Mens Rights Thread

iptba · 11-10-2016 06:59PM

iptba wrote: »

I wonder was Frances Fitzgerald's feminist/women's activist background a factor in this:

Also:

The Minister further welcomed an increase in funding for the National Women’s Council of Ireland, “The increase in funding for the NWCI of 20% to €480,000 for 2017 is very welcome and further builds on the increased funding provided last year.”

http://justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR16000284

*The quote is from the Minister of State but she is the main minister for the department

Ben Gadot · 11-10-2016 07:21PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Here's a bit more:

https://hequal.wordpress.com/2016/09/26/domestic-violence-double-standards-male-mp-was-forced-to-stand-down-when-cautioned-for-assaulting-partner-yet-sarah-champion-receives-support-for-same-crime/

Utterly disgraceful. She's received support from the "Jeremy Corbyn for Leader" page.

I agree that it's a double standard but the article is barking up the wrong tree mentioning alcohol and depression in an apologetic sense.

I don't think you'll find many people, man or woman, forgiving of domestic abuse even in the case of mental health and addiction.

JRant · 12-10-2016 04:11PM

Candie wrote: »

Generally, that's the case for most crimes and especially violent and sexual offenders.

This guy though, he's had clubs courting him regarding resuming his career, his girlfriend - who he cheated on apart from any possible guilt - stayed with him, he has numerous friends and allies supporting him (and vilifying the victim) on social media, and doesn't seem to have suffered too badly in spite of the guilty verdict.

That's fame though. Mike Tyson, a convicted rapist, has been re-cast as a lovable squeaky-voiced personality, making cameos in movies like The Hangover.

He spent a number of years in prison, his career as a top flight footballer ruined and massive loss in earnings. If he is found to be not guilt, then yes, he has suffered and will do for a long time.

Generally it's only the case for male defendants as well. When it's a woman involved in grooming a young boy words like 'love' and 'relationship' are almost always brought up and sentences are ridiculously lenient.

deandean · 14-10-2016 05:23PM

deandean wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread - men's rights - but there is a case in the UK at the moment where a well-known man is being re-tried on a rape charge after his first conviction was quashed on appeal.

ched evans link

I think it's unfair that the accuser has her name protected and gives evidence from behind a screen, whereas the defendant has his name and photographs splashed over every media there is.

...and no surprise, he was found not guilty.
What a sham trial. Men's rights my aras the man's name has now been dragged through the mud twice.
I think this type of trial is far, far less likely to proceed here in Ireland, fortunately.

deandean · 14-10-2016 05:23PM

deandean wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right thread - men's rights - but there is a case in the UK at the moment where a well-known man is being re-tried on a rape charge after his first conviction was quashed on appeal.

ched evans link

I think it's unfair that the accuser has her name protected and gives evidence from behind a screen, whereas the defendant has his name and photographs splashed over every media there is.

...and no surprise, he was found not guilty.
What a sham trial. Men's rights my aras the man's name has now been dragged through the mud twice.
I think this type of trial is far, far less likely to proceed here in Ireland, fortunately.

Dr Jakub · 14-10-2016 05:40PM

Some nice state sponsored anti-male indoctrination in Australia. Why not lecture girls on female privilege? I'm sure it will be good for their self esteem too.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-37640353

iptba · 20-10-2016 03:28AM

The acting head of the Irish Penal Reform Trust was on High Noon with George Hook on Newstalk on Wednesday.

I didn't catch all the interview but in the bit I heard, some of the talk was that prison wasn't a suitable place for some people particularly women. Also talked about how female offenders often came from difficult situations. And then she thought it was shocking that of over 9000 people jailed for not paying fines last year, 27% of them were female. I can understand people not being happy with people being jailed for not paying fines, but don't see why women should be treated less harshly for this (all other things being equal).

iptba · 20-10-2016 03:39AM

(3 minutes 42 seconds)

Where political correctness might lead to in the future, I suppose one could say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM-HJT8_esM

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 25-10-2016 05:29PM

Is anyone talking about hosting a screening of The Red Pill Movie in Dublin? Maybe a kickstarter to fund it or something. This documentary is a massive step for mens rights

silverharp · 25-10-2016 05:51PM

Jay Rich Waltz wrote: »

Is anyone talking about hosting a screening of The Red Pill Movie in Dublin? Maybe a kickstarter to fund it or something. This documentary is a massive step for mens rights

feminists got it banned at an Australian cinema

http://www.antifeminismaustralia.com/news/red-pill-canned-due-feminist-petition/

the lady that made the film was on ht Rublin report , sounds interesting. she was a middle of the road feminist by the end by the end she dropped the label and considers it a religion

https://www.youtube.com/user/RubinReport/videos

Wibbs · 25-10-2016 06:43PM

TBH my teeth itch when I read anything attached to the term "The Red Pill" and would tend to either think "ah here, feminism has gone full retard, no need to ape that" or at best I'm gonna come in with my Bullshít Detector set at very sensitive. Too often the manosphere stuff is American in background, so reflects that cultures growing polarity and indeed extremism, just like their daft college feminism. For me they're as bad as each other. I can see how the title might put off even middle of the roaders like me. Never mind that it immediately gives the Tumblr bloggettes with purple hair and diets based on fundamentals of cake something to rail against before a single frame has rolled.

iptba · 25-10-2016 07:03PM

Although it's called "The Red Pill", my impression is it doesn't focus on that community.

Here's an extended preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7n_XA40V8

midnight city · 25-10-2016 10:08PM

Its important that films like this are made and seen. So many women out there are only fed feminist view points. They are genuinely in the dark about issues men face. A few eyes need to be opened.

Seeking to have it banned, what are these feminists afraid of?

Wibbs · 25-10-2016 10:54PM

I'd like to see the whole thing going by that TBH. It's certainly worthy of a documentary that's for sure. And I'd be surprised if the usual mainstream media outlets would touch it with a bargepole in the development stage. Can you imagine pitching it to the BBC, or RTE? Never gonna get off the first draft treatment stage.

Though the Paul Elam guy being interviewed is a fcuking tool IMO. The direct equivalent of any number of hysterical feminist noticeboxes that populate the media and vocal third wave feminism. I would interview him or his ilk, so that I could show the extreme and more, ask hard WTF questions of some of his witterings. Actually, I'd be interested to see if she did.

Yer wan interviewed that reckoned it's more of a "patriarchy" now than it ever was is clearly a dribbling fcuking moron mind you. And of course the usual cross-eyed nonsense of looking at elite groups in society as somehow representative of average Sean O'Citizen is in full flow. The same Sean O'Citizen whose most viewed vista these days is his PC's desktop background and the placcy cubicle that surrounds him, as he spends away his allotted hours on providing for him and his to keep them feeding the machine. Siobhan O'Citizen may have a similar vista but she's more and more likely to be in that cubicle in the first place, on the back of a better education(and yep better pay before she has kids). Even as wage slaves, meat cogs in the corporate machine, men are under more pressure and elsewhere are overwhelmingly more likely to be injured or die making a crust.

The American and Canadian bias to it would concern me too. As I say too often the manosphere stuff is American in background, so reflects that cultures growing polarity and extremism. I mean Canada has gone full college bloggist on a few levels and America is in a lather over two presidential wannabes, either of whom is a toxic puff piece of borderline humanity. Trump is an orange buffoon caricature of christ knows what(even he doesn't know anymore) and Clinton has more dodgy flip-flops than a Spanish beach shop(and her "smile" reminds me of a sharks just before it rolls its eyelids before a bite). They're a partisan pair of sad spectres of how too many in that nation find themselves supporting or caught between. Do we really need to disseminate more of that beyond those shores?

silverharp · 25-10-2016 11:49PM

MRA is more like a hashtag, you could call this thread the "MRA" thread . Unlike feminism it doesnt have an ideology behind it and if you want to discuss men's issues it has to coalesce around something and certain individuals that have an audience. When you see the visceral reaction by feminists in Canada towards them its worth supporting them from a free speech perspective if nothing else.

mzungu · 26-10-2016 12:08AM

iptba wrote: »

Although it's called "The Red Pill", my impression is it doesn't focus on that community.

AFAIK the MRA is a subgroup of the "Red Pill" community. From looking at the documentary trailer and looking at the link above, it seems the interviewees (mostly) come from the "Red Pill" forums on Reddit.

Wibbs wrote: »

Though the Paul Elam guy being interviewed is a fcuking tool IMO. The direct equivalent of any number of hysterical feminist noticeboxes that populate the media and vocal third wave feminism. I would interview him or his ilk, so that I could show the extreme and more, ask hard WTF questions of some of his witterings. Actually, I'd be interested to see if she did.

According to this review, the tough questions were left out: http://www.villagevoice.com/film/warning-you-cant-unsee-the-red-pill-the-documentary-about-a-filmmaker-who-learns-to-love-mras-9172459
I would be suspicious of anything that would try portray him (Elam) in a good light. Especially with a lot of the crapola he has come out with, it would make me question the objectivity of the film.

iptba · 26-10-2016 01:29AM

mzungu wrote: »

AFAIK the MRA is a subgroup of the "Red Pill" community.

My impression is that "red pill" focuses on relationships (no, I'm not thinking of pick up artists specifically), while men's rights is much broader than that covering all sorts of issues like how boys are treated, fathers' rights, how men are portrayed in the media, discrimination against men, misandry, circumcision, etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights gives links to various other forums but not the Red Pill one from the list I am looking at.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 26-10-2016 08:56AM

silverharp wrote: »

MRA is more like a hashtag, you could call this thread the "MRA" thread . Unlike feminism it doesnt have an ideology behind it and if you want to discuss men's issues it has to coalesce around something and certain individuals that have an audience. When you see the visceral reaction by feminists in Canada towards them its worth supporting them from a free speech perspective if nothing else.

Exactly feminists would describe this thread as a misogynist hate thread, they just don't want men to speak about issues,look how the got Rooshes meetups banned last year,now they are attacking the only documentary ever made about men's rights,even though it was made by a feminist

Wibbs · 26-10-2016 09:21AM

mzungu wrote: »

According to this review, the tough questions were left out: http://www.villagevoice.com/film/warning-you-cant-unsee-the-red-pill-the-documentary-about-a-filmmaker-who-learns-to-love-mras-9172459
I would be suspicious of anything that would try portray him (Elam) in a good light. Especially with a lot of the crapola he has come out with, it would make me question the objectivity of the film.

Ditto regarding Elam. Though a documentary on this subject would make me very wary of "reviews". Again with the increasing polarisation going on, you're either going to get a feminist/"liberal" nope it's crap, or an MRA/redpill/"right wing" it's brilliant. EG the Village Voice is far more likely to tow the college Right On party line than not.

iptba wrote: »

My impression is that "red pill" focuses on relationships (no, I'm not thinking of pick up artists specifically), while men's rights is much broader than that covering all sorts of issues like how boys are treated, fathers' rights, how men are portrayed in the media, discrimination against men, misandry, circumcision, etc.

That was my general understanding of it myself.

It has become more shifting of late mind you as red pill PUA "guru" types seeing that their almost pathologically repetitive spiel regarding pick up is wearing threadbare as a revenue stream are more and more drifting towards MRA politics(and right wing politics with it). QV The Return of Kings yahoos and Roosh. The latter once a PUA/"diarist" who spotted the opening of mixing PUA stuff with travelogues for the easy of thinking who want to vicariously live through his narratives*.

That made him a few quid, but he was running outa places to "Bang". Cue moving into the manosphere political stuff and going full Trump with it. It was a bigger selling point to set himself up as a hero of the New Man with a mishmash of PUA, redpill and conservatism. That it finds such a ready audience is concerning. For the audience if nothing else. He has done OK outa that too, often surfing a wave of hysterical outrage from feminists that moronically disseminate his and his co authors guff far beyond what he would be directly capable of themselves. Again look at some of his OTT pronouncements and that of Return of Kings. The frothing at the mouth by commentators is funny and depressing to watch. Trolling as an online business plan.

Jay Rich Waltz wrote: »

Exactly feminists would describe this thread as a misogynist hate thread, they just don't want men to speak about issues,look how the got Rooshes meetups banned last year,now they are attacking the only documentary ever made about men's rights,even though it was made by a feminist

Whatever about the documentary, I'd personally not put it in the same universe as the Roosh gobshíte. He's a really clumsy troll and christ his speaking voice would put one in a coma. As I said, that so many seem to see him as some guru/hero is fcuking worrying to me. His forum is unreal on the hero(no homo:rolleyes:) worship and has more banned accounts than Boards has closed accounts. BOth send a bad impression, but even a quick skim of yer man's forums shows even high post count and high repped members getting banned for going even slightly off message. And he and his have the irony bypass and sheer hard neck to claim the "left" and feminists only want echo chambers? They're the exact mirror of any Jezebel style feminist forum. If you or your ideas can't take robust criticism then you and your ideas don't stand up.

*again more appealing to young American men, the majority of whom's furthest trip outside the US has been either in uniform, or spring break in Mexico. And his stuff is mostly imagination anyway, with even other PUA types noting pretty much zero evidence for any of his sexploits beyond actually going to a country for a week or three.

orubiru · 26-10-2016 10:41AM

iptba wrote: »

Although it's called "The Red Pill", my impression is it doesn't focus on that community.

Here's an extended preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7n_XA40V8

It's actually kind of worrying that people would seek to have this banned.

If feminist groups want to have this banned then I'd seriously question their motivations for banning it. What are they afraid of?

Unless there is something hidden in the documentary that we are unaware of, it looks like a pretty reasonable (maybe even factual) look at the issues.

If I am being honest, my attitude towards "MRAs" would not be totally positive but a reaction like this makes me think that maybe I should listen to them and be a bit more open minded.

I can decide for myself if I agree with them or not.

midnight city · 26-10-2016 10:44AM

Its a mystery to me why feminists don't want any talk of men's issues. Surely they can see there are issues. It seems they only every want female issues highlighted and until every single one of them is solved then men shouldn't get a word in about their problems. Its incredibly selfish and bullying.

I'm equally mystified at the people who capitulate to their bullying demands. All they need is a petition and some manager like of that cinema in Melbourne give in.

silverharp · 26-10-2016 10:50AM

midnight city wrote: »

Its a mystery to me why feminists don't want any talk of men's issues. Surely they can see there are issues. It seems they only every want female issues highlighted and until every single one of them is solved then men shouldn't get a word in about their problems. Its incredibly selfish and bullying.

I'm equally mystified at the people who capitulate to their bullying demands. All they need is a petition and some manager like of that cinema in Melbourne give in.

I think the best way to sum it up is to say feminists only represent feminists , they obviously hate conservative women and they think other non feminist women are suffering from internalised misogyny. I class them as a self help group for neurotics

sharper · 26-10-2016 11:31AM

mzungu wrote: »

AFAIK the MRA is a subgroup of the "Red Pill" community.

Opponents of MRAs/Red Pill tend to use the terms interchangeably but the groups themselves have a strong dislike of each other. You can broadly categorise male activism into three groups

-MRAs. Society has various norms that impact men negatively. Society needs to change in order to address those problems in the same way that it does for issues that impact men.

-Red Pill: Society has various norms for men that can be exploited to their benefit so let's do it. As long as you lack empathy or consideration for others it works.

-MGOTW: Society has various norms that impact men negatively but the idea that men need to adapt to serve society instead of the opposite is so ingrained it's hopeless. Men are better to learn to be happy without anything that society offers.

If you consider that in relation to feminism there are many variants (sex positive, sex negative, trans exclusionary, radical, intersectional) but it's never considered acceptable to paint the views of one with the other but when it comes to men it's considered perfectly ok to dismiss those that want equal rights to their children because some other men have decided to become pick up artists.

LostinBlanch · 26-10-2016 11:52AM

orubiru wrote: »

It's actually kind of worrying that people would seek to have this banned.

If feminist groups want to have this banned then I'd seriously question their motivations for banning it. What are they afraid of?

Unless there is something hidden in the documentary that we are unaware of, it looks like a pretty reasonable (maybe even factual) look at the issues.

Well in certain strands of Feminism equality is a zero sum game i.e. more mens rights equals less womens rights, instead of true equality and more rights for all. So for them it makes sense to host a big push to stop any mainstream discussion of male issues - unless it's to discuss how to fix "toxic" masculinity. :rolleyes:

I didn't know that the Southern Poverty Law describes Men's Rights Groups as hate groups. But if you look at it logically they obviously want to close down any discussion about inequality that men may suffer. One male feminist author in that preview pushed the line that they are the gender equivalent of White Aryan Nationalists. So logically you can obviously ignore what they say and classify it as hate speech. Shutting down legitimate discussion by labelling it hate speech is never going to work well.

Just in case you think this is a little paranoid, The 2013 European Framework National Statute For The Promotion of Tolerance PDF Link attempted to do just this especially with it's definition of Group Libel.

“Group libel” means: defamatory comments made in public and aimed against a group as defined in paragraph (a) – or members thereof – with a view to inciting to violence, slandering the group, holding it to ridicule or subjecting it to false charges.

Everybody wants more tolerance don't they? I know I do but like a lot of things it's the Orwellian use of language that gets to me. Tolerance means not criticising any aspects of feminism as outlined in section 2e of the Framework specifically includes anti feminist thought.

The Purpose of the statute is to . . . e) Take concrete action to combat intolerance, in particular with a view to eliminating racism, colour bias, ethnic discrimination, religious intolerance, totalitarian ideologies, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-feminism and homophobia.

So discussions like this thread could easily be classed as group libel and would according to the authors be hate speech. Thanksfully it didn't go through that time, but the push is there. The Council of Europe also gets in on this with it's 2016 Combating Sexist Hate Speech.

The Council of Europe’s Gender Equality Strategy 2014-2017 explicitly includes tackling sexism as a form of hate speech under its strategic objective 1 – combating gender stereotypes and sexism

Again note sexism and hate speech are linked, so saying anything that feminists declare as sexist is by their definition hate speech.

TL;DR By the above definitions this thread contains hate speech. Please log off now and report for re-education.

EDIT: Added link for Council of Europe Document http://www.slideshare.net/ssuser47a019/combating-sexist-hate-speech-2016

silverharp · 26-10-2016 01:45PM

neutral headline by Vice :pac:

https://twitter.com/Cassie_Jaye/status/791108989245206529

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 26-10-2016 02:33PM

Do you think we could get enough people to make a hosting viable?

http://theredpillmovie.com/see-the-film/host-a-screening/

At the very least it would get some coverage in the Irish press on men's rights and open up some discussion.

Screening Package – $500

Each package includes a DVD licensed for your screening and a community discussion guide to encourage dialogue following the film’s screening.

The 'ACADEMIC RENTAL – $100' option is great if anyone can screen on campus

Some more info on hosting it
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film/posts/1684664

midnight city · 26-10-2016 03:28PM

Jay Rich Waltz wrote: »

Do you think we could get enough people to make a hosting viable?

http://theredpillmovie.com/see-the-film/host-a-screening/

At the very least it would get some coverage in the Irish press on men's rights and open up some discussion.

Screening Package – $500

Each package includes a DVD licensed for your screening and a community discussion guide to encourage dialogue following the film’s screening.

The 'ACADEMIC RENTAL – $100' option is great if anyone can screen on campus

Some more info on hosting it
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film/posts/1684664

No mainstream media editors in Ireland would allow an objective article or discussion on it. Maybe the journal.ie or the like would do a hatchet job on it trying to discredit it. That's where we are at in Ireland at the min anyway.

silverharp · 26-10-2016 03:31PM

im sure the trinity or ucd feminist society would show this, after all they are interested in men's issues :pac:

iptba · 26-10-2016 04:11PM

Jay Rich Waltz wrote: »

Do you think we could get enough people to make a hosting viable?

http://theredpillmovie.com/see-the-film/host-a-screening/

At the very least it would get some coverage in the Irish press on men's rights and open up some discussion.

Screening Package – $500

Each package includes a DVD licensed for your screening and a community discussion guide to encourage dialogue following the film’s screening.

The 'ACADEMIC RENTAL – $100' option is great if anyone can screen on campus

Some more info on hosting it
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cassiejaye/the-red-pill-a-documentary-film/posts/1684664

If somebody set up a Kickstarter event, I'd be willing to highlight it around in a few places and make a (small) donation

orubiru · 26-10-2016 09:13PM

midnight city wrote: »

Its incredibly selfish and bullying.

This could basically be the motto of Feminism at this point.

Let's see if I got this right...

Some crackpots online complain about Mad Max and Star Wars because they had female leads and Feminists are going crazy over "40 year old men living in their mothers basement". This is not OK.

If you complain about or don't want to watch the new Ghostbusters then you are some kind of 40 year old misogynist living in his mothers basement. How dare you? This is not OK.

A woman creates a documentary and people write articles spreading misinformation about it. Some other people manage to successfully have the movie banned. Who are these people? 40 year old men living in mommy's basement? Surely this is not OK?

Nah. It was Feminists who complained about this movie. It was Feminists who shut it down. It's all OK when Feminists are doing it.

It's 2016. You can't be complaining about movies created by women. You can't criticise or petition content created by women. You can't talk over women. You must allow women to express their opinions. Unless you're a Feminist. Then it's OK. Feminists are allowed to shut women up. So they do.

Disgusting hypocritical people.

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