then bragged about not paying any. Has he had a speech were he has been able to concentrate long enough to get through without making random crazy Comments? His financial policies are entirely unworkable and the main tax cut I have seen bragged about only helps the rich. He tried to ban people of a certain religion from the place where European's settled partially to avoid religious persecution. I am pretty sure I am forgetting a few things here. The only reason he hasn't been involved in a political disaster is it would have implied he ever cared about holding a public office that didn't stroke his ego.

Sure I would have had a tough choice between Hillary and Bernie but the fact that Trump is getting more than 10% of the vote is mind boggling to me. I don't like any of the other candidates but I can understand a protest vote against the two party system.

Permabear · 28-10-2016 10:12PM

This post has been deleted.

Billy86 · 28-10-2016 10:13PM

m1ck007 wrote: »

How has the story been debunked when the FBI havent released details of their new investigation this evening?

Read the last few pages of the thread.

Billy86 · 28-10-2016 10:15PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You know what's really bizarre/worrying? I think there is exactly one other prominent Republican she would still be in with a good chance of beating - Ted Cruz.

E.g. the guy who came runaway second in the primaries.

m1ck007 · 28-10-2016 10:16PM

Id say Trump is going to win this regardless. He is not that far away even though he is an idiot which speaks volumes. Id say we will see a lot of closet Trump votes, much like brexit, with the democrats not voting as they think the race has already been won.

alastair · 28-10-2016 10:17PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You know you don't have to be so defensive of Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the election?

I don't think Trump is much worse, he hasn't his fingers in every major disaster in the middle east from Iraq to Libya, to Syria to Yemen, she has been one of the main causes of the migrant crisis, and has been an absolute failure as secretary of state.

I suppose it doesn't really matter that she was out of government when the Saudi's started their campaign in Yemen?

m1ck007 · 28-10-2016 10:18PM

She wont stop the sale of weapons to the middle east though.

Means Of Escape · 28-10-2016 10:28PM

JFK jnr would have been running in this election and would have sailed through.

This spectacle is a national embarrassment for the US

GUBU

B_Wayne · 28-10-2016 10:30PM

m1ck007 wrote: »

How has the story been debunked when the FBI havent released details of their new investigation this evening?

There's absolutely no indication that the investigation is reopened. Even Podesta has requested that Comey reveals what they think they have... Comey is being incredibly vague so it's impossible to determine if there's anything.

m1ck007 wrote: »

Id say Trump is going to win this regardless. He is not that far away even though he is an idiot which speaks volumes. Id say we will see a lot of closet Trump votes, much like brexit, with the democrats not voting as they think the race has already been won.

Polls were spot on for the primaries.....

marienbad · 28-10-2016 10:31PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Permabear surely you don't want Trump to win ???

Sand · 28-10-2016 10:32PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Thats very true, but whats very puzzling is how Trump ever got through the Republican primaries and is the genuine candidate of the party of Lincoln. That is amazing and should be of deep concern to Republicans given they will be tarnished as being the party of Trump for decades to come. They really are at risk of devolving into a party of unelectable cranks and flat earthers.

Clinton might be a poor candidate (and she is) but she is not a racist. She is not defending herself in court for fraud. She has not dodged taxes. She has not got a history of sexual predatory behaviour. She seems competent enough to have a career in public service for 30 years and the best muckrakers can come up with against her is she ill-advisedly used a private email server.

I mean, yes, she would be sunk in a race against any other candidate but no one can argue Clinton is unacceptable for the office of President because of bland emails and then argue that Trump is the guy to vote for. Other than blind hatred of Clinton there is no justifiable reason for voting for Trump.

Overheal · 28-10-2016 10:37PM

philstar wrote: »

seems like team Clinton released the Trump sex tapes too soon..they should have waited sooner to election day

Her campaign had no affiliations

AbusesToilets · 28-10-2016 10:49PM

Sand wrote: »

Thats very true, but whats very puzzling is how Trump ever got through the Republican primaries and is the genuine candidate of the party of Lincoln. That is amazing and should be of deep concern to Republicans given they will be tarnished as being the party of Trump for decades to come. They really are at risk of devolving into a party of unelectable cranks and flat earthers.

Clinton might be a poor candidate (and she is) but she is not a racist. She is not defending herself in court for fraud. She has not dodged taxes. She has not got a history of sexual predatory behaviour. She seems competent enough to have a career in public service for 30 years and the best muckrakers can come up with against her is she ill-advisedly used a private email server.

I mean, yes, she would be sunk in a race against any other candidate but no one can argue Clinton is unacceptable for the office of President because of bland emails and then argue that Trump is the guy to vote for. Other than blind hatred of Clinton there is no justifiable reason for voting for Trump.

The Republicans haven't been the party of Lincoln for sometime, as evidenced by their primaries. A schism is needed, with the Tea Party sect shorn away and left to be their own entity.

Black Swan · 28-10-2016 10:51PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Remember when "family values" were raised years ago as if they were an important qualification for president? It follows that the "family values" norms for both Democratic and Republican nominees have grandly changed, especially if we recall why Gary Hart had been eliminated from running during the 1984 presidency. It had been discovered he had a mutually consensual extra-marital affair with Donna Rice, then POOF, no more candidacy for Gary Hart.

But apparently times have been changing where "family values" no longer hold sway, especially when we consider the extra-marital affair that Donald Trump had with mistress Marla Maples while he was still married and had children with Ivana Trump (which resulted in divorce from his first wife and marrying his mistress). Of course after a few short years Marla was traded-in for a younger model 3rd wife Melania; which, if Trump does not win 8 November 2016, methinks Melania will be traded-in for a younger model replacement (e.g., just like dumping the old car for a new one every few years).

m1ck007 · 28-10-2016 10:55PM

B_Wayne wrote: »

m1ck007 wrote: »

How has the story been debunked when the FBI havent released details of their new investigation this evening?

There's absolutely no indication that the investigation is reopened. Even Podesta has requested that Comey reveals what they think they have... Comey is being incredibly vague so it's impossible to determine if there's anything.

m1ck007 wrote: »

Id say Trump is going to win this regardless. He is not that far away even though he is an idiot which speaks volumes. Id say we will see a lot of closet Trump votes, much like brexit, with the democrats not voting as they think the race has already been won.

Polls were spot on for the primaries.....

BBC headline tonight 'FBI probes New hilary clinton emails'

RobertKK · 28-10-2016 10:58PM

Christy42 wrote: »

She has easily more experience than anyone else who has been president in recent times. She has been pillared repeatedly over the same things. These are doing the same thing Mr. Powell did and that no one cares about and getting the entire blame for the Benghazi incident which let's be fair did remove a horrific human being from the planet and she hardly did that on her own. She has also shown a great knowledge of policy, a calm head, has worked for a large portion of her life in office.

She is up against a man who has no idea of foreign policy. He has shown repeatedly he doesn't know what effect trade deals have. He has shown he has no idea what ISIS is. He has called Mexicans rapists. Come up with unworkable plans. Threatened to increase American military actions. Make war crimes official policy. Flies off the handle when called names but has no issue dishing out childish insults (when other people attack him they are being mean and nasty women, when he does it is calling it like it is). He has a history of not paying workers, has used charity money to buy pictures of himself, has confessed to sexual harassment, blamed a reporter's question on her period, insulted soldiers for getting shot/captured, gone bankrupt repeatedly after starting with plenty of money, has 0 experience of public office and nor has he ever shown any desire to take a position where he could make a difference that wasn'the the one that would inflate his ego the most. He has given out about other candidates not releasing their tax returns and then not released them. He gave about others for not paying enough tax and then bragged about not paying any. Has he had a speech were he has been able to concentrate long enough to get through without making random crazy Comments? His financial policies are entirely unworkable and the main tax cut I have seen bragged about only helps the rich. He tried to ban people of a certain religion from the place where European's settled partially to avoid religious persecution. I am pretty sure I am forgetting a few things here. The only reason he hasn't been involved in a political disaster is it would have implied he ever cared about holding a public office that didn't stroke his ego.

Sure I would have had a tough choice between Hillary and Bernie but the fact that Trump is getting more than 10% of the vote is mind boggling to me. I don't like any of the other candidates but I can understand a protest vote against the two party system.

Experience that doesn't make her anymore qualified since she made a mess of most things.
Her no fly zone plan for Syria is potentially very dangerous.

The thing is nether of the candidates are good, but you post as if there is only one not good, what good is Hillary's experience when it is just a trail of disaster.
Her reset button with Russia seems to have put relations back to the cold war...she has the Midas touch, except everything she touches turns to excrement.

Christy42 · 28-10-2016 11:08PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Experience that doesn't make her anymore qualified since she made a mess of most things.
Her no fly zone plan for Syria is potentially very dangerous.

The thing is nether of the candidates are good, but you post as if there is only one not good, what good is Hillary's experience when it is just a trail of disaster.
Her reset button with Russia seems to have put relations back to the cold war...she has the Midas touch, except everything she touches turns to excrement.

Hardly you just blame her for everything bad that has happened overy the last 15 years. Sure her experience makes her more qualified. I mean not by itself-you also need Trump's obvious lack of knowledge.

Hillary has several issues. It is just like comparing a pickpocket and a psychopath. IT is a false equivalence. You can say the pickpocket is bad but you can't really compare to the psychopath.

RobertKK · 28-10-2016 11:29PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Hardly you just blame her for everything bad that has happened overy the last 15 years. Sure her experience makes her more qualified. I mean not by itself-you also need Trump's obvious lack of knowledge.

Hillary has several issues. It is just like comparing a pickpocket and a psychopath. IT is a false equivalence. You can say the pickpocket is bad but you can't really compare to the psychopath.

One could look at both and ask which is the psychopath.
Hillary who says she supports women and gay people but then has the Clinton Foundation accepting many millions from nations that treat women like crap and who punish or kill gay people. Maybe you find such a person is a person you can trust but her record shows she lacks real empathy and it is all about power.
One could ask which psychopath is worse, there is a reason why these two people have record low likeable ratings, neither are particular good whether they have experience or none.
I couldn't be bothered to defend any of them when it comes to their scandals, because neither of these people would care about you.
That is why I feel it is strange why anyone gets defensive over any of these two people, they aren't worth defending.