Gay Cake Controversy!

Hoping for a positive outcome for Ashers.

EDIT. Appeal lost. Disappointing.

i wonder would the same courts force a Muslim bakery to bake something with a message their religion didn't believe in.

Gael23 wrote: »

Is that the end of the matter or are we going to the European courts?

Depends on Ashers now. If they want to appeal it could go further.

I think they would have to goto the UK supreme court first and then to the European Court of Human Rights. Going down that route could take years. Maybe 5 or 10.

Beware those rejoicing. One day it may be your most closely held beliefs that will be deemed unacceptable.

lazygal wrote: »

Why don't you find a Muslim bakery and see what happens?

It was a rhetorical question. I'm fully aware they would not.

A Little Pony wrote: »

But they would not and you know it. They should appeal the decision again. I have no issue with Gay marriage personally but one wonders at what line do you stop regarding doing things you don't agree with.

That just makes them both wrong.

DeVore wrote: »

That just makes them both wrong.

Look, every company EVERY SINGLE COMPANY gets tax breaks. Its written into the tax code. Boards gets them!

We are allowed (like every company ever) to deduct our costs from our income before paying tax on that income.

People, on the other hand. Not so much. You cant, for example, claim the family car costs as part of the cost of "being a family".


So, every company gets tax breaks because we like businesses, they are GOOD for society, so society SHOULD support them.
But we rule that since we are giving them juicy tax breaks from the tax-payers, they have to service all tax payers. Otherwise we would end up effectively subsidising niche, exclusive companies and that's NOT good for society and so society SHOULDNT support it.

This is the basis of it for me, you take the tax breaks and get a public license to be a company, then you service all customers with legal requests. If you don't , then keep it as a hobby, DONT get the tax breaks and bake "I hate de fags" on your cakes all day long.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Why? I don't agree with the stance Asher's took but if they apply it across the board, could it be called discrimination. If a straight man ordered the gay marriage cake, would they have agreed to make it? I suspect not so in that case, can we really say that they were discriminating against the person ordering the cake based on sexuality? If I ask for a cake that says I heart anal beads and the person making the cake finds it offends their sensibilities, should they be forced to make it just because I want it?

The judges came to the conclusion that the issue of gay marriage is something synonymous with the LGBT community, so that refusal to make the cake with the slogan requested would constitute discrimination, regardless of the orientation of the person ordering the cake. To quote from the summary judgement:

We accept that it was the use of the word “Gay” in the context of the message which prevented the order from being fulfilled. The reason that the order was cancelled was that the appellants would not provide a cake with a message supporting a right to marry for those of a particular sexual orientation. This was a case of association with the gay and bisexual community and the protected personal characteristic was the sexual orientation of that community. Accordingly this was direct discrimination.

In addition, Northern Ireland's equality laws also protect people on the basis of their political opinion. So even if the refusal wasn't considered discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, it would still be discrimination under the political opinion grounds.

A Little Pony wrote: »

But they would not and you know it. They should appeal the decision again. I have no issue with Gay marriage personally but one wonders at what line do you stop regarding doing things you don't agree with.

What grounds do you think they have to appeal it further?

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm atheist but respect other peoples beliefs. Ashers didn't want to bake a cake which they felt was contrary to theirs. To me that's acceptable.

The law says it's not.

It appears a fairly straight forward case. The only excuse the bigots had was that 'it was against their beliefs'.

Believing in an imaginary god does not trump human rights, human decency and it does not give you the right to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation. That applies to all religions.

If people have an issue with that, I suggest they build a time machine and travel back in time to when people could discriminate against other people based on what an imaginary person in the sky told them. Those days aren't coming back.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Gay marriage is not a human right. Right to life is a human right.

The right to freedom from discrimination is a human right.

And yes that also applies to religious beliefs and it doesnt apply to businesses because businesses cant have a religious belief.

A Little Pony wrote: »

Gay marriage is not a human right. Right to life is a human right.

I think you'll need to get building that time machine fairly quickly. On the plus side, people on here are allowed to express their outdated beliefs against same sex marriage, gay people and abortion. So at least there's that, things could be worse for you.