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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

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    #332
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Which would also require a major upgrade of the N25 main line and the Cobh junction.

    One of the best things about the M28 is the fact that the junction to connect it to the N40 is already built bar needing a few slight improvements.

    Imagine the cost of a suspension or cable stay bridge. Would also need to be quite elevated to allow shipping underneath.


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    #333
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Any alternative route would cost more and be less effective. We've been waiting for the N28 dualling for so long and it's even more important now with the Port relocation and all the new jobs in Ringaskiddy.

    Hopefully those NIMBYs will be shot down quickly.


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    #334
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    lucernarian wrote: »
    Before we break out the pitchforks, is there anything resembling a feasible alternative route proposed (in particular from the critics in the article)?

    Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I doubt it personally but I wanted to see if there was.

    We had someone claim to have an alternative on here, but when pressured the claim was slowly retracted to nothing, nothing at all. Despite them pleading for a petition with "alternative" in the title to be signed!


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    #335
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    L1011 wrote: »
    We had someone claim to have an alternative on here, but when pressured the claim was slowly retracted to nothing, nothing at all. Despite them pleading for a petition with "alternative" in the title to be signed!
    Aye, I remember that. A fairly ham-fisted effort at discussing whatever problems it might have. If house price fears are the *only* fear, then even that fear is little more than superstition.


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    #336
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,547 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Got an email from TII stating that this steering group has nothing to do with it and is in no way an official body.

    It's clear what this group is trying to do.


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    #337
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They're not a steering group, they're a bunch of middle-aged busybodies who are meddling in the scheme design and ballsing it up.


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    #338
    Nuf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Nuf


    I came across this discussion today.
    It's a little unfortunate that all those not happy with the M28 are being portrayed as cranks. I am as interested as anyone in proper infrastructure and planned economic development but find it hard to reconcile this with the present plan.
    I have lived about 30m or so from the existing N28 for over 20yrs. The noise and vibration start about 6.30am and increase as the day wears on. Opening a window during the day floods the room with uncomfortable noise, so this is best avoided. According to Cork Co Co noise maps, our area already exceeds the WHO recommendations and the TII's own noise targets during the day and night. My children have grown up kicking ball with trucks passing almost overhead only metres away. I have never seen anyone monitoring noise or pollution in my area in the thirty years I am here.
    So NO, I am not happy with the proposed route. The prospect of hundreds more HGVs trundling past my house day and night is not nice. An Bord Pleanala refused permission for the port move in 2008 and as far as I'm concerned, none of the reasons for this refusal have changed. The TII's mission statement is to provide high quality transport infrastructure and services, delivering a better quality of life and supporting economic growth. I have seen no evidence in this area that the TII cares about quality of life, shoehorning a motorway through a residential area where it clearly will not fit.

    I can assure the cynics that my concerns are not about house values, mine has already taken that hit thanks.

    marno 21 hopes those NIMBYs will be shot down quickly . . . . thank you for this but I don't think euthanasia is legal in this country just yet :) However, we do have a planning process and I believe people have a right to use it.


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    #339
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nuf wrote: »
    I can assure the cynics that my concerns are not about house values, mine has already taken that hit thanks.

    The only attempt at an argument we had on here before today boiled down to solely house prices.

    Have you got an alternative suggestion?

    If you don't, being brutally honest nobody on here is going to have the time of day for you. The road pre-existed your house. Ports can grow (or wither), you should have know that on buying.


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    #340
    Nuf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Nuf


    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    Also, I'm not looking for sympathy, just explaining that there is another side to the debate.

    I'm not necessarily advocating the alternative route suggested via the airport but I do have enough experience of the TII to have no confidence in them to properly protect or shield the houses in my area from the negative effects of the proposed new motorway.

    The infrastructure experts here are talking nobly at a macro level. I would ask them to come down to ground level and live in my shoes for a few days . . . .


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    #341
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Nuf wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    Also, I'm not looking for sympathy, just explaining that there is another side to the debate.

    I'm not necessarily advocating the alternative route suggested via the airport but I do have enough experience of the TII to have no confidence in them to properly protect or shield the houses in my area from the negative effects of the proposed new motorway.

    The infrastructure experts here are talking nobly at a macro level. I would ask them to come down to ground level and live in my shoes for a few days . . . .
    Where along the route do you live, is it between the South Ring Rd and Carrs Hill or between Carrs Hill and Ringaskiddy?

    If the latter, the new route will be built further away from your house. The TII will also by law have to erect soundproof barriers between you and the road so you will hear very little. If you live along the section of the N28 that was built in 1995 between Carrs Hill and the N40 South Ring, then you will have the barriers AND you will have major traffic relief in your area by the upgrading of the substandard road network.

    This is pure NIMBYism. They're not going building the road through your back garden, if they were your house would have been CPOd. The existing N28 is unsafe and a massive drain on the economy of Cork.

    Also, it's your NIMBY-esqure plans being shot down. I'm not advocating assassination of the M28 Steering Group (yet).


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    #342
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,856 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    what has me baffled is where this new motorway, or upgrade of old road, should go if it doesnt essentially follow the current path.

    It could go to the Airport and you get onto the south ring at the Kinsale roundabout, but that road and junction is already chronically busy with 20,000 AADT, so adding another 25,000 to it just would not work. Also interesting to note there that the N28 has more traffic than the airport road, so its busier than a busy road, and you cant just dump that traffic randomly onto the south ring.

    It could be routed by the coast, but it would be mass demolition to get it to the existing junction. You might consider following the old rail line, but it lands beside mahon point, so you'd have to demolish the half of the retail park, and then start to worry on how to merge 25000 cars into the already busy mahon point junction.

    So, if the alternative routes are unfeasible, and the locals manage to get enough pressure that the current route isnt upgraded, then youre left with no changes and the locals still cant open their windows from 6.30 in the morning.

    If you got an upgrade with proper soundproofing then surely it'd be an improvement.
    For example, heres what residents in north Munich got with the upgrade of the A9 motorway to reduce noise polution. Surely that would be something to look for in cork ? (note the curved profile to focus the sound and send it back into the road)
    A9_00455.jpg


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    #343
    Baldilocks
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Baldilocks


    Nuf, your concerns are not unreasonable. You should have got some noise reduction barriers, but I suspect they didn't go up in the '90s when the road was built as they weren't a requirement then.
    The road is going to get busier regardless of the port, the pharma plants in Ringaskiddy are in expansion mode and new ones are being built. The port will only contribute a small percentage to the overall quantity of traffic. The reality of the situation is that an extra lane is being added, and so 3 lanes will become 4, 2 in each direction, and the bottle neck at the top of the hill will be removed (which should reduce the traffic jams that occasionally occur on the hill).
    Given the lack of cost effective alternative, surely it would be better to engage with the process and ensure that appropriate remediation measures are installed.

    Lastly, if you bought your house 20yrs ago, I very much doubt that it is worth less now, than it was when you bought it. You're still living in a desirable part of Cork, where houses rarely spend any great length of time on the market.


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    #344
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,102 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Question for those in the know: tunneling through Maryborough Hill/Carrs Hill, I realise would be extremely expensive, but would it be technically viable?


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    #345
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nuf wrote: »
    Thanks for your reply but I lived here peacefully BEFORE construction of the road. Don't worry though, I forgive your inaccuracy!

    The newest bit of the road was built 21 years ago. It was in planning for significantly longer than that.

    Are you there from before the planning was initiated?


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    #346
    Nuf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Nuf


    TII is legally obliged to put in barriers? Have you a link for this please? I know there are design targets but if there is legal effect to a certain maximum noise level then it's news to me.

    I've lived on the north side of the Rochestown Road for 30.3 yrs and was in a position to make a submission following the EIS on Mulcon Valley way back when. Does this answer the IYOFF point? (It's your own . . .)
    Seven lanes here are due to become eight and people are correct, we got no proper sound barriers last time out but did get plenty of excuses about the space available etc

    munchkin_utd Thanks for the pic. A barrier like that would be absolutely fantastic. The TII's own guidelines though first encourage good design as the best way to deal with potential noise problems by adopting a noise-sensitive horizontal and vertical alignment for new road projects - I believe that the road should have been moved eastwards towards the church to allow for an appropriate level of embankment and screening. I eagerly await the Environmental Impact study but somehow feel that it'll only contain proposals for panels of wooden fencing at best rather than a properly designed and effective barrier of an appropriate height and density such as the one you've shown.

    Sorry for being so localised here but when you are so adversely affected it's not always so easy to see bigger picture in black and white terms as clearly as some contributors here


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    #347
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You said "over 20 years". Over 30 is over 20 but saying over 20 suggests under 30. By some margin as many would say 'nearly 30' from 25+


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    #348
    Nuf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Nuf


    I have lived in my house for over 30yrs because that's how long I've lived here. I've lived over 20yrs beside the road because that's how long the road has been there!
    So to summarise:
    House > 30 yrs old
    But Road > 20yrs old < 30 yrs old


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    #349
    gerogerigegege
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    jammed packed today. great turnout.
    https://www.facebook.com/M28-Steering-Group-175111606272101/?pnref=story


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    #350
    gerogerigegege
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    marno21 wrote: »
    Where along the route do you live, is it between the South Ring Rd and Carrs Hill or between Carrs Hill and Ringaskiddy?

    If the latter, the new route will be built further away from your house. The TII will also by law have to erect soundproof barriers between you and the road so you will hear very little. If you live along the section of the N28 that was built in 1995 between Carrs Hill and the N40 South Ring, then you will have the barriers AND you will have major traffic relief in your area by the upgrading of the substandard road network.

    This is pure NIMBYism. They're not going building the road through your back garden, if they were your house would have been CPOd. The existing N28 is unsafe and a massive drain on the economy of Cork.

    Also, it's your NIMBY-esqure plans being shot down. I'm not advocating assassination of the M28 Steering Group (yet).
    absolutely.
    I don't want a motorway beside my home or destroying local wooded area.
    neither do very many others.
    saying its NIMBY-ism is correct. not in my back yard !!!


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    #351
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    Right, this is enough.

    From now on, this thread is to be used for ONLY discussion related to the PROGRESSION of the M28 Cork - Ringaskiddy motorway scheme, by those users of the forum who all agree on it's crucialness to the development of the economy of Cork.

    All anti M28 discussion and it's related NIMBYism is to be kept to this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101429361#post101429361


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    #352
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Off topic posts deleted.

    Any posts not in the appropriate thread will be deleted and the users warned.


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    #353
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    For regular N28 sufferers, especially at this time of the year:

    The final scheme is to be displayed before the end of the year, and the publishing of the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and Motorway Order are expected in January. It will then be put before An Bord Pleanala, where objections will be heard.


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    #354
    quietsailor
    Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Has anyone seen drawings of what the road will LOOK like, not plans or abstract ideas?

    Could a dedicated bus lane be included and then the bus service can be improved just by not having to fight the other traffic.

    Edit: I found some better plans on the official website, when I get to a pc I'll upload them here but it looks like they aren't including bus lanes


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    #355
    Kevwoody
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Has anyone seen drawings of what the road will LOOK like, not plans or abstract ideas?

    Could a dedicated bus lane be included and then the bus service can be improved just by not having to fight the other traffic.

    Edit: I found some better plans on the official website, when I get to a pc I'll upload them here but it looks like they aren't including bus lanes


    Why would there be bus lanes??
    It's a motorway!


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    #356
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    quietsailor wrote: »
    Has anyone seen drawings of what the road will LOOK like, not plans or abstract ideas?

    Could a dedicated bus lane be included and then the bus service can be improved just by not having to fight the other traffic.

    Edit: I found some better plans on the official website, when I get to a pc I'll upload them here but it looks like they aren't including bus lanes

    only the 220x goes down carrs hill. the 220 goes through Douglas plus if the route stuck to the old road post-upgrade, it will see a benefit for lighter traffic anyways.


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    #357
    Nuf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Nuf


    I've just seen that the Anti M28 has been locked due to the rants of one poster. (also the reason for setting up the Anti thread in the first place)
    Now there is no where for dissenting voices to debate issues as we were told this thread is for pro posts only!
    Such a pity that it has come to this.
    Thanks for reading, I'm out.
    Nuf


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    #358
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Bye bye.


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    #359
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    Apologies in advance if I'm O/T, but having looked at the website provided by the so-called 'steering group' that route is completely impractical, it would force vehicles to do an extra 10-15 km to go from the tunnel to Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy, therefore everyone will continue to use the existing road and the problem does not go away.

    It actually is a good idea to have the road they're talking about (such a road would take a lot of pressure off the Douglas flyover and the magic roundabout) - but in addition to the proposed M28 route not in replacement of the proposed route.


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    #360
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    captainspeed wrote: »
    Apologies in advance if I'm O/T, but having looked at the website provided by the so-called 'steering group' that route is completely impractical, it would force vehicles to do an extra 10-15 km to go from the tunnel to Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy, therefore everyone will continue to use the existing road and the problem does not go away.

    It actually is a good idea to have the road they're talking about (such a road would take a lot of pressure off the Douglas flyover and the magic roundabout) - but in addition to the proposed M28 route not in replacement of the proposed route.
    If the new road was routed that way, it would be busy as far as Shannonpark where most of the vehicles would leave to take the existing N28 to connect with Bloomfield/the N40.

    Westbound/N71 bound traffic would use the new route but not enough traffic to justify it being a motorway, which it would have to be to conform to TEN-T regulations.


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    #361
    gerogerigegege
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭gerogerigegege


    If anyone would like a list of insults levelled at other posters by Marno21 feel free to pm me.
    This place is moderated by some seriously brainless losers
    Toodles


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