2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Overheal · 25-10-2016 08:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It will be sad when Hillary wins and proves she is still as incompetent as when she was Secretary of State.

This line is tired and rarely substantiated. "But Benghazi" seems to be the mating call, to which the courting response is usually, "But Bin Laden."

Permabear · 25-10-2016 09:13PM

This post has been deleted.

Overheal · 25-10-2016 09:58PM

Colin Powell: "Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris."

Colin Powell: 'I will vote for HRC.'

http://www.mediaite.com/online/colin-powell-will-vote-for-hillary-clinton/

K-9 · 25-10-2016 10:29PM

Overheal wrote: »

Colin Powell: "Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris."

Colin Powell: 'I will vote for HRC.'

http://www.mediaite.com/online/colin-powell-will-vote-for-hillary-clinton/

Mad as that is, it reflects more on Trump than Hilary.

I can see the logic of anybody but Trump and that's the message the Dems were giving to Sanders supporters. It suits the Dems down to the ground because it counters the apathy that is out there about both candidates and the real danger that many wouldn't vote, thus opening a path for Trump to get in.

The Libertarian and Green vote doesn't seem to be damaging Clinton anymore, that was a worry when the polls were tighter.

Black Swan · 25-10-2016 11:39PM

I have a close friend who is manning the phones calling from California to Nevada to help swing that state towards Hillary Clinton. She is a member of a university student group that favours Elizabeth Warren (who now supports Clinton) and just renamed their group "Nasty Women" with named T-shirts to match. They have a bank of phones with many young women volunteers calling a list of Nevada voters hour after hour. This is a tiny part of the ground game that Trump apparently lacks to get out the vote. Obama used a similar ground game phoning tactic in 2008 between California and Nevada.

Elizabeth Warren: "Nasty women are tough. Nasty women are smart. And nasty women vote. We nasty women are going to march our nasty feet to cast our nasty votes to get you out of our lives forever [Donald Trump]."

Their "Nasty Women" name came from the 3rd presidential debate, where Donald Trump once again reverted to his childish playground name-calling behavior and called Hillary Clinton a "Nasty woman."

Overheal · 25-10-2016 11:40PM

I overheard a conversation in the office about bad hombres today as well

Permabear · 26-10-2016 12:00AM

This post has been deleted.

alastair · 26-10-2016 12:08AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I can quite happily dismiss some of those 'questions', on the basis that they've been answered already, or that there's no substance to them.

Hillary's role in discrediting the claims of sexual assault levelled against Bill is perfectly understandable, if you believe he's innocent of such acts. It's worth pointing out, once again, that he is innocent until proven guilty, and some of the claims are far from credible. Some people seem to expect that Hillary would believe the claims of sexual assault, simply because the man is a philanderer.

A flip-flopper? Sure. Questions arising from that? Not too sure what they might be. She's certainly got a track record of being more of a politician than an ideologue. Don't think anyone expects much different from her.

Cosy with Wall Street? Sure. To the point of it being a problem? Not clear at all.

Pay-for-play at State Dept? Never seen any convincing evidence of this. Unsubstantiated.

Benghazi? Complete political scapegoat for events that she really had little to do with.

Evasive under depositions? Yes. The email and Benghazi Congressional affairs are essentially a waste of time, energy, and money, for no good reason beyond trying to get Hillary politically. Do I want her to play along with these charades? Not particularly.

In general there's more good than bad with her. She isn't anything to get excited about, but most of the negative narratives about her are just hot air issues and the fact that she's only too happy to spin and distort like the cynical politician she is.

Amerika · 26-10-2016 12:31AM

Black Swan wrote: »

I have a close friend who is manning the phones calling from California to Nevada to help swing that state towards Hillary Clinton. She is a member of a university student group that favours Elizabeth Warren (who now supports Clinton) and just renamed their group "Nasty Women" with named T-shirts to match. They have a bank of phones with many young women volunteers calling a list of Nevada voters hour after hour. This is a tiny part of the ground game that Trump apparently lacks to get out the vote. Obama used a similar ground game phoning tactic in 2008 between California and Nevada.

Elizabeth Warren: "Nasty women are tough. Nasty women are smart. And nasty women vote. We nasty women are going to march our nasty feet to cast our nasty votes to get you out of our lives forever [Donald Trump]."

Their "Nasty Women" name came from the 3rd presidential debate, where Donald Trump once again reverted to his childish playground name-calling behavior and called Hillary Clinton a "Nasty woman."

Since they're working for Hillary is she paying the ladies less then men who do the same job, which she has a tendency to do?

RobertKK · 26-10-2016 02:56AM

Overheal wrote: »

Colin Powell: "Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris."

Colin Powell: 'I will vote for HRC.'

http://www.mediaite.com/online/colin-powell-will-vote-for-hillary-clinton/

That is like a WMD in Iraq part 2 from Colin Powell.

Zubeneschamali · 26-10-2016 06:52AM

The US uses a voting system that guarantees a two party system, whether you like it or not.

The time to argue that HRC is not the ideal Democratic candidate is during the Primaries, and may people did, and Bernie pushed her closer than expected and moved the Party platform left. He could get to be Chair of the Senate Budget Committee as a result.

Once it is HRC vs Any Republican, anyone to the left of Marie Le Pen has to vote for Clinton, as anyone the Republicans nominate will by to her right.

(The exception is when you think you are in a non-swing state, and can protest vote a real left wing candidate and hope you think correctly).

TheDoctor · 26-10-2016 09:17AM

Iowa swings back red, Ohio heading red.

I'd nearly give those two states to Trump at this stage.

Seems to have pulled some momentum from somewhere.

Igotadose · 26-10-2016 09:25AM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Iowa swings back red, Ohio heading red.

I'd nearly give those two states to Trump at this stage.

Seems to have pulled some momentum from somewhere.

Details? Ohio showing 9% higher chance for HRC, IA +1% higher (fivethirtyeight.com poll summary). What data are you using? How much swing is it from your earlier measure?

Billy86 · 26-10-2016 09:27AM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Iowa swings back red, Ohio heading red.

I'd nearly give those two states to Trump at this stage.

Seems to have pulled some momentum from somewhere.

Depends where you're looking, on 538 both are blue while on rcp he has a reasonably strong 'toss up' lead in Iowa (which should never have even been up for grabs) and a much slimmer lead in Ohio. Interestingly though, rcp have Clinton as holding 272 votes already so in their model it wouldn't even make much difference.

Black Swan · 26-10-2016 10:08AM

Amerika wrote: »

Since they're working for Hillary is she paying the ladies less then men who do the same job, which she has a tendency to do?

They are highly motivated university student women volunteers, who, if they are like my close friend, would not take a dime payment. Donald Trump obviously does not understand women voters, because he has continued to say things during this campaign that drives the vast majority to dislike him greatly, motivating many like my friend and her group to work like crazy to defeat him 8 November 2016. They truly believe that they will help swing Nevada for Clinton by election day. You cannot buy this level of commitment from these highly educated and motivated women, and to attempt to do so would be an insult.

Methinks that when the post-election analyses have been concluded, most will suggest that women were the major factor in the defeat of Donald Trump. Given that there were approximately 10 million more registered women voters than men in presidential election 2012, Donald Trump truly has something to worry about, especially when he continues to insult women with his childish playground "Nasty woman" name calling. If he thinks that was a small thing, he REALLY does not understand women at all.

26-10-2016 10:13AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Are you arguing that it's a bad thing that government transfers fell?

Zubeneschamali · 26-10-2016 10:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you arguing that it's a bad thing that government transfers fell?

No, he's telling left wing voters that Clinton is too right wing for them, which is why many left wing voters supported Bernie.

But Bernie didn't win the nomination, so anyone sane will row in behind Clinton to humiliate Trump.

aloyisious · 26-10-2016 11:18AM

I was listening to two elderly US citizens, a married couple, on RTE being asked about the Trump banner outside their home and who they were going to vote for. Trump was the answer, nothing strange due to the banner. It was what the woman said that caught me. She said she was a christian and that Hillary should not be in politics as she's a woman, she should be at home where a housewife should be. They couple were living in a state liable to bad winters so they were getting their mobile home ready to travel to Florida for the winter.

Trent Houseboat · 26-10-2016 11:27AM

aloyisious wrote:

I was listening to two elderly US citizens, a married couple, on RTE being asked about the Trump banner outside their home and who they were going to vote for. Trump was the answer, nothing strange due to the banner. It was what the woman said that caught me. She said she was a christian and that Hillary should not be in politics as she's a woman, she should be at home where a housewife should be. They couple were living in a state liable to bad winters so they were getting their mobile home ready to travel to Florida for the winter.

Yeah, that's part of Christianity.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 wrote:

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Not sure what her book says about pussy grabbing.

Billy86 · 26-10-2016 11:39AM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Yeah, that's part of Christianity.

Not sure what her book says about pussy grabbing.

Its full by that for their obsession with the Muslimistanians, the USA is possibly the world capital of hard line, dangerous Christian fundamentalism. But self awareness never was a strong point with that particular demographic, to be fair.

rossie1977 · 26-10-2016 12:04PM

Big debate/fight last night between Newt Gingrich and Megyn Kelly. The hardcore right have already started boycott Kelly file trends on twitter

What a bizarre election

TheDoctor · 26-10-2016 12:21PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

Big debate/fight last night between Newt Gingrich and Megyn Kelly. The hardcore right have already started boycott Kelly file trends on twitter

What a bizarre election

Saw it on youtube this morning.

Before this election I thought Kelly was further right but seems to be fairly central now.

Perhaps the drama she had with Trump at the start or Ailes departure may have shifted her leftwards.

aloyisious · 26-10-2016 12:30PM

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

Yeah, that's part of Christianity.

Not sure what her book says about pussy grabbing.

Was thinking it might be a variation of the "grab them by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow" quote.

Billy86 · 26-10-2016 12:37PM

TheDoctor wrote: »

Saw it on youtube this morning.

Before this election I thought Kelly was further right but seems to be fairly central now.

Perhaps the drama she had with Trump at the start or Ailes departure may have shifted her leftwards.

No, she was just happy to attack everyone until it came too close to home. Kind of classic case of...

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

She should be very grateful that her and Fox's attacks have generally bee unsuccessful over the last 8 years, because those she has been a part of attacks on for quite a long time however, do seem to be somewhat inclined to speak for her.

Permabear · 26-10-2016 04:19PM

This post has been deleted.

K-9 · 26-10-2016 04:50PM

aloyisious wrote: »

I was listening to two elderly US citizens, a married couple, on RTE being asked about the Trump banner outside their home and who they were going to vote for. Trump was the answer, nothing strange due to the banner. It was what the woman said that caught me. She said she was a christian and that Hillary should not be in politics as she's a woman, she should be at home where a housewife should be. They couple were living in a state liable to bad winters so they were getting their mobile home ready to travel to Florida for the winter.

That was quite common thinking during Bill's Presidency, Hillary attracted a lot of dislike and hatred because she wasn't ashamed of her career and being a working mother.

Obviously not being a very likable person didn't help but that played a big part in the campaign against her.

Jack1985 · 26-10-2016 05:01PM

Frightening to watch this today..

13 more days of bat sh*t crazy Giuliani.

AbusesToilets · 26-10-2016 05:18PM

alastair wrote: »

I can quite happily dismiss some of those 'questions', on the basis that they've been answered already, or that there's no substance to them.

Hillary's role in discrediting the claims of sexual assault levelled against Bill is perfectly understandable, if you believe he's innocent of such acts. It's worth pointing out, once again, that he is innocent until proven guilty, and some of the claims are far from credible. Some people seem to expect that Hillary would believe the claims of sexual assault, simply because the man is a philanderer.

A flip-flopper? Sure. Questions arising from that? Not too sure what they might be. She's certainly got a track record of being more of a politician than an ideologue. Don't think anyone expects much different from her.

Cosy with Wall Street? Sure. To the point of it being a problem? Not clear at all.

Pay-for-play at State Dept? Never seen any convincing evidence of this. Unsubstantiated.

Benghazi? Complete political scapegoat for events that she really had little to do with.

Evasive under depositions? Yes. The email and Benghazi Congressional affairs are essentially a waste of time, energy, and money, for no good reason beyond trying to get Hillary politically. Do I want her to play along with these charades? Not particularly.

In general there's more good than bad with her. She isn't anything to get excited about, but most of the negative narratives about her are just hot air issues and the fact that she's only too happy to spin and distort like the cynical politician she is.

This quick hand waving away of Clinton's misdeeds is exactly the attitude that many, myself included, find infuriating. You're casually dismissing actions that are demonstrably illegal, re: emails, or demonstrate poor judgement and lack of political nous, i.e. Libya involvement, previous legislative efforts etc.

It's a consistent feature of her career, where she has demonstrated a disregard for established rules, exercised poor judgment in her actions and responded to exposure of said actions with dishonesty and evasion.

KingBrian2 · 26-10-2016 05:23PM

Looks like an act of vandalism against Trump's Walk of Fame Star.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/10/donald-trump-walk-of-fame-star-smashed

This should be condemned as anyone would expect the same if it was done against Clinton.

Jack1985 · 26-10-2016 05:25PM

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Looks like an act of vandalism against Trump's Walk of Fame Star.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/10/donald-trump-walk-of-fame-star-smashed

This should be condemned as anyone would expect the same if it was done against Clinton.

That isn't the first time either, in a sold Democratic state.

2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

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